AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #20

[Anita Richman]

About 99% of the time, everyone is more then willing to discuss information again for any member that is late coming into a case. We have had a few "bumps in the road" lately, but hopefully things will smooth out.

Don't ever be concerned to ask a question about something as there are plenty of members willing to assist you, and either post what was discussed earlier or provide a link to the information.

I know from past experience, if I come into a case late, I try and scan the threads to see what has been discussed and then end up asking questions regarding something that was discussed earlier.

I agree with you, Patty. In addition, YOU are extremely helpful in explaining things to fellow posters and pointing them in the right direction for answers. Between you and Prof and several others, I feel you're the Deans of the Isa thread.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Well i can see the witness changing his statement because it now went public
i do not believe the officer changed the mans statement! what would be the reason? I think the man said what he felt and thought it would remain private!

JMO

I can actually see that happen. In other cases witnesses who were interviewed complained of the same thing.

What is odd about this interview LE did not even tape it. If they really thought it was something important that this man was saying they would have taped it to memorialize his own words.

He is not dumb, imo. He knows in cases like this what he said doesnt remain private. If that were the case then no one that ever gave interviews to LE could/would wind up as witnesses in any case.

I believe this coach. He came right out to the media where LE could hear/read it. He wanted it known that he was displeased with LE for changing what he really told them, imo.


IMO

 

[Anita Richman]

For the locals, do you have city water or well water?

City water

 

[desertgal]

I have city water and I live outside city limits

 

[mamamia54]

City water

Then does that city water leave any rust stains on surfaces?

Adding, or say at the bottom of a shower curtain, where water would run off and to the bottom and leave reddish stains?

 

[Anita Richman]

Then does that city water leave any rust stains on surfaces?

No. An exception might be older, metal pipes. On the newer homes here they use pvc piping, which alleviates the rust.

 

[Prof]

I *think* I recall this scenario coming across the scanner... But I don't recall the date. Drats. Aging sucks.

The date on the report is 4 25 12 @ 2:00 am
I did not find anything...

 

[mamamia54]

I just found this, it's on the Tuscon Gov site -

Rust

Most rust issues now are related to the fact that many homes and businesses built in the 1950s and 1960s have old and rusty galvanized private plumbing. Typically the rust color is noted by homeowners after returning from a vacation, or a few days away from home. This is caused by water sitting in rusty piping for a period of time. Businesses could encounter rust colored water on Monday mornings, after being closed for the weekend. If this is the case, open taps to flush the rust color from your system. If flushing does not resolve the issue, contact Tucson Water to investigate if there is a distribution system problem. To eliminate the rusting issue, replace all old galvanized and rusting pipe in your private plumbing system.

Rust colored water at one location, such as the bathtub, is likely due to a single rusting galvanized nipple behind the faucet/nozzle. A plumber can replace the galvanized nipple with a bronze nipple.
http://cms3.tucsonaz.gov/water/colored_water

Now I think that somewhere here I read that some of those homes are older and from the 50's but Isa's home was built in 2007? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Are we permitted to discuss the scribbling found on the walls of the closet and door jam?

I have thought about this alot and considered a few instances where we have written on the walls.

Charting growth chart of your kids. is one. I have done that!

Besides leaving graffiti initials and drawings in hallowed places in my past, places where i wanted to leave my mark and I knew I was leaving. hmmm( camp)

I was discussing this with my fiance and he told me when his family moved they found a list he had written and hid behind his bureau from when he was about 6. It said:
My Dad Loves Me - Yes- or NO and underneath there were like 12 checks under " NO".

:-(

His Dad ( later reformed- but met a horrible end)...was an alcoholic who had violent outbursts( beat him and his mother); and, also made him carry out many physically demanding ( and dangerous) adult jobs at extremely young ages.

I would be really curious to know what was written or drawn on the walls. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a combination.

I feel so sad and worried about her.

Also, don't you wish there was a document " dump" in some of these other cases? For example from Kansas City PD?

Prayers for the Victims, Prayers for the Missing.

I cant see anything suspicious about a child writing or drawing on the walls including in their closets. All 4 of our girls did it. Strange our only son did not but is the most artistic one of our children. But for some reason they love to express their feelings by using crayons on walls. They would draw stick people representing our family and then draw flowers and hearts and add our names under it (some misspelled lol) or 'I love mommy and daddy." etc.

Our 5 year old granddaughter is very bad about drawing/printing on the walls. If we give her crayons we make sure they are the type that can be washed off. Her mom said it is worse now because she is expecting a baby sister in September and she is drawing pictures of a baby and telling the new baby she loves her. LOL!

