Found Deceased AZ - Jerold Williams, 5, Jacob Lake, 6 Aug 2015

[bluesneakers]

I've been reading on hiking with children and from what I've read there is no way this tiny little boy made it 4 miles over rough terrain. Some 7 year olds could manage a 4 mile hike on a clean trail with an adult and plenty of breaks.

Not even if he was panicked and running part of the way? How rough was the terrain he covered?
And what part of the four miles was on the road he was found near?

From Washington Trails Association:
"Children 5 to 7 years old can hike for 1 to 3 hours a day, covering 3 to 4 miles over easy trails."

If that's correct he could have gotten almost that far before they even made the 911 call.

 

[Inthedetails]

I've been reading on hiking with children and from what I've read there is no way this tiny little boy made it 4 miles over rough terrain. Some 7 year olds could manage a 4 mile hike on a clean trail with an adult and plenty of breaks.

But he did make it that far. What are you suggesting happened other than what LE discovered?

 

[katydid23]

Not even if he was panicked and running part of the way? How rough was the terrain he covered?
And what part of the four miles was on the road he was found near?

From Washington Trails Association:
"Children 5 to 7 years old can hike for 1 to 3 hours a day, covering 3 to 4 miles over easy trails."

If that's correct he could have gotten almost that far before they even made the 911 call.

He could absolutely make it that far. We took our young kids hiking every summer. And they had their own backpacks on. We would hike 3 to 6 miles per day, which included a long lunch break. When my girl was 4 she could keep up with her 8 yr old brother and do 5 miles a day, easily.


ETA:
What walking distance is acceptable for a 6-year-old?

We had a discussion in the family about how long of a walk can be taken with our 6-year-old daughter. We walked for 18.5 km (about 11.5 miles) and she was tired at the end, but after a 40 minute rest on the train she was full of energy again. Could this cause issues with her feet? Is there some norm for different ages?

http://parenting.stackexchange.com/...lking-distance-is-acceptable-for-a-6-year-old

 

[merlgerl]

But he did make it that far. What are you suggesting happened other than what LE discovered?

They talk about him finding a road and following it, they dont say where he came out on fr 241. One thought I had was he wasn't walking away from camp but trying to get back to camp. From where I don't know. Like I said Grand Canyon Highway ran right past their campsight. Maybe he'd been abducted and dropped off and was trying to find his way back.

 

[merlgerl]

He could absolutely make it that far. We took our young kids hiking every summer. And they had their own backpacks on. We would hike 3 to 6 miles per day, which included a long lunch break. When my girl was 4 she could keep up with her 8 yr old brother and do 5 miles a day, easily.

This is very rugged back country not a hiking trail.

 

[Inthedetails]

They talk about him finding a road and following it, they dont say where he came out on fr 241. One thought I had was he wasn't walking away from camp but trying to get back to camp. From where I don't know. Like I said Grand Canyon Highway ran right past their campsight. Maybe he'd been abducted and dropped off and was trying to find his way back.

To play along with your theory, if he were abducted, would the abductor hurt him? Or just abduct him and later release him without causing him any harm?

 

[bluesneakers]

This is very rugged back country not a hiking trail.

We don't know how long it took him to get from the campsite to where he was found though. We also don't know the path he took so we don't know how rough the terrain. It would be different if we knew he'd only been gone an hour or two, or if the only path he could have taken was rocky and uphill or something. But considering the terrain and the amount of time he was gone I think it's possible made it four miles. Especially if he was panicked and running even part of the way because I'm assuming the times given for children on hikes is the amount of time they cover while walking.

JMO.

 

[katydid23]

This is very rugged back country not a hiking trail.

But he was on the road for much of the hike.

 

[merlgerl]

To play along with your theory, if he were abducted, would the abductor hurt him? Or just abduct him and later release him without causing him any harm?

You never know what someone is going to do. There's many FS roads intertwining out there and he was found outside the calculated area.

 

[Inthedetails]

You never know what someone is going to do. There's many FS roads intertwining out there and he was found outside the calculated area.

But he was found without any indication that he was harmed by a person. So, if you have a theory about an abduction, why was he abducted and why was he released without LE able to find evidence of foul play?

 

[bluesneakers]

To play along with your theory, if he were abducted, would the abductor hurt him? Or just abduct him and later release him without causing him any harm?

The abductor didn't want to abduct him forever. So someone didn't want to take and keep him so much as someone wanted to get rid of him. I think that might be a theory to go along with the abductor scenario. It's not one I personally think is true.

 

[merlgerl]

But he was found without any indication that he was harmed by a person. So, if you have a theory about an abduction, why was he abducted and why was he released without LE able to find evidence of foul play?

