AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #24

[oceanblueeyes]

I could analize the picture of the family all night but won't. I'll take my first thought and keep it to myself.

The family doesn't want to talk about it (back together or not per the news)..that to me means they still aren't all together. An agreement may have been made like with the first vigil that allowed SC behind the gate to peek over. This time they have made progress and one son lets him put his hand on his shoulder....and so on.

To be seperated from your sons per a voluntary agreement is no simple matter. Not in the least. Tiny steps...

I really dont understand why some believe the Celis family would want to talk about private matters to the media or somehow owes any outsider an explanation. Why would they tell the media when it isnt the media's business anyway? It has absolutely nothing to do with finding their daughter, Isa.

I can understand them saying 'no comment.'

And I do think he is back fulltime with his family.

IMO

 

[SmoothOperator]

I really dont understand why some believe the Celis family would want to talk about private matters to the media or somehow owes any outsider an explanation. Why would they tell the media when it isnt the media's business anyway? It has absolutely nothing to do with finding their daughter, Isa.

I can understand them saying 'no comment.'

And I do think he is back fulltime with his family.

IMO

Moo of course is that he's been back with the family full time just like several commented about over a month ago.. I know that what immediately stood out to me and I noted by posting about it, was the fact that LE specifically had a sudden change in what up until that point had been firmly consistent answer when asked about the status of the voluntary agreement of Sergio being away from the boys.. Up until June LE were very open and consistent in answering with a firm yes, the voluntary agreement is still in place..

Their sudden change in answering that same exact question in June from the firm yes, it's still in place... To the very different answer of No Comment.. IMO that spoke volumes to me that there had definitely been a change of some type that had taken place.. As we all know this coincidentally was at the same time the numerous rumors were flying that people had seen Sergio with the boys.. It was my opinion then and remains my opinion now that this definitely was nO mere coincidence but rather was indicative that whatever cause for the voluntary agreement btwn the family and CPS for Sergio to temporarily be away from the boys.. That it had been resolved and Sergio had already been reunited with boys..

That opinion is only further cemented with the family now publicly showing they are united.. Not only does the family not owe us "explanations", nor even comments regarding the situation.. So, too neither do LE owe us any explanations or comments on the subject.. Hence exactly why back in June that LE new answer when questioned about the status of the agreement was NO COMMENT..

Much like so many other issues in this case LE feel it extremely necessary to keep it out of the public knowledge thereby stating they'll not be commenting.. So, too is it the same for the Celis family in that why if LE are not willing to speak about and share particulars and details of this case why in the world would the parents be expected to blab about those same closely guarded details.. They wouldn't and they shouldn't..

I believe Sergio has been back with the family full time for quite a while now and am happy ATLEAST one small stressor has thereby been relieved for all of them , especially the boys.. I pray that LE soon finds or receives what it is they need in order to make forward movement in this case and that ultimately and most importantly they find and bring Isa home(even tho, I fully realize that likely means only to be brought home for her to be properly laid to rest as her family so sees fitting).. Unless of course our precious little Isa could be one of the 1 in a million miracles like Elizabeth.. Either way I pray for resolution and am happy that ATLEAST this family is able to be together to lean on one another in a time of such tragedy and stress..

 

[Lark2]

I really dont understand why some believe the Celis family would want to talk about private matters to the media or somehow owes any outsider an explanation. Why would they tell the media when it isnt the media's business anyway? It has absolutely nothing to do with finding their daughter, Isa.
IMO

An explanation is the least of what this family is going to owe the "public" when this whole charade comes crashing down.

As to whether or not they owe the media an explanation for anything, remember that the media is working for the "public", and the "public" is supplying the funds to investigate an "abduction" of Isabel Celis.

Since the public is footing the bill, they are entitled to answers.

Along those lines, many doubt the whole "abduction" scenario and suspect these parents of involvement. Thus, I would think it would be in their best interest to inform the media of any developments that could help clear them of suspicion, including the lifting of the CPS order and the passing of lie detector tests.

 

[Dr. Know?]

Just my opinion but it looked like the family was joyous to see each other. The boys somewhat timid but dad put his hand on their shoulder and all of them smiled & patted each other on the back or shoulder like they had just been reunited again. It's a step. Whatever is good for the boys per the law & CPS is good enough for me. I hope it's announced but haven't heard a word from CPS. Rebecca said it was up to them to decide or make a statement & they wouldn't or couldn't. So it was a step, a privilege for Sergio to me.

I like seeing the boys happy though. I'm sure if he's still restricted, CPS will do what's right. I also hope FBI is watching with their BA's.

 

[TxLady2]

An explanation is the least of what this family is going to owe the "public" when this whole charade comes crashing down.

As to whether or not they owe the media an explanation for anything, remember that the media is working for the "public", and the "public" is supplying the funds to investigate an "abduction" of Isabel Celis.

Since the public is footing the bill, they are entitled to answers.

Along those lines, many doubt the whole "abduction" scenario and suspect these parents of involvement. Thus, I would think it would be in their best interest to inform the media of any developments that could help clear them of suspicion, including the lifting of the CPS order and the passing of lie detector tests.