I did buy a dresser once from a yard sale to refurbish it and saw that someone had carved into part of the wood the words "I hate you.' I always felt it was just a kid that was mad at their parents for some reason or another at the time.

So I dont think Isa was being a Nancy Drew and writing messages on the wall that have anything to do with her kidnapping, imo.

IMO

 

[Eileen730]

I cant see anything suspicious about a child writing or drawing on the walls including in their closets. All 4 of our girls did it. Strange our only son did not but is the most artistic one of our children. But for some reason they love to express their feelings by using crayons on walls. They would draw stick people representing our family and then draw flowers and hearts and add our names under it (some misspelled lol) or 'I love mommy and daddy." etc.

Our 5 year old granddaughter is very bad about drawing/printing on the walls. If we give her crayons we make sure they are the type that can be washed off. Her mom said it is worse now because she is expecting a baby sister in September and she is drawing pictures of a baby and telling the new baby she loves her. LOL!

I did buy a dresser once from a yard sale to refurbish it and saw that someone had carved into part of the wood the words "I hate you.' I always felt it was just a kid that was mad at their parents for some reason or another at the time.

So I dont think Isa was being a Nancy Drew and writing messages on the wall that have anything to do with her kidnapping, imo.

IMO

I think she drew pictures!
Do not need words with pictures!

 

[Eileen730]

I do not think Isabel was Kidnapped.

 

[iSleuth]

I cant see anything suspicious about a child writing or drawing on the walls including in their closets. All 4 of our girls did it. ....

So I dont think Isa was being a Nancy Drew and writing messages on the wall that have anything to do with her kidnapping, imo.

IMO[/QUOTE

Agreed- I don't think she was being Nancy Drew about her "kidnapping" either necessarily. ( messages take time)
But then again, I am doubtful about the whole -stranger- abduction theory in this case.

I do think there is a lot to the idea " from the mouths of babes" which may be IC's only witness.

 

[desertgal]

Then does that city water leave any rust stains on surfaces?

Adding, or say at the bottom of a shower curtain, where water would run off and to the bottom and leave reddish stains?

My home was built in the 70s, no rust issues, but that is out east of town

 

[mamamia54]

I do not think Isabel was Kidnapped.

Then what do you feel happened to her?

 

[Patty G]

Broken quotes are because the ending quote is missing a bracket = ]

Should show at the end >>>> [/QUOTE]

 

[iSleuth]

Broken quotes are because the ending quote is missing a bracket = ]

Should show at the end >>>>

[/QUOTE]

So Sorry

:rocker:

 

[Patty G]

So Sorry

:rocker:

.................................

Just trying to be helpful as I learned the hard way myself and couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong.

 

[panthera]

I do not think this has anything to do with money or cartels!
No strangers!

Agree. Also, I don't believe Isabel was alive when she left the house.



MOO

 

[Prof]

As far as the condensed timeline the morning of the 911 call.
I am gathering from the reports that 1. the man in the truck called 911 for the older brother /gave him a ride back home (2 blocks) 2. SC knows about the next door neighbor who heard voices as that is part of his account that morning to LE
3. The real uncles LR/RR came on the scene after police arrived.

The report that has SC relaying the neighbor's voices story has bugged me, since the family were not allowed to search after police arrived, and the uncles arrived after the police arrived, so how could he have told LE that? Could it have been SC who knocked on the neighbor's door at 8 am? She could have been confused, or simply never paid enough attention to who was who around that house. This would be one possibility to solve some timeline issues for me.

I would imagine this in my scenario of the timeline....

SC goes to wake Isa and finds her not there
He goes to the boys room and wakes them
Oldest runs into Isa's room and notices the window and screen
SC and odest run out to back alley where they look up and down
SC knocks on first door he sees in a panic -- neighbor's door
She tells SC about the voices she heard
Isa's older brother runs runs east down alley looking for Isa SC calls RC at work
SC goes back in home and calls RC ---
SC calls 911 @ 8:14
Oldest runs into woman from 13th and man in truck--- man calls 911
Man in truck gives oldest a ride home...
When police arrive RC, SC and the boys are all there
The family remains together for the day in company of LE



I noted that the witness at the store, EC, reportedly witnessed the young brother looking for Isa an hour after the 911 call (9:15 or so) That does not really jive with the reports I have seen, as from what I saw the family was not allowed to search after police arrived, so I really don't know how this can all factor in. http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-tucson-girl-isabel-celis-surveillance-videos-hold/story?id=16210060

 

[mamamia54]

What do you think about the differing times that Sergio tells LE, Prof, about when he tells them that he woke up at one time, and laid there for awhile and what time Becky left for work? I posted two of them last evening. If need be I'll find them again.