Found Deceased AZ - Jerold Williams, 5, Jacob Lake, 6 Aug 2015

[bluesneakers]

If it were
3 red haired girls within 6 weeks of each other with the campgrounds bordering states and in a curious alignment, yes, I would think there was a connection. Wouldn't you?

If there's anything to this theory adding other missing kids to the map might support whatever it is you think might be going on. Excluding information doesn't help.

JMO.

 

[bluesneakers]

Find me a story with no inconsistencies and odd details.

I'm just not seeing it. I haven't read much about Malachi, admittedly, but see no connection between a kiddo succumbing to the elements with a kiddo of not the same age getting lost (IMO) over a state away (over 600 miles apart).

I don't either. Especially considering:

The differences in the ages of the three boys
The Mormon population in the states involved
Jerold was FLDS, not LDS
Do we even know if DeOrr's family is LDS?

JMO.

 

[merlgerl]

He's been found, thank goodness. At this point, our job is done IMO. If the parents feel that professionals dropped the ball, they can take appropriate action. Or if LE sees something suspicious about who found him, they can investigate. Personally, I don't see a conspiracy here or a connection to the other boys. Sadly, individual children go missing and end up dead all the time and there are new cases here on WS every day. I just don't see the point of digging deeper into this one. JMO

A frail little guy makes his way 4 miles through rough terrain and finds a road and instead of staying on the road where he might be found he goes back into the rough. I'll keep diggin thank you.

 

[merlgerl]

I don't either. Especially considering:The differences in the ages of the three boysThe Mormon population in the states involvedJerold was FLDS, not LDSDo we even know if DeOrr's family is LDS? JMO.

Yes, they are. Until the fate of baby Deorr is found out, any scenario, any connection, no matter how vague, is a possibility.Especially when the obvious conclusions have come to a dead end.

 

[Lilibet]

a frail little guy makes his way 4 miles through rough terrain and finds a road and instead of staying on the road where he might be found he goes back into the rough. I'll keep diggin thank you.

ok.

 

[merlgerl]

I'm not trying to be rude or obtuse, but have you been to these states? I'm wondering if you really have a concept of the vastness of the wilderness. It's like being shocked someone didn't find a needle in a haystack, IMO.

I live right up next to the Cd'A Nation Forest. I have some idea of the vastness of the wilderness.

 

[bluesneakers]

Yes, they are. Until the fate of baby Deorr is found out, any scenario, any connection, no matter how vague, is a possibility.Especially when the obvious conclusions have come to a dead end.

Source?

What are the obvious conclusions?

Why not add other kids to the list/map and see if it changes things?

 

[gitana1]

Find me a story with no inconsistencies and odd details.

I'm just not seeing it. I haven't read much about Malachi, admittedly, but see no connection between a kiddo succumbing to the elements with a kiddo of not the same age getting lost (IMO) over a state away (over 600 miles apart).

I'm not seeing it either. There is nothing rational or logical about the theory that these three incidents are connected.

Firet of all, FLDS is not connected to mainstream LDS.

Second, what would be the point? Malachi was found safe. No evidence he was stolen or mistreated.

Theories have to be based on some kind of fact- not insinuations that LE is lying or not doing their jobs when they state the facts of the case: Malachi got lost and was found safe, no foul play. Jerold got lost and wandered until he succumbed to the elements. No sign of foul play or molestation or whatever was reported. DeOrr has not been found and no signs of foul play.

What facts show that these cases are remotely connected with the exception that they occurred at campgrounds in the summer when families tend to camp?

 

[flourish]

I don't either. Especially considering:

The differences in the ages of the three boys
The Mormon population in the states involved
Jerold was FLDS, not LDS
Do we even know if DeOrr's family is LDS?

JMO.

As far as I know, we don't know if the immediate Kunz family are members, active or not. As you mentioned, FLDS isn't LDS.

In any case, I don't feel comfortable with the implications.

 

[gitana1]

A frail little guy makes his way 4 miles through rough terrain and finds a road and instead of staying on the road where he might be found he goes back into the rough. I'll keep diggin thank you.

Maybe he needed water.

 

[flourish]

A frail little guy makes his way 4 miles through rough terrain and finds a road and instead of staying on the road where he might be found he goes back into the rough. I'll keep diggin thank you.

Lost children have their own logic.

