Found Deceased AZ - Isabella Grogan-Cannella, 8, Bullhead City, 2 September 2014 - #3

[tier]

bbm



I never stated society should be "more tolerant and supportive of drug culture". The point is, society must remain intolerant but not give up on attempting to change the culture of self-destruction. Some societies cut off the hand of a thief. Would you be prepared to take similar destructive action if your cousin led an addict's life or would you want to at least attempt to save him from himself?

As for an intervention for TG and friends, stranger-led interventions are more difficult, the walls are built thicker and the anger burns hotter. Intervention should begin with family and very close friends ..I believe it is more likely to lead to success compared to stranger intervention. There is an emotional element with family and very close friends that is not available in stranger intervention. It should never be dismissed because it it difficult to break through.

As for "firefighters" and "drug-abusers" .. a "good" and "bad" analogy was not the intent, it was simply a way to highlight a gang (better phrase: "a group of like-minded individuals") typically is made up of like-minded individuals, regardless of an occupation or a recreation.

BM

And we as a society aren't doing this? Actually we have become the former (giving clean needles for one) which you say you are not asking for so how much further should we as a society go? Anyone can go to rehab. You don't even have to pay for it. There are all kinds of services and help for addicts. You can lead an addict to help but you can't force them to swallow it. So at that point (if not before) we need to make them accountable.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bullhead-City-Arizona-Government/343118996584?fref=ts

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<3

Beautiful gesture that will live on forever. Very happy with this.

 

[Magdalyn]

Within the depth of grief, it is not unusual for some people to seemingly 'blame' the victim. We know a woman who lost her husband to a heart attack, and during the memorial gathering we witnessed her crying and verbalizing her grief to thin air: "Oh, Ken. Why didn't you take better care of yourself. Why. Why did you leave me all alone."

Shame on people who do not fully understand that grief affects each of us similarly and also differently.

I think this bolded statement makes the assumption that people don't fully understand how vastly different grief can affect a person. Most people do, IMO, it's not a difficult concept to grasp, especially considering most of us on this board have seen people in our lives experience grief, we've seen cases here, and experienced it ourselves. Each of us is entitled to our own well-founded opinion based on our own personal experience with drug addicts, narcissists, and sociopaths. I'd like to think we don't actually shame people for those opinions, beliefs, and feelings which do not match our own, or that we assume their response is simply ignorance.

 

[hambirg]

There is more than the one type of "gang" of which you are most likely thinking. See my other post.

Hint: a "gang" is not always made up of Hector Hellraiser, Juan Whoopass and Bobby Blade. A "gang" is a group of like-minded individuals who share most of the same beliefs, frequent each others life, support each other, enjoy do things together.

Hint: Definition:

gang noun

1:a group of criminals

2: a group of young people who do illegal things together and who often fight against other gangs

3: a group of people who are friends and who do things together

I'm sorry I assumed everyone here was able to understand we were discussing definitions 1 and 2, via context clues. My bad. :facepalm:

 

[tier]

My mind keeps rolling back to the post by the poster who tried to do a loose timeline of the events of that night. Coming to the conclusion that they all left the house about the same time. I'm still processing what that could mean.

I mean, I do have to ask myself why it took two of them to go to Wal-Mart to go get snacks (ahem) for the kids lunches the next day. That late at night, on a school night, with kids that needs to be bathed and in bed, why didn't one of them run up to Wal-Mart for what they needed? When I had little kids and they dropped a bomb on me that I needed 2 dozen cupcakes by the next morning, one of us stayed home with the kids while the other went to the store to buy the ingredients for said cupcakes. So both Tania and Ralphy at WM doesn't make sense to start with.

Now, you add the time that Tania's cousin said she got the call that Bella was missing, when she left a little after 11pm and got that call an hour later, that's midnight. That would mean that JJR had to have had Bella almost immediately after the cousin and her daughter left the house. By Tania's ever moving timeline, they were still at the house.

So were they all at the house at the same time, then all left at the same time???

Yeh, I agree, something huge is missing here. There is more to the story and the liars are protecting their own butts. IMO. Still waiting for more arrests, especially now that they funeral is over. LE has to be watching them like a hawk, just waiting for the right moment. Hopefully.

Yes! I mentioned in a post before that the 10 year old through police reports says that at 11:30 she noticed Bella and JR gone after using the bathroom. Looked around and called mom. It would only take 5 minutes if that to look in a small 2 bedroom and out in the yards. Where did all the missing time from 11:40 pm to 1:18 am go?