The last article I read said "the search is over, now the investigation begins." That was said after the autopsy. Why would LE say that unless there was still questioned to be answered?

 

[Inthedetails]

The abductor didn't want to abduct him forever. So someone didn't want to take and keep him so much as someone wanted to get rid of him. I think that might be a theory to go along with the abductor scenario. It's not one I personally think is true.

So the abductor didn't want to hurt him and didn't hurt him, but wanted to get rid of him. Yet, the abductor dropped him off alive a few miles from where he went missing in the midst of many volunteers searching the area and then the boy died from exposure?

I'm not following you.

 

[menmo]

The last article I read said "the search is over, now the investigation begins." That was said after the autopsy. Why would LE say that unless there was still questioned to be answered?

To close the case. Surely there is always an investigation after a child dies.
Just my thoughts.

JMO

 

[bluesneakers]

So the abductor didn't want to hurt him and didn't hurt him, but wanted to get rid of him. Yet, the abductor dropped him off alive a few miles from where he went missing in the midst of many volunteers searching the area and then the boy died from exposure?

I'm not following you.

BBM: I think that was a theory someone had earlier that went along with him being abducted. It didn't make any sense to me either. As for the other questions, I don't know, because it's not my theory. Though there is some truth to the Lost Boys of FLDS, I think Jerold was too young to be one of them:

Lost boys (Mormon fundamentalism)

"Lost boys" is a term used for young men who have been excommunicated or pressured to leave polygamous Mormon fundamentalism groups such as the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (FLDS). They are pressured to leave by adult men to reduce competition for wives within such sects, usually when they are between the ages of 13 and 21.

eta:

One estimate is that between 400 and 1,000 boys and young men have been pressured to leave for such reasons.

Heartbreaking.

I'm not sure how they get them to leave. Do they just show them the door and say bye?

 

[gitana1]

The last article I read said "the search is over, now the investigation begins." That was said after the autopsy. Why would LE say that unless there was still questioned to be answered?

Nope. It wasn't said after the autopsy. Sheriff Gerry Blair made that statement on Monday, August 10, 2015, the day Jerold was found.http://www.azcentral.com/story/news...ays-later-still-searching-young-boy/31422145/

Jerold was autopsied the next day, on Tuesday. After the autopsy, that same day, Sheriff Blair stated initial autopsy results/investigation determined that the little boy died of exposure, found his way to FR 241 from FR 240, and apparently went off the road to "lay down and rest", where his body was found.

No indications of foul play.

The sheriff stated it is highly unlikely that Jerold could have survived the weather conditions at play when he went missing. http://abc30.com/news/autopsy-5-year-old-arizona-boy-likely-died-from-exposure/924804/Poor little lad.

EVERY case in which a child goes missing and is found dead leads to an investigation. Regardless of whether it is apparent from first glance that foul play is not an issue. In this case, it seems very clear that the investigation ended quickly upon a comparison of the discovery of the body and the autopsy results.

This case is over.

 

[gitana1]

This is very rugged back country not a hiking trail.

First of all, no. The child walked on two forest roads for 4 miles. Not through "rugged back country". Where did you get that?

Second, two year old Emmett Trapp wandered through extreme temperatures and rough terrain for several miles before succumbing. If he could do it, why is it impossible for a five year old to make that distance on a relatively flat road?:

"He went over hills, washes, and thickets. He went through a lot," Search and Rescue spokesman Jeff Newnum told ABC News affiliate ABC 15.

"All together, Emmett probably walked close to three or four miles," Newnum said. http://abcnews.go.com/US/TheLaw/emmett-trapp-wandered-off/story?id=11323106

 

[merlgerl]

First of all, no. The child walked on two forest roads for 4 miles. Not through "rugged back country". Where did you get that?

Second, two year old Emmett Trapp wandered through extreme temperatures and rough terrain for several miles before succumbing. If he could do it, why is it impossible for a five year old to make that distance on a relatively flat road?:

"He went over hills, washes, and thickets. He went through a lot," Search and Rescue spokesman Jeff Newnum told ABC News affiliate ABC 15.

"All together, Emmett probably walked close to three or four miles," Newnum said. http://abcnews.go.com/US/TheLaw/emmett-trapp-wandered-off/story?id=11323106

ACTUALLY Jerold was found just under 4 miles from camp as the crow flies and 8 miles by road (fs241)

 

[merlgerl]

Here's the area Jerold was camping in. FR241 is right there but I could not locate FR240, the road he supposedly walk out to. He was found under 4 miles from camp as the crow flies and more than 8 miles by road. They don't say where he came out onto FS 240.

 

[katydid23]

OK. So maybe he walked 8 miles by road. A 5 yr old is easily able to walk 8 miles.