That's not entirely true. The public does not completely finance these investigations. Much of the funds come from money appropriated from the state, and some of it comes from drug busts, or from the sale of property seized by LE during other cases... cars, boats, even homes.
But IMO, no matter where it comes from, these families do not "owe" anybody anything... least of all the media.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Regardless of whether tax payer money is going toward paying LE salary it by no means makes any citizen whatsoever privy to details of an on going criminal investigation..

As for private citizens who CHOOSE to give their own private money via DONATIONS to the Isa fund is totally seperate and unrelated to the investigation of the Isabel Celis abduction and certainly doesn't somehow buy a citizen the right to information of an ongoing criminal investigation..

 

[iSleuth]

If SC was back with the family full-time/part time, and the family were cleared- believe me- we would know it. And they would have a comment. and so would LE.

The Celis family would be yelling it from rooftops.

To Me- body language in the videos show a family reunited for an occasion "united for the cause" sort of thing.
Yes-affection was evident -here and there- particularly from SC which is more evidence that it was a type of visitation.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

An explanation is the least of what this family is going to owe the "public" when this whole charade comes crashing down.

As to whether or not they owe the media an explanation for anything, remember that the media is working for the "public", and the "public" is supplying the funds to investigate an "abduction" of Isabel Celis.

Since the public is footing the bill, they are entitled to answers.

Along those lines, many doubt the whole "abduction" scenario and suspect these parents of involvement. Thus, I would think it would be in their best interest to inform the media of any developments that could help clear them of suspicion, including the lifting of the CPS order and the passing of lie detector tests.

I know you are referring to this "charade" as being a hoax, but if that's true, it will be so awkward or uneventful (not sure what word to use) when the truth comes out, because most Americans haven't heard anything about this case in months. I bet most people's first reactions would be, "What case was that again?" That doesn't mean that it's not a hoax, just that I'm not sure what the family is thinking with the execution of this plan.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

An explanation is the least of what this family is going to owe the "public" when this whole charade comes crashing down.

As to whether or not they owe the media an explanation for anything, remember that the media is working for the "public", and the "public" is supplying the funds to investigate an "abduction" of Isabel Celis.

Since the public is footing the bill, they are entitled to answers.

Along those lines, many doubt the whole "abduction" scenario and suspect these parents of involvement. Thus, I would think it would be in their best interest to inform the media of any developments that could help clear them of suspicion, including the lifting of the CPS order and the passing of lie detector tests.

They are not entitled to ask personal questions that has absolutely nothing to do with finding Isa.

What charade? Do you have a link to something relevant to this case that I have missed? I have heard nothing about any charade.

Their involvement isnt suspect to me. I do not believe nor have I ever believed they have any involvement in Isa's disappearance.

Why should they inform the media? Since when does the media find someone innocent or guilty? As long as they continue to cooperate with TPD, and we have heard nothing to the contary, that is all they owe anyone.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

If SC was back with the family full-time/part time, and the family were cleared- believe me- we would know it. And they would have a comment. and so would LE.

The Celis family would be yelling it from rooftops.

To Me- body language in the videos show a family reunited for an occasion "united for the cause" sort of thing.
Yes-affection was evident -here and there- particularly from SC which is more evidence that it was a type of visitation.

How do we know that? Not everyone runs to the media when they pass a poly. Mark Lunsford never talked about the poly he took nor the results. I imagine he thought it was no one's business but his and LEs and he would have been right.

The police have already said they are not going to comment on the CPS agreement.......one way or the other and they wont. LE also never comments on any polygraph results given either whether the person passes or failes.

IMO

 

[elmomom]

An explanation is the least of what this family is going to owe the "public" when this whole charade comes crashing down.

As to whether or not they owe the media an explanation for anything, remember that the media is working for the "public", and the "public" is supplying the funds to investigate an "abduction" of Isabel Celis.

Since the public is footing the bill, they are entitled to answers.

Along those lines, many doubt the whole "abduction" scenario and suspect these parents of involvement. Thus, I would think it would be in their best interest to inform the media of any developments that could help clear them of suspicion, including the lifting of the CPS order and the passing of lie detector tests.

The only media that somewhat "works for the public" is NPR and other public broadcast media, but even there, they work for their members and not for the public at large. Regular media works for its advertisers, plain and simple. That translates into ratings. If the case doesn't command high enough ratings it isn't going to get the scrutiny that you seem to believe it should.
And, no I do not feel anyone is owed any explanation whatsoever. I don't want to hear rumors or speculation by LE. If there is a case against anyone, make it in court, not in the media.

 

[TxLady2]

If SC was back with the family full-time/part time, and the family were cleared- believe me- we would know it. And they would have a comment. and so would LE.

The Celis family would be yelling it from rooftops.

To Me- body language in the videos show a family reunited for an occasion "united for the cause" sort of thing.
Yes-affection was evident -here and there- particularly from SC which is more evidence that it was a type of visitation.

Just curious why you think they would be yelling it from the rooftops, have they ever yelled anything from the rooftops since this started? AFAIK, they've been pretty low-key throughout, but I could be wrong.