 

[lillybell]

Okay, if we focus on JR, what exactly do we have?

Someone recently out of rehab. Extensive criminal record. Staying with TG for a few days. Brought to LE's attention by the 10 year old sibling. Picked up shortly after walking from walmart with new clothes. Picked up and released after giving TG as an alibi.

Was Bella dead or alive when she left her home? How did JR and her get to the site she was found at? Did he carry her if dead? Did he steal a car? Where did the car go if it was him that someone saw leaving on foot from that site? Why walk from Walmart? Did he leave the car at Walmart if the person who thought they saw him was wrong? Why did he give TG as an alibi when questioned as to his whereabouts? Why did he say he couldn't talk about the murder? (I find that very bizarre as I believe that was said when she was merely missing, right? Or even if not that would be a weird thing to say as if he was talking about other stuff or was at least willing.)

I think there is much more to this case that does not involve JR himself. And I'm really curious why RF was the only one not in jail over those other charges.

Lots of good questions on JJR. It appears according to this link, that Bella's body was moved to the wash.
http://www.mohavecourts.com/highprofile/Rector/1193-Felony Indictment9112014.pdf

So how did he transport her? Did he do it alone? He would have to be pretty sure no one would see him if he was on foot carrying a child. I can't see that. If I remember correctly, a car was seen earlier on taped off, was this TG or husbands car?

 

[Tealgrove]

I am wondering if something did happen to Bella at home and EVERYONE is covering up.

Could the older sister have been coerced into her statement?

Remember the "balloon boy"? He was coerced into telling this big story (lie) and the poor little guy couldn't take the pressure and truth eventually came out. His parents "used" him to further their agenda.

Boy, I hate to think that this may be but could this be the missing piece? Maybe the sister's report isn't even close to the truth. My guess is that if she saw what occurred and was told to say what she said "or else", it could be possible. I really hope not though.

I don't know, the whole thing is so bizarre. It's hard to make sense of all of this because, and I'm assuming here, that the majority, if not all of us, don't lead the type of lifestyle of Bella's family. How do you make sense of something that you can't even begin to understand?

Yikes!

 

[Jersey*Girl]

BM

And we as a society aren't doing this? Actually we have become the former (giving clean needles for one) which you say you are not asking for so how much further should we as a society go? Anyone can go to rehab. You don't even have to pay for it. There are all kinds of services and help for addicts. You can lead an addict to help but you can't force them to swallow it. So at that point (if not before) we need to make them accountable.

Right on! And our tax dollars pay for it, too! I've never had a problem lending a hand to someone in need, but I do have a problem with the neverending revolving door for those that seem to never get their acts together. I like the old adage "Screw me once shame on you, screw me twice shame on me". Live and learn is what I believe in. When somebody's illegal festering disease infringes on my and my family's safety, then I call bs on continuing the publicly funded healing and I end my sympathy right there. If somebody wants help there's many avenues for them to get it. Just do it already and quit being an abscess on soceity. Harsher punishments could curb this crap!

 

[Jersey*Girl]

I am wondering if something did happen to Bella at home and EVERYONE is covering up.

Could the older sister have been coerced into her statement?

Remember the "balloon boy"? He was coerced into telling this big story (lie) and the poor little guy couldn't take the pressure and truth eventually came out. His parents "used" him to further their agenda.

Boy, I hate to think that this may be but could this be the missing piece? Maybe the sister's report isn't even close to the truth. My guess is that if she saw what occurred and was told to say what she said "or else", it could be possible. I really hope not though.

I don't know, the whole thing is so bizarre. It's hard to make sense of all of this because, and I'm assuming here, that the majority, if not all of us, don't lead the type of lifestyle of Bella's family. How do you make sense of something that you can't even begin to understand?

Yikes!

My personal opinion is that Bella's sister is the only person in that house that actually told the full truth.

 

[Tealgrove]

I am wondering if something did happen to Bella at home and EVERYONE is covering up.

Could the older sister have been coerced into her statement?

Remember the "balloon boy"? He was coerced into telling this big story (lie) and the poor little guy couldn't take the pressure and truth eventually came out. His parents "used" him to further their agenda.

Boy, I hate to think that this may be but could this be the missing piece? Maybe the sister's report isn't even close to the truth which is why nothing makes sense. My guess is that if she saw what occurred and was told to say what she said "or else", it could be possible. I really hope not though. Man I'd be pretty scared and I'd be saying whatever I was told to say.

I don't know, the whole thing is so bizarre. It's hard to make sense of all of this because, and I'm assuming here, that the majority, if not all of us, don't lead the type of lifestyle of Bella's family. How do you make sense of something that you can't even begin to understand?

