Found Deceased AZ - Isabella Grogan-Cannella, 8, Bullhead City, 2 September 2014 - #4

[Ontario Mom]

Hannah Grahams case could always use more sleuths!! Come on over[emoji5]

I followed her case in the beginning then it just exploded. I tried to catch myself up day before yesterday then it sort of exploded again.

 

[Magdalyn]

That was a serious answer. Our "kids" are canines. And, they would bite her.

If you mean if I had human children, my answer would be "no", not simply because it was TG ..we would not leave our children, period. The same way we do not leave our canines. And this is absolutely true: either me or my spouse are with our babies (one of our babies has to be monitored 24/7 due to a life-threatening issue). It affects how we live. When we leave the house, doggies come with us. We do not go to restaurants. We do not go to movies. Although, we do give each other a break now and again, one stays home, the other goes out for a bit.

Fair enough. I can tell you I have had human kids for 16 years, (and had a dog for 15 years ). From my experience as a mother, an aunt, and an honorary auntie to dozens of my friends and neighbor's kids, the only people who would let TG 'babysit' their kids are people who share her lifestyle and belief system ....'whether it be legal or not.'

 

[Hippiemomof5]

bbm



IN missing child cases, Police are contacted within:
-----------------------------------------------------
19% :Immediately.
25% : 1.0 hour.
40% : 2.0 hours.
68% : 4.5 hours.
86% : 24.0 hours.
99% :>24.0 hours.

Certainly, they might have been "cleaning up" the scene, but there is nothing unusual in the delay in contacting Police.

The "hour , hour and a half" delay (approximated by RF when asked during the 911 call) from when TG was notified and RF contacted 911 is not unusual by any stretch.

View attachment 59684

It was RF who contacted 911. We do not know all of what TG may have told LE, I could not find that information.

Not mentioning JJR during the 911 call raises a red flag, indeed. It could be interpreted two ways:

1) RF did not want to implicate JJR (some reports indicate they are cousins / related) could be involved.
2) RF truly believed JJR was not involved (they reported to LE they did not seen him 'downstairs' when they left for Wal-Mart).

Either is possible, but most would believe the first interpretation is closer to actuality.

No, it's within the norm. However, given the circumstances of this particular case, it's very unusual IMO that 911 wasn't called by the grandmother immediately or the mother immediately upon returning home from Walmart. It's almost midnight, and your ten year old tells you that your druggie, felon friend, who has a history of violence has left the house with your 8 year old daughter... There's no reason for a time lapse before 911 is called. Absolutely no reason. It's nearly midnight and you KNOW who your child left with, call 911 and tell them RIGHT AWAY!!!!

 

[Z&BsMommy]

She reminds me of Katelyn Markham for some reason and I've became obsessed with reading every news article I can find but I have avoided her thread. I guess it is time to change that.


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Katelyn Markum, I don't think I am familiar with her case.. I'll be doing some googling myself,thank you! We would love your input.. Hannah needs to come home, now.

 

[Z&BsMommy]

I followed her case in the beginning then it just exploded. I tried to catch myself up day before yesterday then it sort of exploded again.

Iam forever trying to catch up!! Hannah's case is definitely an intriguing one!

 

[Magdalyn]

bbm

I did not realize the extent to which that is an issue. As I had commented previously, my close-and-personal experiences with drug abusers (long-time friends and some related) did not reflect the reported statistics in any way, shape nor form. In fact, the families were as normal as could be except for the D.A. They did not hold jobs for extended periods but certainly were no where being indigent. No, they did not sell. And as I had commented previously, the children today are each stand-up citizens in their professions and community. It's all in what you *know*, not assume. With those statistics I may now apply different thoughts to this case ..but I will not entirely exclude entertaining reasonable explanations for unknowns.

To be clear, and I'm sure you're not implying it, but I personally didn't assume the abuse/negligence facts. At one time I worked in a school environment and was a mandated reporter. I've also taken classes through DFACS (CPS in my state) when family was licensing to be foster parents. I've seen the realities. And, as I'm sure you are aware, some people are lucky, and persevere despite growing up in such an environment. The odds are not in their favor. And also, just because someone grows into a well-employed, seemingly stand-up individual does not mean they are not damaged in some way physically, emotionally, or both.

 

[vasportsmom]

Katelyn Markum, I don't think I am familiar with her case.. I'll be doing some googling myself,thank you! We would love your input.. Hannah needs to come home, now.