All I saw was the one picture, didn't look at a video, but I saw them standing together and Sergio's hand on one boy's shoulder. I didn't interpret that as anything beyond a father placing a hand on his son's shoulder, out of affection, or a token of comfort, or maybe just because it's what fathers do. They SHOULD be united, and come together for the sake of their daughter/sister, and not to impress other people.

I think some tend to see what they want to see and read too much into body language. If one is looking for negative signs, one will ultimately find them.

You could be right... maybe this was a good photo op and the affection was played up for the camera. But if I were in their shoes, I would not be concerned at all about how the media or the public felt about me or my family, all I would be concerned about is praying for my child's safe return.
Just saying.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

We, as public consumers of all news, are always at a disadvantage. We can only form impressions of what the media chooses to disclose. Add to that the fact that even they are limited by what LE, CPS and the parents choose to divulge and we have a perfect recipe for misinterpretation of many situations ~ none of which are facts.

I listen to gut feelings because I think they may be a recrudesce to our basic abilities to protect ourselves and have some value. Feeling that something doesn't sound or seem right ~ something that just doesn't sit well can often be valid.

So I listen to the press, the parents, LE's releases, my own personal histories and all posters' gut feelings. I think they're all very credible inputs.

The only two conclusions that I have come to believe is that (1) these parents aren't trying to perpetrate a hoax to gain money (LOL, attention is the only way they could collect big bucks, and here we are criticizing them for not being public enough to keep attention of Isabel's name out and in front).

And (2) that Isabel's mother knows she does not do well speaking publicly and she is right. We shouldn't be both condemning her for not sharing publicly when we know she rightfully admits she's horrible at it and then criticizing her for her for inadequacies when she does speak publicly as well, should we?

Just :cow:​

 

[Lark2]

The only media that somewhat "works for the public" is NPR and other public broadcast media, but even there, they work for their members and not for the public at large. Regular media works for its advertisers, plain and simple. That translates into ratings. If the case doesn't command high enough ratings it isn't going to get the scrutiny that you seem to believe it should.

Sorry, but must disagree. Media work for the public - they have to - because it is the public who consumes their product. Advertisers make decisions on where to spend their ad dollars based on that consumption, not the other way around.

 

[TxLady2]

Sorry, but must disagree. Media work for the public - they have to - because it is the public who consumes their product. Advertisers make decisions on where to spend their ad dollars based on that consumption, not the other way around.

The media works for whoever is paying their salary. Since advertisers pay a lot of money to have their products advertised, I guess you could say that the media works for them. But they do not work for the public. Most of them couldn't care less what the public wants to hear or see. I might have to sit through 400 commercials during one news program, but I do not have to buy any of the products.

 

[Shelby2]

I really can't believe Isabel is still missing. A few times I thought they were so close, but nothing. Breaks my heart.

 

[iSleuth]

The media works for whoever is paying their salary. Since advertisers pay a lot of money to have their products advertised, I guess you could say that the media works for them. But they do not work for the public. Most of them couldn't care less what the public wants to hear or see. I might have to sit through 400 commercials during one news program, but I do not have to buy any of the products.

This is a really good point and one that can be debated ( I have led a few debates on this topic in courses ) Who really controls the news we see - government, and sponsors views vary widely from the networks. One can draw parallels to totalitarian governments also.

With regard to The News -one area where I take heart is that there are tons of aspiring reporters sleuthing stories, racing for a "scoop" to break cases. In our modern era with 24/7 news outlets and wikileaks there are infinite numbers of ways to get " news" out there. And for this ( pioneering reporters and sleuthers who care like - us*)under the 1st amendment, I can sleep better at night.

As for " screaming it from the rooftops " and The Celis family's non-sharing and No comments, and the PD's no comments... I think the silence says a lot.

Maybe what tells us the most is what no one is saying. No one is saying that anyone has been cleared and or reunited. And No one is saying that there are predators on the loose in Tucson, disabling cameras, and stealing kids and bedding( complete bedsets, dust ruffles/ pillow/ blanket/ rug) in the middle of the night.

:waitasec:

This is not to say that children and people are not abducted by sick evil strangers every single day. They are. :-(
And, in the same way there are cases where family is involved.

Most importantly, where is little Isabel?

 

[Leomoon80]

New July 27th, Video of Candlelight Vigil/Remembrance and prayers for Isabel.

Father joins mother:

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/19131266/candlelight-vigil-for-missing-isabel-celis-tonight

 

[Dr. Know?]

Still nothing. No news, no updates, nada, just nothing. I'm surprised our local news people aren't asking TPD some questions or asking for the release of documents. It's over 3 months since Isabel disappeared. There's only been one doc dump in May. It's now August.

Tucson news people could at least try to get some kind of update or docs released...oh but it's part time news reporters we have here in this big ole city...jmo

 

[TxLady2]

There might be nothing to release. What exactly are you hoping to see? They're still in an ongoing investigation, it's possible there is just nothing new to release to the public. We're not used to seeing doc dumps in very many cases, but is that the reason people seem to be losing interest in Isa's case?? The thread had dropped off the front page before your post, Dr. Know.
This is sad to me. It's gone cold, the public has all but forgotten this little girl.