AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #18

[SweetT]

Elizabeth Smart. From wiki: "Furthermore, there was almost no significant forensic evidence such as clear fingerprints or DNA samples to help identify the abductor, hindering the investigation."

It's incredible to me that the shaggy un-bathed Mitchell could enter through a window over the kitchen sink and walk all over the Smart home without leaving a trace.

I find that unbelievable also but it happens. I think they may actually leave evidence, but then you have the needle in the haystack to find it, and if you find it it has to be obviously more than trace or touch evidence as we saw in the Anthony fiasco. One other thing, if the perp has no past history of anything, would their DNA even show up in the database?

 

[~n/t~]

I have a question maybe someone can answer. Isa was sleeping in a room that had been occupied by the (Cousin/uncle) up until that very night correct? Was this previously her room or was it new to her? I'm asking because if something was written in her closet it could have been from months prior when she slept in that room right? Or do we know if she used that room during the day.? Just asking.
I also have been giving the parents the benefit of the doubt as they have not shown me some tale tale signs of guilt as I have seen in the past, mostly ever changing stories. examples: Lisa Irwins parents/ Casey Anthony/Haleigh Cummings babysitter Misty. You get the picture.

There has been nothing confirmed that the cousin/uncle lived in that home.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

then why does mom and dad not do this? LE said they have not told mom and dad to be quiet and have encouraged them to speak to the media.....yet....mom and dad hide out.

really, im seeing SC & RC in the same light I saw the Irwins.....
instead of something or someone swaying me in the direction of mom and dad being innocent in all of this, things keep swaying me the other way. im still on the fence, but damn, i keep almost falling off to the side of mom and dad are guilty of something.....


ETA.....because this case now annoys me. mom and dad are STILL suspects - they have not been rulled out and they refuse to talk to media and answer questions or clear up rumours and still dont even have an attorney who can at least MAYBE answer questions or set some records straight....and still do not appear to be doing anything to help find their child (the vigil based on accounts was more about SC)....

WTF?! are they for real?


/rant

This is just my opinion but everytime they do speak out nothing is accomplished by it and it just creates more fodder or suspicion for some. Becky just spoke out at the vigil Sunday and that took on a life of its own and everything she said has been disected and berated to the inth degree.

The ones that do not believe them now would not believe them if they came out anyway even if they tried to quinch the media and public's 'want to know.' The ones that does believe them dont need for them to come out. For some as long as they continue to cooperate fully with LE that is good enough, imo.

Even though LE has encouraged them to speakout to keep the case in the news IMO LE has told them not to speak about the particulars of the case and it would be a barage of questions about things they wont answer to prevent impeding the investigation and then they would be heckled for not spilling it all.

Times have changed in recent years, imo. The media and the public will chew on a family and crush them in the ground night and day, 24/7, even more so now than they did in the Lunsford, Greone or Smart cases. Imo, automatically it is assumed it has to be a family member involved when a child goes missing.

I think they also know no pleading in the world is going to make the perp have a heart and bring Isa home after over a month. In this country I have never seen a case where the pleas of a family resulted in a safe return of the child.

Attorneys are expensive and if they think they dont need one ...they will not get one, imo. If either of them dared to hire attorney then guilt would been made out of that too.

Thank goodness in this country neither the media or the public have the power to find someone legally guilty under judicial standards. Now they do and can find them guilty in the court of public opinion whether they are guilty or not.

This isnt the first time the media or the public was just so darn sure the parents were guilty and it turned out not to be the case.

So I think they are damned if they do and damned if they dont so to save a lot of heckling they have decided to let LE handle the case. In the future one of them may change their mind and speak with the media. But I no longer judge parents who do not speak with the media because I have seen how innocent parents have been treated so poorly by the media when they did.

IMO

 

[SweetT]

I know if my child were kidnapped and there were an RSO within a mile of my home, my butt would have personally been to their homes knocking on their door, and walking around their homes listening to see if I heard my child there. I would most likely be in jail, but I wouldn't care, they would have to lock me up.