 

[Lilibet]

Yes, they are. Until the fate of baby Deorr is found out, any scenario, any connection, no matter how vague, is a possibility.Especially when the obvious conclusions have come to a dead end.

I wondered why this theory hadn't been posted on DeOrr's thread, but I see that it was. Similar logic was applied to it there that has been here, and that logic has been discounted and ignored. There is a tenacity about this that indicates to me that it's very much about LDS, which is what I picked up on from the original post. JMO

There is absolutely no indication or real evidence of an LDS or FLDS conspiracy and/or involvement in these three cases. To repeatedly insist on that is frankly offensive even to those of us who have no LDS connection. There is absolutely no basis for this to continue.
JMO, MOO

 

[gitana1]

Percentage of Mormons in Utah (Malachi) = 63% http://www.sltrib.com/news/1842825-155/mormon-populace-picks-up-the-pace
Idaho (DeOrr) = state with second most percentage of Mormons in the nation. http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/2014/07/02/12095125/
The Mormon population in the U.S. is heavily concentrated in the West (76%).http://www.pewforum.org/2009/07/24/a-portrait-of-mormons-in-the-us/
Arizona (Jerold) = Jerold was not LDS. (But Arizona has a very high LDS population as well).


May we add these people to the list of those who went missing at campgrounds this summer:

1. 2 year old boy with autism went missing from a campground at Sublette IL. He was found drowned. I found nothing to indicate foul play or a connection to LDS: http://kwqc.com/2015/08/03/boy-with-autism-drowns-at-lee-county-campground/

2. 13 year old Damon Cote went missing while camping in Orleans county VT. He was found safe and I've found no evidence of foul play nor connection to LDS. http://www.wcax.com/story/29476642/police-search-for-teen-who-disappeared-while-camping

3. Three adult sisters were found safe after going missing form a Wyoming campground. I've found no evidence of foul play nor connection to LDS. http://wgntv.com/2015/07/08/search-...sters-missing-in-wyoming-during-camping-trip/

4. 19 year old found dead in a pond after going missing from a campsite in Arlington, IN. I've found no evidence of foul play nor connection to LDS. http://www.rushvillerepublican.com/...cle_795f4d83-e886-502c-9b5b-8097a1e23dfd.html http://wishtv.com/2015/06/22/missing-rushville-teen-found-in-pond-near-arlington-campgrounds/

5. A dad and 2 kids found safe after missing for two days from a campground in Sierra County, CA. No connection to LDS and no evidence of foul play found: http://www.abc10.com/story/news/local/2015/05/07/search-for-dad-and-kids-in-sierra-county/70947070/

6. A 12 year old girl was found safe after being reported missing from a Lackawanna NY summer camp: http://wivb.com/2015/07/30/search-underway-for-missing-child-at-martins-fantasy-island/

7. A 34 year old man went missing from a campground in Juneau, AK and has not been found. No connection to LDS and no evidence of foul play found: http://juneauempire.com/state/2015-08-17/search-suspended-colorado-man-missing-campsite

8. An 8 year old little girl was found drowned after going missing from a campground at Cle Elum, WA. I've found no evidence of foul play nor connection to LDS. http://q13fox.com/2015/07/28/deputi...ed-in-lake-during-camp-trip-with-grandmother/


The fact of the matter is that in the summer, people camp. And so people - many of whom are young- also go missing from campsites.
That speaks more about people failing to follow basic safety protocols, underestimating he dangers and vastness of the wilderness and letting one's guard down when it comes to monitoring children when away from other people (thinking they are thus safer), than it does to any sort of conspiracy to target certain people from certain groups.

There has been zero indication of foul play of kidnapping in the cases some are trying to connect to one another. Camping is a big tradition in America, especially in the west. Many things can and do happen when people camp.

 

[merlgerl]

Percentage of Mormons in Utah (Malachi) = 63% http://www.sltrib.com/news/1842825-155/mormon-populace-picks-up-the-pace
Idaho (DeOrr) = state with second most percentage of Mormons in the nation. http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/2014/07/02/12095125/
The Mormon population in the U.S. is heavily concentrated in the West
(76%).http://www.pewforum.org/2009/07/24/a-portrait-of-mormons-in-the-us/
Arizona (Jerold) = Jerold was not LDS. (But Arizona has a very high LDS population as well).