Katelyn has been gone 3 years now but she is still waiting for justice. The circumstances aren't similar but something about Hannah makes me think of Katelyn.


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[news.talk]

That was a serious answer. Our "kids" are canines. And, they would bite her.

If you mean if I had human children, my answer would be "no", not simply because it was TG ..we would not leave our children, period. The same way we do not leave our canines. And this is absolutely true: either me or my spouse are with our babies (one of our babies has to be monitored 24/7 due to a life-threatening issue). It affects how we live. When we leave the house, doggies come with us. We do not go to restaurants. We do not go to movies. Although, we do give each other a break now and again, one stays home, the other goes out for a bit.

Forgive me but speaking as someone who raised many fur-babies prior to human babies, I can unequitably state that the two are in no means the same.

When you become a parent (to human children) there are more moral, legal and ethical laws, not to mention innate instincts, that govern every single decision.

When a fellow 'human parent' fails miserably and fatefully in their role, it is not just offensive, but emotionally devastating.

I had too quit covering crime since I had 'human babies' because it was biologically impossible to separate my own parentage from the victim's.

With all due respect, I cannot fathom any 'parent' taking the position that the neglect in the victim's household, had NOTHING to do with the people the parents chose to care for their children.

 

[tier]

The statistics unfortunately don't show the percentage of parents who wait 90 minutes to 2 hours when they discover their 8 year old child missing in the middle of the night when they thought they were home in bed. I'd wager the parents of an under 10 year old go in and see their child is missing from bed they put them in at 10:00, is now missing at 11:30, would call in well under an hour. I'd wager that most parents who wait more than 2 hours are more often parents of older kids who miss a curfew or check-in mid day, and the older the child is, the longer the parent will put off the call (unless you're Jenise's parents. Then you'll be worried but not call.) The rest of the parents that wait hours and hours to call are likely negligent parents, drug addicts, or involved in why the child is missing, also, information the stats don't tell us.

To me, the combination of waiting 90 minutes to call LE when it was middle of the night/full dark PLUS implying the grandmother was babysitting when they left, when we know she was asleep, PLUS the failure to mention JJR at all on 911 or to LE, all point to the parents knowingly withholding necessary information, and point to the prioritization of finding Bella 2nd to covering their own tracks.

Just my take on it from what I've seen in these cases. Your mileage may vary.

Imo, this is the only way to take those statistics. I cannot see anyone waiting 90 minutes to 2 hours after learning their 8 year old was missing in the middle of the night. The later time lapses (that are understandable) from when you last saw or expected your child would come from older teens and/or middle of the day thinking they caught the bus/walked and then finding out they didn't get to school/friends/mall at all. That or extremely negligent parents.

 

[Z&BsMommy]

Katelyn has been gone 3 years now but she is still waiting for justice. The circumstances aren't similar but something about Hannah makes me think of Katelyn.


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I am so tired of all these girls getting their lives ripped away before they have a chance to enjoy them.. [emoji20] Alice Gross, from the UK, is another.. She's just a baby, 14 years old.

 

[vasportsmom]

I am so tired of all these girls getting their lives ripped away before they have a chance to enjoy them.. [emoji20] Alice Gross, from the UK, is another.. She's just a baby, 14 years old.

I know that someone will pop up with statics saying that these cases aren't happening any more often than they ever have but it feels like the are occurring much more frequently than they did even a generation ago. My sons are 14 & 18 but I've never been so afraid as I was during the months that I had custody of my nieces. It doesn't feel like it is ever safe to let a little girl out of your sight.


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[Amster]

Thank you, I needed that reminder. This is such a short and simple statement but it is 100% accurate.


Back to Bella - As a country we MUST stop letting parents by with failing their kids in such devastating ways. Tania, Rayne, Jim & Denise ...the list goes on and on, as does the corresponding list of dead children. Employees are fired for poor job performance if they drop the ball more than once or twice. Pet owners land in jail for neglecting their pets with far less tragic outcomes yet CPS and LE give parents chance after chance with their children. Why? Perhaps it is time to scrape the current CPS system and ask PETA or the Humane Society to recreate it. At the very least our children are entitled to the same protection as a stray animal.