 

[Lark2]

So, I take it from reading the posts describing the presser..That previously theyd focused on interviewing the offenders that's victims were in the older age range of 16yoa and up?!?!!??
Please please please tell me that someone from the media jumped on this IMMEDIATELY at the presser and questioned what is in IMO unacceptable negligence on the part of whomevers decision it was to focus on offenders in age range 3times older than the victim?!?! Please tell me someone demanded to have this explained?!??

Smooth, you have that flipped around. First time, they interviewed all 540; second time, they focused on those who had a "proclivity" for youth 16 and YOUNGER.

Going back now to re-re-interview those whose crimes have dealt with a 10-and under range.

 

[Lark2]

I wish we could ban the "damned if they do and damned if they don't" cliche from this case, it's such a cop-out.

 

[mamamia54]

Smooth, you have that flipped around. First time, they interviewed all 540; second time, they focused on those who had a "proclivity" for youth 16 and YOUNGER.

Going back now to re-re-interview those whose crimes have dealt with a 10-and under range.

Now I'm wondering if the sex offender that lives 4 houses up from Isa's wasn't one that LE had been concentrating on, since it appears that he's a level 3 offender and his preference isn't young children.

 

[gliving]

I find that unbelievable also but it happens. I think they may actually leave evidence, but then you have the needle in the haystack to find it, and if you find it it has to be obviously more than trace or touch evidence as we saw in the Anthony fiasco. One other thing, if the perp has no past history of anything, would their DNA even show up in the database?

I don't guess it would. I've read statistics for how many times a sex offender molests before they're arrested and it was mind boggling.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

i wont touch on the mom/dad + media issue...i think ive ranted about it ad nauseum already lol

but LE said that whomever did this did a very good job at covering up any trace of themselves.

and you are right CSI is not real.....and there are tons of crime scenes that reveal hardly any evidence and some no evidence at all.

however, with that said, LE said they requested an extension on the search warrant....that tells us, IMO, that there is some evidence they have obtained.

along w/ that, mom and dad have not been ruled out....which means that the totality of circumstances (911 call, intereviews, evidence, behavior, etc etc) says that what LE knows does not allow LE to eliminate them. they have however stated that they have been able to eliminate others as being suspects. i believe these statements by LE say a lot.

w/ all that said, that is just my interpetation and probably means nothing. lol

I really dont think it is sinister that the parents cant be ruled out. They have no one to validate their alibi that they all were inside their home that night and asleep when Isa was taken.

I think that is why the Lunsford granparents werent ruled out or Ed Smart during the time the girls were missing and not yet found nor the perp.

IMO

 

[gliving]

I wish we could ban the "damned if they do and damned if they don't" cliche from this case, it's such a cop-out.

I'll give you that if we can ban ever mentioning the Casey Anthony case again. It always reads like a cliched cop out to me too. Just like Casey Anthony blah blah blah. LOL :seeya:

 

[SweetT]

I don't guess it would. I've read statistics for how many times a sex offender molests before they're arrested and it was mind boggling.

yes this is very true. I have personal experience of being molested myself, and my brother when we were little. This man went yrs without any jail time and is still out and about. Scary indeed! He is now however an RSO and prefers young children under 10, either sex. But he is not in AZ. Thank God!

 

[prima.facie]

I find that unbelievable also but it happens. I think they may actually leave evidence, but then you have the needle in the haystack to find it, and if you find it it has to be obviously more than trace or touch evidence as we saw in the Anthony fiasco. One other thing, if the perp has no past history of anything, would their DNA even show up in the database?

you are right too....

especially when dealing with class evidence (instead of individual evidence) such as say fibers......however, even though there is a fiber database accessable to techs, narrowing down WHO the fiber belongs to is not easy. but it has been done [Wayne WilliamsTrial was strongly centered around fibers http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/williams/trial_12.html)

to your DNA question. no. however, that is why NY is set to take DNA of anyone arrested...and forming a database (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/14/n...g-are-part-of-talks-on-major-albany-deal.html)

 

[Shelby2]

I wish we could ban the "damned if they do and damned if they don't" cliche from this case, it's such a cop-out.

