AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #22

[panthera]

Great post!!

Our dogs bark if someone is walking up the road. Mind you, they are in the garage with all the doors closed, no visual line of sight. The road is around 75' from the garage door (we are rural). I'm amazed and thankful for their sensory perceptions. I would pity the fool who tried to break into our home.

Most dogs will alert to someone strange in their territory, especially if they are outside in the yard when someone tries to enter it. If this was an abduction I tend to believe the dogs were inside, in the master bedroom or didn't have access to Isabel's room.

MOO

 

[Knox]

I keep re reading the document dump and was very curious about a few things.

!) the attention paid to the Pikes and their testimony - they said there was alot of activity that week due to trash removal and there were a few unknown vehicles ( especially that tuesday) coming and going frequently- on the alley. a) 90s mini van with tinted windows b)ford focus with tinted windows. ( TPD 1204210265) are those normal trash/bulk removal vehicles for Az?

2) also the visits to RR family the views out the window - record of text messages- and they took the telephone into evidence.

they also found several things( all redacted) behind both Pike's and R's homes.
:waitasec:

In regards to the bulky item curbside cleanup you mentioned. When our local event is held, people cruise neighborhoods looking for items they can reuse. I was at my son's house in town, they had put a loveseat and an old end table at the curb. A young couple in a van pulled up, loaded them and took off. Perhaps some of the extra traffic that week was similar to what I described above.

 

[azmary]

Most dogs will alert to someone strange in their territory, especially if they are outside in the yard when someone tries to enter it. If this was an abduction I tend to believe the dogs were inside, in the master bedroom or didn't have access to Isabel's room.

MOO

The neighbor stated this was not the normal barking but more of an urgent type of barking at 0630. she also talks about the dogs being outside.
At 4:36 she talks about the barking.
But they could have been in at night, who knows
http://www.youtube.com/v/x-1gFSQ3ot0&fs=1&source=uds&autoplay=1

 

[AzDaisyCrazy]

In regards to the bulky item curbside cleanup you mentioned. When our local event is held, people cruise neighborhoods looking for items they can reuse. I was at my son's house in town, they had put a loveseat and an old end table at the curb. A young couple in a van pulled up, loaded them and took off. Perhaps some of the extra traffic that week was similar to what I described above.

I would agree completely with this. Whenever it is bulky time, there is significantly more traffic in the neighborhood. This sometimes starts about a week ahead of the actual pick up date, since people know that items will start being put out.

In terms of what "vehicles" pick up the bulky trash, it is still a garbage truck, but there's a little yellow tractor/lift going around with it that helps to scoop up items and dump them, etc.

 

[liz b.]

I did some searching and the exact quote was: "We cannot tell you the gratitude and the level of prayer our little girl has brought to this world. With the exception of 9 11, I cannot remember a worldwide chain of prayer that has been so significant."

Now...does Sergio truly believe that? Or is he referencing 9/11 because he wants people to think that?

He's clever with words,this man... Very agile thinker...MOO In Spanish, I believe the word best used to describe him would be "listo "... This is JMO...

 

[Knox]

I researched whether or not the Bring Isa Home foundation/fund has applied for 501c3 tax exempt status, and they have not. The TCM is evidently handling donations to the Isa campaign through their already-established tax-exempt foundation. I can't speak to how donations at the volunteer center are handled or how they are being dispersed.

I'm sure that anyone who wishes further information about their contribution should be able to obtain it through the TCM foundation. If I were to send a check to the Bring Isa Home fund, I would expect to receive an acknowledgment for my donation as well as a statement about how the money would be utilized, especially if my contribution is specifically ear-marked for a particular use. :moo:

BBM-I feel the exact opposite. When I donate to a cause I never expect an acknowledgement, nor an accounting. I have faith, that the money is being used in a way that is beneficial to whatever I am contributing to. If it's not, it doesn't negate what my personal intent was when giving. I've donated to the Lindsey Baum and Nancy Moyer funds. Once the check leaves my hands I don't feel compelled to track it. :moo:

 

[iSleuth]

Most dogs will alert to someone strange in their territory, especially if they are outside in the yard when someone tries to enter it. If this was an abduction I tend to believe the dogs were inside, in the master bedroom or didn't have access to Isabel's room.

MOO

I have just recently moved from a rural to very suburban area. I 've depended on my dog barking and when he is not there - I really notice. ( my dog bell) It has been interesting noticing his changed behavior as he has had to reduce his barking and reasons for barking to " protect" a smaller area.

In the rural neighborhood the dogs would bark back and forth across 2 - 4- even 6-acres property lines- like the " twilight : bark in " 101 dalmations/ or was it all dogs go to heaven. I forget.