May we add these people to the list of those who went missing at campgrounds this summer:

1. 2 year old boy with autism went missing from a campground at Sublette IL. He was found drowned. I found nothing to indicate foul play or a connection to LDS: http://kwqc.com/2015/08/03/boy-with-autism-drowns-at-lee-county-campground/

2. 13 year old Damon Cote went missing while camping in Orleans county VT. He was found safe and I've found no evidence of foul play nor connection to LDS. http://www.wcax.com/story/29476642/police-search-for-teen-who-disappeared-while-camping

3. Three adult sisters were found safe after going missing form a Wyoming campground. I've found no evidence of foul play nor connection to LDS. http://wgntv.com/2015/07/08/search-...sters-missing-in-wyoming-during-camping-trip/

4. 19 year old found dead in a pond after going missing from a campsite in Arlington, IN. I've found no evidence of foul play nor connection to LDS. http://www.rushvillerepublican.com/...cle_795f4d83-e886-502c-9b5b-8097a1e23dfd.html http://wishtv.com/2015/06/22/missing-rushville-teen-found-in-pond-near-arlington-campgrounds/

5. A dad and 2 kids found safe after missing for two days from a campground in Sierra County, CA. No connection to LDS and no evidence of foul play found: http://www.abc10.com/story/news/local/2015/05/07/search-for-dad-and-kids-in-sierra-county/70947070/

6. A 12 year old girl was found safe after being reported missing from a Lackawanna NY summer camp: http://wivb.com/2015/07/30/search-underway-for-missing-child-at-martins-fantasy-island/

7. A 34 year old man went missing from a campground in Juneau, AK and has not been found. No connection to LDS and no evidence of foul play found: http://juneauempire.com/state/2015-08-17/search-suspended-colorado-man-missing-campsite

8. An 8 year old little girl was found drowned after going missing from a campground at Cle Elum, WA. I've found no evidence of foul play nor connection to LDS. http://q13fox.com/2015/07/28/deputi...ed-in-lake-during-camp-trip-with-grandmother/


The fact of the matter is that in the summer, people camp. And so people - many of whom are young- also go missing from campsites.
That speaks more about people failing to follow basic safety protocols, underestimating he dangers and vastness of the wilderness and letting one's guard down when it comes to monitoring children when away from other people (thinking they are thus safer), than it does to any sort of conspiracy to target certain people from certain groups.

There has been zero indication of foul play of kidnapping in the cases some are trying to connect to one another. Camping is a big tradition in America, especially in the west. Many things can and do happen when people camp.

I have an issue with 5 of the 8 stories. Couple of the stories are so vague you gotta wonder why they were even published in the first place. I didn't see any stories relating to blond boys 10 years old or younger camping in the national forest anywhere near where our boys were. So I guess I don't get what your point is.

 

[katydid23]

A frail little guy makes his way 4 miles through rough terrain and finds a road and instead of staying on the road where he might be found he goes back into the rough. I'll keep diggin thank you.

He was on the road, as you said. But sadly, towards the end, he was probably dehydrated and exhausted, which creates a form of delirium. So it makes sense to me that he would stray from the road and go back into the rough. :cry:

 

[merlgerl]

He was on the road, as you said. But sadly, towards the end, he was probably dehydrated and exhausted, which creates a form of delirium. So it makes sense to me that he would stray from the road and go back into the rough. :cry:

How would delirium make sense to you? And I don't believe he could make it through 4 miles of rough terrain between the hours of 2pm and dark to even find the road. Searchers driving the roads would have been passing that area as it was just under 4 miles from the campsite. 100s of searchers, many agencies, including military, looking for him and volunteers from his hometown show up and miraculously spot him where he lay since the first day?

 

[katydid23]

Delirium makes sense to me because that's what happens when children become dehydrated in the elements. It can happen very quickly.

Those searchers probably didn't even make it into the area and begin fanning out before Jerold had already lay down to rest. He may have already succumbed to the elements before the SAR teams were fully operational. JMO

ETA: His mom and family searched for FOUR HOURS before they reported him missing at 5:30 pm. The search did not even get started until dark and continued throughout the first night. He may have died before the teams even got going the next morning. He was a very small little guy. It doesn't take much for a small child to die of exposure.