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Thank you!! For putting in words how I feel.....
Right now, in real life, my son and all of our family are dealing with this scary scenario. My precious, adorable much loved grandson is in primary custody of my unstable ex daughter in law from hell. She has been diagnosed as bi-polar. Refuses to take meds....hangs out with sketchy people and exposes my precious to who knows what! My son and his lawyer are preparing to ask for enhanced visitation....not called visitation in Texas but I can't remember the term used.....so he has more control and more time with our angel. I can't even explain how terrified I am, constantly, that this little blessing to our family will end up a statistic like so many others. I read posts that trivialize the danger little Bella was in and it makes me weep.....
Thank you...

 

[StormyNights]

I know that someone will pop up with statics saying that these cases aren't happening any more often than they ever have but it feels like the are occurring much more frequently than they did even a generation ago. My sons are 14 & 18 but I've never been so afraid as I was during the months that I had custody of my nieces. It doesn't feel like it is ever safe to let a little girl out of your sight.


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I couldn't agree with you more! Not that I like to age myself, but I will. I will be 35 on Wednesday. My childhood was wonderful. Riding bikes all over town. Walking to my friends houses, alone. Never had a worry. My kids are 13 (girl) 11 (boy) and 10 (girl). I feel like I am depriving my kids of a normal childhood. They are not allowed to leave my sight. It is really starting to cause problems in our relationships. Especially my 13 year old. They feel I don't trust them. I do, completely. I don't trust the rest of the world though. I have tried to teach my kids to be safe and very aware of their surroundings at all times. I have tried to be as real as I can be without putting a crippling fear into them. I wasn't aware of how bad the world is getting myself, until I found this site. It has scared the carp out of me! I have had to take several breaks from this site to try and get my head clear. I still refuse to do anything that seems to put my kids in an even easier situation for something awful to happen. They don't understand and tell me I am way too over protective. I know this, but man! I just can't balance the two! It just isn't the same world that it use to be, I agree with that. While I have heard that crime is down, it is just more widely reported due to technology and the social media sites. I suppose that could be true. Where do I draw the line between keeping my kids safe and being unreasonable? I wish I knew.

 

[vasportsmom]

Thank you!! For putting in words how I feel.....
Right now, in real life, my son and all of our family are dealing with this scary scenario. My precious, adorable much loved grandson is in primary custody of my unstable ex daughter in law from hell. She has been diagnosed as bi-polar. Refuses to take meds....hangs out with sketchy people and exposes my precious to who knows what! My son and his lawyer are preparing to ask for enhanced visitation....not called visitation in Texas but I can't remember the term used.....so he has more control and more time with our angel. I can't even explain how terrified I am, constantly, that this little blessing to our family will end up a statistic like so many others. I read posts that trivialize the danger little Bella was in and it makes me weep.....
Thank you...

I am so sorry for what your family is going through. I watch the same situation play out with my nieces and can do nothing but hope that CPS steps back in before it is tragically to late. Courts favor keeping children with mothers to a degree that can no longer be justified. Being able to birth a child is in no way indicative of an ability to love, protect and raise that child. Children are treated like property by many courts and we see the devastating outcome of that mentality here, over and over. We are not only witnessing horrific stories of abuse now but we are creating a generation of children that will have no idea what normal relationships look like. How can they be expected to create healthy homes for their own children when they were denied the opportunity to see what that looks like? I'm heartbroken for what we are doing to these children in declaring that mothers know best.


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[ChuckMaureen]

bbm

No, it's within the norm. However, given the circumstances of this particular case, it's very unusual IMO that 911 wasn't called by the grandmother immediately or the mother immediately upon returning home from Walmart. It's almost midnight, and your ten year old tells you that your druggie, felon friend, who has a history of violence has left the house with your 8 year old daughter... There's no reason for a time lapse before 911 is called. Absolutely no reason. It's nearly midnight and you KNOW who your child left with, call 911 and tell them RIGHT AWAY!!!!

A point that has not been emphasized often enough. Was that particular GM not as endeared by the children as is (assumed) SW? What was her role in the household, if any? Being the on-site adult at the time of the abduction and having been informed by Isabella's sister that Isabella was nowhere to be found, will she be charged (negligence?) or will she get a pass from LE / prosecutors? If she was not placed 'in charge' of watching the children then she, IMO, could not be held to account.