Yikes!

 

[sarabean]

BM

And we as a society aren't doing this? Actually we have become the former (giving clean needles for one) which you say you are not asking for so how much further should we as a society go? Anyone can go to rehab. You don't even have to pay for it. There are all kinds of services and help for addicts. You can lead an addict to help but you can't force them to swallow it. So at that point (if not before) we need to make them accountable.

Agree. You can't force someone to change. It doesn't matter how many interventions, rehabs, clean needle exchanges there are. If an addict doesn't want to quit, they won't. And if children don't make the addict ACHE for change, I'm not sure anything will. There has to be a point where we rally around the children, the sober, the larger community and quit making excuses. And that point HAS to be before even more innocent babes die.

 

[lillybell]

My personal opinion is that Bella's sister is the only person in that house that actually told the full truth.

Me too. That poor girl, in a time like this when her worlds been turned upside down,I'm pleased she has the love and support of her grandma. She may also have more to tell now she is removed from all the chaos.

 

[kimi_SFC]

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bullhead-City-Arizona-Government/343118996584?fref=ts

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<3

Cropped image posted by skibaboo :tyou: :hug:

:heartluv:

:rose:

:candle:

#RIPBella


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[Magdalyn]

BM

And we as a society aren't doing this? Actually we have become the former (giving clean needles for one) which you say you are not asking for so how much further should we as a society go? Anyone can go to rehab. You don't even have to pay for it. There are all kinds of services and help for addicts. You can lead an addict to help but you can't force them to swallow it. So at that point (if not before) we need to make them accountable.

We as a society have, IMO, 'helped' so much, we are now enablers. What's the motivation to kick the habit, get a job, stop hanging with criminals, become a responsible parent? You actually seem to have to have one of your children killed in order to have CPS take your children anymore. Even then, it's not necessarily permanently. You're poor and too busy smoking meth to get any kind of job at all? Here's some money. Came out of your drug and felony free neighbor's paycheck. Don't worry about feeding your child breakfast and lunch during the school year. We got it. Your drug free non-felon neighbor paid for it. Misplaced your kid for 24 hours? Sent your little girl into a fitting room with a old man you never met? No worries. We have a case plan designed just for you. We'll work with you. No criminal charges. You're grieving and suffered enough. :banghead:

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Yes! I mentioned in a post before that the 10 year old through police reports says that at 11:30 she noticed Bella and JR gone after using the bathroom. Looked around and called mom. It would only take 5 minutes if that to look in a small 2 bedroom and out in the yards. Where did all the missing time from 11:40 pm to 1:18 am go?

Also note that Walmart is only about a 5 minute drive away. So what time did the adults arrive back at the home? Also would like to know if the step gmom was still in bed when Ralphy & Tania got back home.

 

[news.talk]

I am wondering if something did happen to Bella at home and EVERYONE is covering up.

Could the older sister have been coerced into her statement?

Remember the "balloon boy"? He was coerced into telling this big story (lie) and the poor little guy couldn't take the pressure and truth eventually came out. His parents "used" him to further their agenda.

Boy, I hate to think that this may be but could this be the missing piece? Maybe the sister's report isn't even close to the truth. My guess is that if she saw what occurred and was told to say what she said "or else", it could be possible. I really hope not though.

I don't know, the whole thing is so bizarre. It's hard to make sense of all of this because, and I'm assuming here, that the majority, if not all of us, don't lead the type of lifestyle of Bella's family. How do you make sense of something that you can't even begin to understand?

Yikes!

I agree and have long thought along these same lines. The swift removal of the 10 year-old and subsequent reports that TG is prohibited from even speaking with her, only adds credence.

It would also explain the widely different accounts from all that were there that evening and the omission of JJR from the initial reports made about the child being missing.

I have no doubt LE is at the very least considering this possibility, as part of the normal investigation in these matters. Whether it proves fruitful, is largely dependant on whether someone rolls in the absence of physical evidence.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Okay, if we focus on JR, what exactly do we have?

Someone recently out of rehab. Extensive criminal record. Staying with TG for a few days. Brought to LE's attention by the 10 year old sibling. Picked up shortly after walking from walmart with new clothes. Picked up and released after giving TG as an alibi.