Complications of dehydration
Dehydration can happen very quickly in babies and young children because they have less "extra" fluids in their body to lose.
Complications associated with dehydration vary depending on the LEVEL of fluid and electrolyte loss. Complications due to MILD dehydration are generally minor and reversible. Complications due to SEVERE dehydration can be permanent and life threatening if dehydration is NOT corrected quickly.
Complications of dehydration can include...
Thirst.
Electrolyte imbalance.
Confusion.
Drowsiness.
Loss of consciousness.
Hypovolemic shock. (This condition, which is also called 'physical collapse', is characterized by pale, cool, clammy skin. rapid heartbeat and shallow breathing.)
Temperature rises. (After temperatures reach 107 F (41.7 C) damage to the brain and other vital organs occur quickly.)
Kidney failure.
Severe brain damage.
Death.

 

[merlgerl]

Delirium makes sense to me because that's what happens when children become dehydrated in the elements. It can happen very quickly.

Those searchers probably didn't even make it into the area and begin fanning out before Jerold had already lay down to rest. He may have already succumbed to the elements before the SAR teams were fully operational. JMO

ETA: His mom and family searched for FOUR HOURS before they reported him missing at 5:30 pm. The search did not even get started until dark and continued throughout the first night. He may have died before the teams even got going the next morning. He was a very small little guy. It doesn't take much for a small child to die of exposure.



Complications of dehydration
Dehydration can happen very quickly in babies and young children because they have less "extra" fluids in their body to lose.
Complications associated with dehydration vary depending on the LEVEL of fluid and electrolyte loss. Complications due to MILD dehydration are generally minor and reversible. Complications due to SEVERE dehydration can be permanent and life threatening if dehydration is NOT corrected quickly.
Complications of dehydration can include...
Thirst.
Electrolyte imbalance.
Confusion.
Drowsiness.
Loss of consciousness.
Hypovolemic shock. (This condition, which is also called 'physical collapse', is characterized by pale, cool, clammy skin. rapid heartbeat and shallow breathing.)
Temperature rises. (After temperatures reach 107 F (41.7 C) damage to the brain and other vital organs occur quickly.)
Kidney failure.
Severe brain damage.
Death.

The temperature that night was 60 degrees. He was wearing hiking type boots, jeans, long underwear, and long sleeved denim type shirt. Reports state he disappeared around 2pm. They say he found the road, fs241,(doesn't say where he came out) and walked to where it meets fs240. That means where the 2 roads meet is 4 miles from the campground. How far from camp was he when he found fs241? I couldn't locate on map where fs240 meets fs241. But the main road into that area is Grand Canyon Highway and he goes right past where they were camping. Sorry but too much bothers me about little Jerolds story.

 

[katydid23]

The temperature that night was 60 degrees. He was wearing hiking type boots, jeans, long underwear, and long sleeved denim type shirt. Reports state he disappeared around 2pm. They say he found the road, fs241,(doesn't say where he came out) and walked to where it meets fs240. That means where the 2 roads meet is 4 miles from the campground. How far from camp was he when he found fs241? I couldn't locate on map where fs240 meets fs241. But the main road into that area is Grand Canyon Highway and he goes right past where they were camping. Sorry but too much bothers me about little Jerolds story.

RIGHT. It was 60 degrees that night. But he went missing at the heat of the day. And he wandered around for 5 or 6 hours before any one even arrived to search. By then, after walking in the heat, with no water or sustenance, wearing long underwear, long sleeved shirt and jeans, he was probably beginning to feel dehydrated. Young children, walking in the heat, with no fluids, begin to feel symptoms of heat stroke very quickly. So by that evening, it may have been too late already. The body begins to shut down. He may not have made it past midnight.

 

[merlgerl]

RIGHT. It was 60 degrees that night. But he went missing at the heat of the day. And he wandered around for 5 or 6 hours before any one even arrived to search. By then, after walking in the heat, with no water or sustenance, wearing long underwear, long sleeved shirt and jeans, he was probably beginning to feel dehydrated. Young children, walking in the heat, with no fluids, begin to feel symptoms of heat stroke very quickly. So by that evening, it may have been too late already. The body begins to shut down. He may not have made it past midnight.

I've been reading on hiking with children and from what I've read there is no way this tiny little boy made it 4 miles over rough terrain. Some 7 year olds could manage a 4 mile hike on a clean trail with an adult and plenty of breaks.