It's true though.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Does someone recall the exact words spoken a few press conferences ago, something to the effect of "it is not what we know but what we can proof in court". TIA

I dont remember that but I have heard other LE say the same thing. They know they cant arrest someone based on what they may think.... they have to have the evidence that will hold up in a court of law pointing to the correct suspect.

LE knows they cant go on gut feelings or tunnel vision. This protects the innocent from being arrested for something they didnt do.

IMO

 

[SweetT]

you are right too....

especially when dealing with class evidence (instead of individual evidence) such as say fibers......however, even though there is a fiber database accessable to techs, narrowing down WHO the fiber belongs to is not easy. but it has been done [Wayne WilliamsTrial was strongly centered around fibers http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/williams/trial_12.html)

to your DNA question. no. however, that is why NY is set to take DNA of anyone arrested...and forming a database (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/14/n...g-are-part-of-talks-on-major-albany-deal.html)

Thanks for the info and good to know. This makes things a bit more complicated also, especially if the PERP has no prior record. Or their record is not in the US. Of course that is IF they find anything to begin with. All Perps start somewhere..they just dont get a record till they get caught.

 

[gliving]

I really dont think it is sinister that the parents cant be ruled out. They have no one to validate their alibi that they all were inside their home that night and asleep when Isa was taken.

I think that is why the Lunsford granparents werent ruled out or Ed Smart during the time the girls were missing and not yet found nor the perp.

IMO

LOL We are like a broken record on that one. How could the parents be ruled out unless someone can provide an alibi for them? And no one can provide an alibi for them, because they were home alone with their sleeping children.

So far no one has been able to name one other case where the parents were ruled out before the perp was found, unless there was another witness who saw what happened.

 

[~n/t~]

I really dont think it is sinister that the parents cant be ruled out. They have no one to validate their alibi that they all were inside their home that night and asleep when Isa was taken.

I think that is why the Lunsford granparents werent ruled out or Ed Smart during the time the girls were missing and not yet found nor the perp.

IMO

I think it's more than that. I don't know about Ed Smart but IIRC, grandma Lunsford failed a poly. IMO, one of these parents did too and perhaps they have other evidence that points to a possible involvement by one of them.

They seem to be running parallel investigations in this case. My problem after listening to that PC is some of the things he said made it sound like they were running in circles. Reinterviewing, redistributing flyers, revisting homes, etc etc. If they had something on the parents, they would be arrested by now. Why would they waste time and resources to go back to square one. It makes no sense.

Like I said earlier, I didn't get a good feeling at all. It sounds like they have nothing.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I wish we could ban the "damned if they do and damned if they don't" cliche from this case, it's such a cop-out.

Sorry...but its true.

They have spoken out and what have they gotten for doing so from most when they did?

So it isnt a cop-out.

It is today's reality.

 

[pinkfly]

I have a question maybe someone can answer. Isa was sleeping in a room that had been occupied by the (Cousin/uncle) up until that very night correct? Was this previously her room or was it new to her? I'm asking because if something was written in her closet it could have been from months prior when she slept in that room right? Or do we know if she used that room during the day.? Just asking.
I also have been giving the parents the benefit of the doubt as they have not shown me some tale tale signs of guilt as I have seen in the past, mostly ever changing stories. examples: Lisa Irwins parents/ Casey Anthony/Haleigh Cummings babysitter Misty. You get the picture.

Really SweetT...is this true? I had no idea that cousin/uncle had actually been staying in her room (or even in their house for sure).

Can you give me a link about this.....I guess I have not been reading close enough.

TIA

 

[mamamia54]

Sorry...but its true.

They have spoken out and what have they gotten for doing so from most when they did?

So it isnt a cop-out.

It is today's reality.

I really didn't have much of an opinion about them speaking out until the lastest vigil, and Becky more or less using it as a platforum not for her missing daughter but more for Sergio and support for him.