Was Bella dead or alive when she left her home? How did JR and her get to the site she was found at? Did he carry her if dead? Did he steal a car? Where did the car go if it was him that someone saw leaving on foot from that site? Why walk from Walmart? Did he leave the car at Walmart if the person who thought they saw him was wrong? Why did he give TG as an alibi when questioned as to his whereabouts? Why did he say he couldn't talk about the murder? (I find that very bizarre as I believe that was said when she was merely missing, right? Or even if not that would be a weird thing to say as if he was talking about other stuff or was at least willing.)

I think there is much more to this case that does not involve JR himself. And I'm really curious why RF was the only one not in jail over those other charges.

One thing to keep in mind: the current indictment document refers to only two locations: "in the vicinity of 2436 Lakeside" and coordinates pointing to a location just below 2323 Hummingbird Ln, which is across to the other side of the wash. They are either defining two endpoints of a contiguous crime scene across the wash or defining endpoints of travel that does not path across the wash. I tend to believe the shortest distance scenario: the crime scene lies between "in the vicinity of 2436 Lakeside" and the coordinates pointing to a location just below 2323 Hummingbird Ln., *across the wash*.

LE might have pursued the possibility JJR had access to / was permitted use of TG's car but what might negate that idea is that evening LE happened across JJR on-foot ...no car.

I do not find it impossible for a determined, in-relatively-good-shape individual of being capable of carrying Isabella (limp) firefighter-style across the wash. It is not possible to determine JJR's capability simply by viewing recent photos. And with JJR just coming out of rehab (unknown how many days had passed) would he have had the endurance, let alone strength? We do not know if JJR was high that evening, which a proper dose of the right something would have given him the required endurance.

A car-theft or hijacking charge against JJR has not been filed.

As for giving TG as an alibi, he may have assumed since they were good friends that she would either assume he was still at the house while Isabella wandered away from the house and support his claim or she would simply do him a solid since they had been family-like friends for years, never suspecting him.

JJR also provided one of his best friends as an alibi, and that best friend denied ever having seen him that evening. Using TG as an alibi could simply have been an act of desperation, without any real expectation.

I would like to hear more from TG's cousin. How long was JJR there with them? Did he leave while she was still there or was he still there when she and her daughter left?

Another point to ponder: If TG was involved, how could she hide that from her cousin and her daughter? The cousin's, her daughter's and Isabella's sister's testimony would be very interesting to hear in contrast to TG's and RF's, in a JJR trial.

 

[Seajay]

Yes! I mentioned in a post before that the 10 year old through police reports says that at 11:30 she noticed Bella and JR gone after using the bathroom. Looked around and called mom. It would only take 5 minutes if that to look in a small 2 bedroom and out in the yards. Where did all the missing time from 11:40 pm to 1:18 am go?

Especially with JR using TG as an alibi. I don't believe for one minute that TG and RF were at Wal-Mart. Fortunately, video surveillance can prove or disprove that. JR places himself with TG at the time of Bella's murder. What if he's telling the truth in that??? Because we have all this time missing, where were the 3 of them? What were they all doing?? Hinky, hinky.

 

[atthelake]

My mind keeps rolling back to the post by the poster who tried to do a loose timeline of the events of that night. Coming to the conclusion that they all left the house about the same time. I'm still processing what that could mean.

I mean, I do have to ask myself why it took two of them to go to Wal-Mart to go get snacks (ahem) for the kids lunches the next day. That late at night, on a school night, with kids that needs to be bathed and in bed, why didn't one of them run up to Wal-Mart for what they needed? When I had little kids and they dropped a bomb on me that I needed 2 dozen cupcakes by the next morning, one of us stayed home with the kids while the other went to the store to buy the ingredients for said cupcakes. So both Tania and Ralphy at WM doesn't make sense to start with.

Now, you add the time that Tania's cousin said she got the call that Bella was missing, when she left a little after 11pm and got that call an hour later, that's midnight. That would mean that JJR had to have had Bella almost immediately after the cousin and her daughter left the house. By Tania's ever moving timeline, they were still at the house.

So were they all at the house at the same time, then all left at the same time???

Yeh, I agree, something huge is missing here. There is more to the story and the liars are protecting their own butts. IMO. Still waiting for more arrests, especially now that they funeral is over. LE has to be watching them like a hawk, just waiting for the right moment. Hopefully.

I left a friends house last night...and to tell you that I left at 11:04 EXACTLY... That struck me as VERY strange. Perhaps I don't pay attention to time as much as others, unless I was making a phone call as leaving and could refer to that at a later time.

 

[vasportsmom]

Hint: Definition:



I'm sorry I assumed everyone here was able to understand we were discussing definitions 1 and 2, via context clues. My bad. :facepalm:

I pink sparkly heart you!


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