AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #20

[Prof]

Page 31 in evidence money owed talks about taking guns and pellet gun into evidence. No ballistics mentioned but no doubt they will or already have done.
No it is not unusual to have guns esp in AZ. I own 3 myself. But things happen with kids.

This is not the Celis home. This is the RSO's home.

 

[abstr]

The boys and Isa's rooms have a jack and jill bathroom between.
The den is not a bedroom as it has no closets.
The south eastern bedroom is therefore Isa's bedroom.

Do you have a "real" layout? How do you know this? Not being a smart*** but curious. The floor plans I have seen seem like they cannot be right.

 

[Prof]

If the Freedom/Info act covered these docs in this way...why wouldn't every case have to eventually release them? I know each state is different, but some cases go back two or more years and we've not seen a thing...surely the media would have tried...JMO

It wouldn't. AZ has a version of the Sunshine Law. Patty posted a link earlier in this thread I believe.
Let me see if I can find it.

ETA Patty's post was in thread 19

Here's the link to Arizona's public record law information
http://sunshinereview.org/index.php/Arizona_Public_Records_Law

Here's Patty's original post


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - AZ AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #19

 

[pieper4]

Silly, rewinds helps that aging memory loss stuff. I bet the scannerers might remember if it's narrowed down a little. xoxo

the dreaded 5:15 am tomorrow...

Ewww... 5:15?!? Ouch.

I don't know how to do rewinds. What I recall was a woman wanting to give up her kids, drunk at the time. Maybe non-related.

 

[Prof]

Part 4, page 63

I wonder if this is related to SG and why he is staying away from the kids? Just a thought, who knows maybe not ...

@ drinking binge? I had that thought when I read it...

 

[abstr]

Prof, Is there anything I need to know? I had to sleep ...lol...and now in the early AM no
one is up.....

 

[spoiledmom]

They shot down a strawman because that's not the scenario being postulated.

"Ransom" and "ransom notes" have never been mentioned to my knowledge. Rather, this has been described as a "revenge abduction" and/or "revenge killing" as retribution for debt to the drug cartel and/or a human smuggling operation. The general consensus is that at the heart of this case is some other kind of illegal activity, probably human or drug smuggling. This was articulated by KNST News Director Paul Birmingham on Nancy's show, and at the time neither Nancy or any of her other guests said a word to argue against it. Hmmmmm...

Finally, numerous current and former LE have stated off the record that Sergio has a huge debt to the drug cartel and that that is at the heart of the case. Again, nothing about "ransom" or "ransom note" (presumably because they may already be broke), just revenge.

There's nothing more lame than shooting down a strawman; I hope they enjoyed it.

You are correct. Since when did people on here start believing Nancy Grace and her experts?? She's the last person LE would fill in on this type of case. It would be out of revenge since no one is asking for money. Not to mention Sergio may not want to out himself if he has been involved in illegal activity. This is why he most likely is being watched.

 

[Prof]

Do you have a "real" layout? How do you know this? Not being a smart*** but curious. The floor plans I have seen seem like they cannot be right.

Right well I only have a footprint that I believe accurate from the images section of the county assessor site and then a floorplan one of our posters, Deanna, created from looking at plans and media descriptions.
I think this is pretty accurate though...

Here is the link to the footprint at county
http://www.asr.co.pima.az.us/web_images/asrt/PUBLIC/APEX/DATA/12803/0990-1.JPG

Here's Deanna's floorplan
I added some arrows and such for a discussion on an earlier thread

 

[abstr]

Right well I only have a footprint that I believe accurate from the images section of the county assessor site and then a floorplan one of our posters, Deanna, created from looking at plans and media descriptions.
I think this is pretty accurate though...

Here is the link to the footprint at county
http://www.asr.co.pima.az.us/web_images/asrt/PUBLIC/APEX/DATA/12803/0990-1.JPG

Here's Deanna's floorplan
I added some arrows and such for a discussion on an earlier thread

Thank you. I had to sleep and work and such and I have missed a lot.

 

[abstr]

Right well I only have a footprint that I believe accurate from the images section of the county assessor site and then a floorplan one of our posters, Deanna, created from looking at plans and media descriptions.
I think this is pretty accurate though...

Here is the link to the footprint at county
http://www.asr.co.pima.az.us/web_images/asrt/PUBLIC/APEX/DATA/12803/0990-1.JPG

Here's Deanna's floorplan
I added some arrows and such for a discussion on an earlier thread

Thanks...that floorplan does not assume where the kids were....I like that

 

[abstr]

I live in a 1950's house. We use rooms differently then the build suggested
We might have a room with no closets but it is a bedroom and that kid goes elsewhere for clothes......Some might if we were examined think we live oddly but it works for us and my kids wanted to move to the rooms with no closets.
I have a kid who had an entire floor to himself who moved to an 18 by11 room without a closet or private bath...he loves it

 

[butterfly7]

So helpful Dr! I'd forgotten about the suspicious activity map. And it's even possible she was put in a car at some point and the dogs continue to track the scent. (aren't dogs great)

Wow your maps give the neighbors name. The back alley neighbor's name is different than the name in the docs.