It is reasonable for parents or guardians to first search for a 'missing' child, especially one that had been playing 'hide and seek'. At that point IMO neither TG nor RF were under the impression that Isabella was *missing* (in the sense we now know). The children had been playing hide and seek and it is reasonable that TG was thinking that Isabella ("Bella"), being the fun-loving little girl was simply hiding really well. Given this possible scenario it is very reasonable for the parents to have first searched for Isabella and with a mix of concern and disbelief then to have called 911 when it had become an obvious necessity.

It would be valuable if we knew of JJR's habits of coming and going, how often and for how long was he in the house, how often did he leave, return, etc. But, I'm not sure such a pattern would necessarily develop in the span of two days.

 

[vasportsmom]

I couldn't agree with you more! Not that I like to age myself, but I will. I will be 35 on Wednesday. My childhood was wonderful. Riding bikes all over town. Walking to my friends houses, alone. Never had a worry. My kids are 13 (girl) 11 (boy) and 10 (girl). I feel like I am depriving my kids of a normal childhood. They are not allowed to leave my sight. It is really starting to cause problems in our relationships. Especially my 13 year old. They feel I don't trust them. I do, completely. I don't trust the rest of the world though. I have tried to teach my kids to be safe and very aware of their surroundings at all times. I have tried to be as real as I can be without putting a crippling fear into them. I wasn't aware of how bad the world is getting myself, until I found this site. It has scared the carp out of me! I have had to take several breaks from this site to try and get my head clear. I still refuse to do anything that seems to put my kids in an even easier situation for something awful to happen. They don't understand and tell me I am way too over protective. I know this, but man! I just can't balance the two! I just isn't the same world that it use to be, I agree with that. While I have heard that crime is down, it is just more widely reported due to technology and the social media sites. I suppose that could be true. Where do I draw the line between keeping my kids safe and being unreasonable? I wish I knew.

I'm raising my children next door to the home I was raised in and only minutes from the home my husband was raised in but it's a different world now (I'm 37). My youngest son's best friend lives exactly a mile away on the same street but at 14/15 the boys have never been allowed to walk or bike to see each other. We live in a small town and everyone knows everyone else but that just means that we know the RSOs and other dangerous criminals lurking in our community. The number of violent crimes against children may be the same as when I was a child but the number of parents aware of the dangers has greatly increased and we would be fools not to act on that knowledge. It may mean that our children won't have the same carefree childhoods that we did but hopefully it will mean our fellow posters are never forced to read about our children here.


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[ChuckMaureen]

Is it reported in court documents that TG refused any requests from LE for to search the house in the hours just after Isabella had gone missing and before the now-infamous ("Hands up!") search warrant was served?

I seem to recall the search warrant was issued / served *after* LE had located and spoken to JJR? If that is true the search warrant makes sense ...it woudl be requited for LE to legally search for and extract items relevant to JJR and possibly relevant to Isabella's clothing (since JJR had replaced his clothing that provided probable cause for to search for Isabella's clothing, even though LE had not yet located the body and eventual state of dress) .

 

[newone]

bbm



A point that has not been emphasized often enough. Was that particular GM not as endeared by the children as is (assumed) SW? What was her role in the household, if any? Being the on-site adult at the time of the abduction and having been informed by Isabella's sister that Isabella was nowhere to be found, will she be charged (negligence?) or will she get a pass from LE / prosecutors? If she was not placed 'in charge' of watching the children then she, IMO, could not be held to account.

It is reasonable for parents or guardians to first search for a 'missing' child, especially one that had been playing 'hide and seek. At that point IMO neither TG nor RF were under the impression that Isabella was *missing* (in the sense we now know). The children had been playing hide and seek and it is reasonable that TG was thinking that Isabella ("Bella"), being the fun-loving little girl was simply hiding really well. Given this possible scenario it is very reasonable for the parents to have first searched for Isabella and with a mix of concern and disbelief then to have called 911 when it had become an obvious necessity.

It would be valuable if we knew of JJR's habits of coming and going, how often and for how long was he in the house, how often did he leave, return, etc. But, I'm not sure such a pattern would necessarily develop in the span of two days.

bbm

I am curious too about the GM -- just from a basic human being point of view -- not legalistic, I am curious why she didn't raise the flag and declare emergency (a) first to RF & TG via phone (b) start tearing house apart looking (c) calling neighbours to help and/or (d) call 911 with RF's blessings.