Anyway. Now, in our smaller neigborhood DJ ( our dog) watches our house and the two houses directly across the street ( his street) One house has a small day care center there. And he knows every car and bus that comes and goes. And he has different barks for strangers. There is no doubt he knows and reacts to comings and goings around here. And he is only one ( great ) doggie.

I would imagine all those dogs in that neighborhood had twilight barks and were watchdogs. Why have humans had dogs? it is primal.

So I've been thinking...of the saying. "If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it , does it make a sound?

Maybe SC was out. not passed out on the couch. maybe he went " OUT" maybe someone who had been watching IC knew his comings and goings and - planned it ---and

maybe that's why he sounds so...tired and iffy in the 911call( not hysterical and panicked) maybe that's why he has voluntarily given up visits!?

maybe- He wasn't there and that's when....isa was...."abducted"

Just thinking...did i really say that outloud? that has been the only time I have managed to conjure a scenario where there was a non- family abduction.

:fence:

 

[liz b.]

I have just recently moved from a rural to very suburban area. I 've depended on my dog barking and when he is not there - I really notice. ( my dog bell) It has been interesting noticing his changed behavior as he has had to reduce his barking and reasons for barking to " protect" a smaller area.

In the rural neighborhood the dogs would bark back and forth across 2 - 4- even 6-acres property lines- like the " twilight : bark in " 101 dalmations/ or was it all dogs go to heaven. I forget.

Anyway. Now, in our smaller neigborhood DJ ( our dog) watches our house and the two houses directly across the street ( his street) One house has a small day care center there. And he knows every car and bus that comes and goes. And he has different barks for strangers. There is no doubt he knows and reacts to comings and goings around here. And he is only one ( great ) doggie.

I would imagine all those dogs in that neighborhood had twilight barks and were watchdogs. Why have humans had dogs? it is primal.

So I've been thinking...of the saying. "If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it , does it make a sound?

Maybe SC was out. not passed out on the couch. maybe he went " OUT" maybe someone who had been watching IC knew his comings and goings and - planned it ---and

maybe that's why he sounds so...tired and iffy in the 911call( not hysterical and panicked) maybe that's why he has voluntarily given up visits!?

maybe- He wasn't there and that's when....isa was...."abducted"

Just thinking...did i really say that outloud? that has been the only time I have managed to conjure a scenario where there was a non- family abduction.

:fence:

SC has "voluntarily given up visits " ? I thought he had a no contact order placed on him,which he chose not to contest ? No contact, as in no face to face contact,no phone calls, no emails...no contact... MOO

JMO

 

[panthera]

The neighbor stated this was not the normal barking but more of an urgent type of barking at 0630. she also talks about the dogs being outside.
At 4:36 she talks about the barking.
But they could have been in at night, who knows
http://www.youtube.com/v/x-1gFSQ3ot0&fs=1&source=uds&autoplay=1

Assuming for a minute they were inside during the night, then perhaps let outside when RC got up to go to work, it could be the barking was due to someone (stranger) being in the back yard earlier and the dogs picked up the scent. Just a thought.

MOO

 

[Knox]

He's clever with words,this man... Very agile thinker...MOO In Spanish, I believe the word best used to describe him would be "listo "... This is JMO...

My guys at work use listo differently. They say "listo to vamanose"? (ready to go?).

I do agree with you though, he is smooth.

 

[iSleuth]

SC has "voluntarily given up visits " ? I thought he had a no contact order placed on him,which he chose not to contest ? No contact, as in no face to face contact,no phone calls, no emails...no contact... MOO

JMO

not sure....yes, I guess. Not sure if that changes or sheds light on the idea of my previous thoughts. = probably is same. As most everyone has guessed I am a supporter of @home accident /staged abduction theory.

But- about the CPS...I feel as if i have heard/ read there was some Voluntary aspect to the CPS involvement.

 

[liz b.]

My guys at work use listo differently. They say "listo to vamanose"? (ready to go?).

I do agree with you though, he is smooth.

In laws are Cuban Americans, in Miami and Puerto Rico. And your word choice of "smooth " is exactly how they mean it when they call someone listo...

MOO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Regarding the Greone case, wasn't the whole family aware of Duncan in the house? (maybe I'm wrong)...their dogs barking wouldn't have mattered if they were all aware of the intruder in the house and everyone was murdered. (not up on specifics of that crime)

I've not heard if the Celis' dogs were for protection or just as fun loving pets. Personally my 3 dogs are for both...the protection is more of an alerting, not as an attack, but most of all as fun loving loyal family members (aka pets!). (My beagle can smell a stranger a mile away and my boxers would back up with the brute…. actually my boxers might just pick up their squeeker toys and greet them with a wagging nub tail!)