Also different with the tax assessor

 

[~n/t~]

They shot down a strawman because that's not the scenario being postulated.

"Ransom" and "ransom notes" have never been mentioned to my knowledge. Rather, this has been described as a "revenge abduction" and/or "revenge killing" as retribution for debt to the drug cartel and/or a human smuggling operation. The general consensus is that at the heart of this case is some other kind of illegal activity, probably human or drug smuggling. This was articulated by KNST News Director Paul Birmingham on Nancy's show, and at the time neither Nancy or any of her other guests said a word to argue against it. Hmmmmm...

Finally, numerous current and former LE have stated off the record that Sergio has a huge debt to the drug cartel and that that is at the heart of the case. Again, nothing about "ransom" or "ransom note" (presumably because they may already be broke), just revenge.

There's nothing more lame than shooting down a strawman; I hope they enjoyed it.

Yes they have been mentioned and both RC and SC denied receiving any demands. (IIRC it was the couch interview with local reporters). Also, IIRC, LE did deny it in one of the PC's.

Where are you getting your information about current and former LE that Sergio has a huge drug debt to a drug cartel?

I do not believe for one second that a drug cartel would abduct a 6 year old little girl because her parents had a drug debt they couldn't repay and it was a "revenge abduction or killing". They'd go after the adults!!

 

[Patty G]

Sure. But he NEVER said, "the father and HIS brother". He says "THE father and brother". I understand it to imply "the father (of the missing child) and brother (of the missing child)."

I agree with you on the father of Isa and the brother of Isa and I have always felt it was that way.

 

[BrownRice]

Did anyone find it curious why 1 of the kid brothers' names was blacked out on the report but the other wasn't? I'm sure it's nothing, but I thought it was odd.

A couple posts up, someone suggested SC may have been on a drinking binge and that was the reason he "voluntarily" removed himself from his family. Don't you think he'd be back by now? Unless you're an alcoholic (and I don't think we've seen ANY evidence of that?), if your kids were removed because of this, you'd STOP your binging to be with them, right? Weird.

 

[Patty G]

Be careful.... If you broach a subject that was addressed earlier in the case (like "20 days ago"), you may be jumped on for discussing "old" information.

About 99% of the time, everyone is more then willing to discuss information again for any member that is late coming into a case. We have had a few "bumps in the road" lately, but hopefully things will smooth out.

Don't ever be concerned to ask a question about something as there are plenty of members willing to assist you, and either post what was discussed earlier or provide a link to the information.

I know from past experience, if I come into a case late, I try and scan the threads to see what has been discussed and then end up asking questions regarding something that was discussed earlier.

 

[insatiable]

Did anyone find it curious why 1 of the kid brothers' names was blacked out on the report but the other wasn't? I'm sure it's nothing, but I thought it was odd.

A couple posts up, someone suggested SC may have been on a drinking binge and that was the reason he "voluntarily" removed himself from his family. Don't you think he'd be back by now? Unless you're an alcoholic (and I don't think we've seen ANY evidence of that?), if your kids were removed because of this, you'd STOP your binging to be with them, right? Weird.

I thought the blacked out name of Isabel and the one brother but not the other brother to be very odd too.

 

[~n/t~]

I just wanted to add one more thought to the drug cartel theory. Don't you think if this case was indeed drug cartel connected that it would have been handled a lot differently than it is now?

I am certain if that were true, Isabel's life would've been in extreme danger and there is no way LE would risk having daily Press Conferences or releasing any document even if they don't reveal much of anything, imo

Not that her life is in any less danger but IMO this whole investigation would've been handled a heck of a lot differently especially if there were ransom demands, imo Perhaps involve undercover agents to get to Isabel or other agency involvement.

This crime, the way I see it, is just like any other case. A missing child abducted by a registered sex offender or harm done to her by immediate or extended family for whatever reason. Be it accidental or sex related.

:moo:

 

[~n/t~]

Did anyone find it curious why 1 of the kid brothers' names was blacked out on the report but the other wasn't? I'm sure it's nothing, but I thought it was odd.

A couple posts up, someone suggested SC may have been on a drinking binge and that was the reason he "voluntarily" removed himself from his family. Don't you think he'd be back by now? Unless you're an alcoholic (and I don't think we've seen ANY evidence of that?), if your kids were removed because of this, you'd STOP your binging to be with them, right? Weird.

I did also but I also noticed they blacked out some witnesses names but not others. Not sure what that all means, if anything.

 

[scout35]

If she is alive in town she would have to be hidden well because her picture is everywhere, on every public door you enter, drive thru windows etc. I feel like if she was taken over the border she has a better chance.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

When I was about 13, in the early 90s, there was a little girl who was kidnapped from a local arcade/indoor amusement park. They searched for her for 16 days. It turns out that she was living in a secret bunker (built especially for her) underneath the home of a very close family friend. Thankfully, she was found alive.

ETA: I forgot to say that she never did make it to the arcade.