Given that she was asleep ((her own admission on television and she looked very sad about it truthfully))....it's doubtful anyone will hold her responsible .... while 10 yr old did say she told GM is it possible hat GM was so deeply asleep she couldn't be roused?

It will be interesting to see if she will be charged -- I really don't kow. MOO

It will also be interesting if she was even asked to watch the girls or even ''told'' that the parents were leaving. She may have been a reluctant sitter. Were TG and RF in the habit of 'just leaving' and assuming that it was ok with GM?

 

[ChuckMaureen]

To be clear, and I'm sure you're not implying it, but I personally didn't assume the abuse/negligence facts. At one time I worked in a school environment and was a mandated reporter. I've also taken classes through DFACS (CPS in my state) when family was licensing to be foster parents. I've seen the realities. And, as I'm sure you are aware, some people are lucky, and persevere despite growing up in such an environment. The odds are not in their favor. And also, just because someone grows into a well-employed, seemingly stand-up individual does not mean they are not damaged in some way physically, emotionally, or both.

I was qualifying my experiences ...it is what I knew to be, not what I assumed.

 

[claudicici]

I agree with you with one exception - meth abuse can make a person do things they normally wouldn't otherwise do. It can affect people in different ways depending on not only how long they've used but also by the chemical compounds used in cutting it. When certain chems mix with a person's certain chemical & biological makeup, it can produce various levels of heightened experiences - one of which includes violence, another euphoria. Not all the time does the euphoria happen at the beginning of their high...that also can depend on their drug usage.

Here in my town heroin is bad. Meth has been creeping in for a couple years now. Our school actually has 2 major drug awareness events during school nights that is open to our community to learn the effects of various drugs. We always have the head of narcotics come in to speak, as well as a DEA agent and some FBI. Meth is one of the things they covered the last time I went and I'll scan the info they handed out. One of the things that stuck with me is a video they showed of a true person in the middle of a meth rage caught on some kind of security camera - went right up to a person in a car stopped in the street and punched their window out. Omg! Totally unprovoked. Sometimes drugs can have a pleasant effect but sometimes it can be very bad and harmful to others. It's not something that can be predicted by comparing to others. It's definitely something that is a nationwide epidemic at the moment.

The thing is, even though this is the life Tania was so used to, she's also been arrested for drugs. Her ex has been arrested for drugs. Her husband/boyfriend has been arrested for drugs. The majority of her inner circle have drug arrests in their backgrounds. She's known Rector for years so has to know of his arrests. She's lost her kids more than once. Her own brother gave her a piece of his mind about moving Bella all over among other things. Her own brother at one point asked her what have you done now and something about his niece better be ok or whatever. So Tania definitely knew right from wrong bc she was reprimanded for it and has been around those that were arrested for that as well as violence charges and were reprimanded. So since she knew right from wrong, and knew of violent tendencies in the past, she should have known better. IMVHO she just didn't care.

Those violent tendencies in JR you can also see in her brother if you read his SM and probably 80% of the people in her circle.I don't want to come off as a TG supporter because I'm not,but I think the problem is the bigger picture and it is not fair to condemn TG. She already paid the ultimate price.And I do believe she is grieving and she did care.As far as grandma goes if JR was indeed in her bedroom smoking all day chances are so was she.I know that Meth is being portrayed in the media as causing really insane reactions and it must be true in some cases.Unfortunately I've been around meth users for a long time and it never fails that it takes me a long time to realize oh my god the rumors are true so and so is on Meth.The only thing I have witnessed with all of them is a blown up confidence and talking bad about Meth and accusing everyone else to be on it.That's what I noticed about reading in the Bella Be strong facebook,I bet a lot of them are using the way they argue and talk about TG.In the beginning I was totally on the fence about TG's involvement other than the "lifestyle" but after digging deep into SM I believe the blame game has gone too far and people should let her grieve because it is the only lifestyle she knew and she never could have predicted THIS to happen.Bella's sister missed her mom so much when she wasn't with her,there were huge Christmas,Easter and Birthday celebrations for the kids,so I don't want to believe Bella's life was all bad.She was happy.As far as changing her story,I don't think it ever changed that much.By his own account JR said he left before the others left for Walmart (or wherever they were going) I think Bella's sister may have not told them about JR until the police got there.As far as the delay in calling 911 I do believe there was clean up going on (because of the drugs) and they may not have thought it to be as serious as it was,like R said they just thought it was " A little weird"