Speaking for myself, my dogs have different barks for different situations…I know the barks that my dogs have when there is a person/car they aren't familiar with…but that is just my own experience.

Regarding daylight barking neighbor and the perps not wanting to bring attention to themselves…if it was an inside job (not saying it is…just an "if") and a quick decision to make it look like a kidnapping needed to be done, maybe that conversation was in the Cs yard near the window manipulation. (many different scenarios come to mind for that one)
Lastly, the neighbor could have looked out the window but she didn't. She said she was tired and went back to sleep. Hind sight is 20-20.

This will remain a puzzle piece that I'll keep trying to fit in!

MOO as always!

No the adults werent aware he had invaded the home until he was inside. In fact he had Brenda go get the children from their bedrooms and bring them to the living room.

He commented on the dogs that were roaming loose in the home when he crept in and no one at that time knew he was even there. He caught the adults by surprise. The dogs did not bark......they did not alert the people inside that an intruder was inside. He murdered three people before leaving with Shasta and Dylan. Slade their older brother even made it outside with horrible head injuries from the hammer JED used and Duncan pulled him back inside and killed him.

You are right. The neighbor did not look out the window but the two men talking at daybreak while the dogs were barking wouldnt know that.

IMO

 

[buggsmom]

No the adults werent aware he had invaded the home until he was inside. In fact he had Brenda go get the children from their bedrooms and bring them to the living room.

He commented on the dogs that were roaming loose in the home when he crept in and no one at that time knew he was even there. He caught the adults by surprise. The dogs did not bark......they did not alert the people inside that an intruder was inside. He murdered three people before leaving with Shasta and Dylan. Slade their older brother even made it outside with horrible head injuries from the hammer JED used and Duncan pulled him back inside and killed him.

You are right. The neigbor did not look out the window but the two men talking at daybreak while the dogs were barking wouldnt know that.

IMO

Thanks for filling me in... what a horrible horrible crime.

 

[Madeleine74]

SC not being home that night would not create a CPS situation. As long as one parent was home with the children, and according to what we've been told, RC was certainly home that night after the softball game.

No, there's some other reason for it.

 

[Donjeta]

I have just recently moved from a rural to very suburban area. I 've depended on my dog barking and when he is not there - I really notice. ( my dog bell) It has been interesting noticing his changed behavior as he has had to reduce his barking and reasons for barking to " protect" a smaller area.

In the rural neighborhood the dogs would bark back and forth across 2 - 4- even 6-acres property lines- like the " twilight : bark in " 101 dalmations/ or was it all dogs go to heaven. I forget.

Anyway. Now, in our smaller neigborhood DJ ( our dog) watches our house and the two houses directly across the street ( his street) One house has a small day care center there. And he knows every car and bus that comes and goes. And he has different barks for strangers. There is no doubt he knows and reacts to comings and goings around here. And he is only one ( great ) doggie.

I would imagine all those dogs in that neighborhood had twilight barks and were watchdogs. Why have humans had dogs? it is primal.

So I've been thinking...of the saying. "If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it , does it make a sound?

Maybe SC was out. not passed out on the couch. maybe he went " OUT" maybe someone who had been watching IC knew his comings and goings and - planned it ---and

maybe that's why he sounds so...tired and iffy in the 911call( not hysterical and panicked) maybe that's why he has voluntarily given up visits!?

maybe- He wasn't there and that's when....isa was...."abducted"

Just thinking...did i really say that outloud? that has been the only time I have managed to conjure a scenario where there was a non- family abduction.

:fence:

If he was out that night, why didn't he just say so? It wouldn't have been neglect since he didn't leave his children alone, but with their perfectly capable mom.

 

[white rabbit]

Isn't Susan a guest on WS Radio from time to time? Didn't realize we could not link to her blog. Maybe it's because she is linked to PH, I know he is not linkable here?

i was just giving a compliment. :nevermind:

 

[marazul]

In laws are Cuban Americans, in Miami and Puerto Rico. And your word choice of "smooth " is exactly how they mean it when they call someone listo...

MOO

Yes, IMCO ('C'=Cuban), Listo means "ready" but is slang for "smooth, sharp".

 

[azmary]

Assuming for a minute they were inside during the night, then perhaps let outside when RC got up to go to work, it could be the barking was due to someone (stranger) being in the back yard earlier and the dogs picked up the scent. Just a thought.

MOO

That is a real possibility IMO. Maybe the Screen set them off not being on the window. imo

 

[katydid23]

If he was out that night, why didn't he just say so? It wouldn't have been neglect since he didn't leave his children alone, but with their perfectly capable mom.

Maybe he was somewhere he was not supposed to be?