GUILTY AZ - Shanesha Taylor leaves kids in car during interview, Scottsdale, 2014

[lawstudent]

Supervision/social services protection of American children is unquestionably more intense now than ever before, and almost certainly more intense than anywhere else in the world. People can disagree on whether it was okay, but it certainly has nothing to do with going backwards. Being able to watch your children constantly or have someone watching them is completely an expectation of modern American life due to the stability and resources of our society.

 

[Soulmagent]

That's what friends are for, Dogface. I don't know this woman's specific situation, but with two babies and no friends that she could count on for an hour babysitting, she's too isolated to be able to effectively parent.

If she has friends and family around but somehow felt too proud to ask for help, that's something she needs to work on. No one can parent in isolation, which is what she is trying to do.

This woman is 35 ,not 22 or 19.

The 2 year old was born when this woman was in her 30's?

Are there mental health issues or PPD that bought this on?


I assume she has been doing things in life for the last decade ,work ,living somewhere She had a car . I havent heard of any other children.

 

[nomoresorrow]

Several posters have expressed sympathy for the woman due to her homelessness, and poverty, and lack of support from a committed partner/ co-parent/ committed BF/ husband.

I would be interested to know what penalties, if any, they feel the woman should receive?

Do the more sympathetic among us believe the charges should be dropped all together?

Should she get her kids back with no supervision from social services or probation?

What do you all think is the "right" legal course of action?

I personally believe she should receive "some" jail time-- some amount of time from 30 days to less than a year seems appropriate to me, along with at least 5 years of supervision from parole and social services, to ensure the ongoing safety of the kids (assuming she does what she needs to do to get the kids back). She needs mandatory participation in parenting classes, and services to help her find stable housing, childcare, and a job. That's my opinion, but I don't know what kind of penalties she is facing from the felony charges.

:seeya: K_Z, While I'd like more family history information, I do (obviously) believe that Child Protection Services needs to be involved. And maybe I'm wrong (please correct me if so), but I don't think that there's any "real" defense to leaving your children unattended in a vehicle. I understand she has an attorney, however I think the most she can hope for is minimal jail time (or time served), court-ordered counseling/parenting classes, and extended CPS supervision/home-visits if she is to retain custody. As long as she doesn't have a history with CPS and nothing/no one else comes forward with allegations of child abuse and/or neglect, I think the court will work with her to help her get the necessary skills/supports in place that she needs to parent safely.

 

[tlcya]

There are very real and persistent social ills which force women into poverty and homelessness. Once there it can be a tough place to climb up from, especially without support of family, community, etc.

I am sympathetic to teh plights and problems faced by single mothers, trying their best to care for children in a patriarchal society where women make less, have greater demands and expectations as far as nurturing and childrearing than do men.

Bottom line for me tho. I do not have the answers to the social ills that cause women to be in these tenuous situations where tough choices must be made. What I do know, is leaving the kids in the car, at that age, for that time, unsupervised, for that length of time endangered the kids and was wrong and is not the answer to those social ills, it simply creates more.

:cow:

 

[tlcya]

I do not know that this woman needs jail or if probation and serious resources brought to bear would help turn this around. What I do know is it was dangerous to leave the kids in the car.

Our mothers did a lot of things out of what were the standards of the day. Some drank and smoked through pregnancy, we rode in cars with no seatbelts, we rod in trunks and truck beds, we roamed the streets from dawn to dusk in summers. We know now of dangers our mothers were not aware of.

I do not feel this woman is a terrible person. I feel she made a really bad, dangerous choice, I feel she had a good motivation but lost site of the end goal (caring for her kids short and long term) in her wish to go to this job interview and that IS cause for concerns.

 

[jjenny]

The temperature in the car reportedly got to a 100 degrees. If passerby didn't report her children being in the car (because baby was crying) who knows what would have happened to the children.
So I really don't understand why people are so willing to give this woman a pass. Children die every year after being left in cars. Should we collect money for everybody who leaves their kids in cars?
And what was she going to do with the kids if she did get the job?

 

[K_Z]

Here's a couple questions for any who might know.

Will the $91K+ raised online be considered her "asset" by the court when determining if she qualifies for a public defender?

What is the status of that money, if she has not taken possession of it?

At what point is that money available to her?

I think it's probably taxable. Does anyone know for sure?

Is this money something that could be considered "profiting from her crime"? If so, might she have to forfeit the money, or what would happen to it?

 

[lawstudent]

I do not know that this woman needs jail or if probation and serious resources brought to bear would help turn this around. What I do know is it was dangerous to leave the kids in the car.

Our mothers did a lot of things out of what were the standards of the day. Some drank and smoked through pregnancy, we rode in cars with no seatbelts, we rod in trunks and truck beds, we roamed the streets from dawn to dusk in summers. We know now of dangers our mothers were not aware of.

I do not feel this woman is a terrible person. I feel she made a really bad, dangerous choice, I feel she had a good motivation but lost site of the end goal (caring for her kids short and long term) in her wish to go to this job interview and that IS cause for concerns.

I agree with most of this, especially if it was 100 degrees in the car - I didn't realize it was that hot. Obviously, that presents a huge danger, although often parents are just really ignorant about it.

But I somewhat disagree that our mothers allowed things because they weren't aware of dangers.

The dangers of smoking and drinking, other than alcoholism, were definitely not known. And they are pretty exaggerated today, as evidenced by how many of us are basically okay. Smoking definitely can cause issues, and so can a lot of alcohol use, but people make it seem like one beer will cause your child to have 6 legs.

But I think people always knew of the dangers of car accidents - we just have better resources at our disposal now that make it convenient to keep our kids safer. I'm sure people knew that having young children swim alone, use guns, or work on farm equipment posed dangers, but they accepted those dangers for a long time because they didn't have the luxury of pools or supermarkets. And I don't believe roaming the streets now is at all more dangerous than it once was. We've just become more risk-averse with all the media coverage. I don't see how a mother who lets her kid roam now is worse than one who did so decades ago. It's all a matter of how practical it as the time and what others consider normal - if this woman was in a rough spot and saw others do it, I can't view her as being a bad mother. I do think she needs to be talked to about hot cars and maybe have some follow up CPS visits. If she learns from the mistake now, I hope everything works out.

 

[lawstudent]

Here's a couple questions for any who might know.

Will the $91K+ raised online be considered her "asset" by the court when determining if she qualifies for a public defender?

What is the status of that money, if she has not taken possession of it?

At what point is that money available to her?

I think it's probably taxable. Does anyone know for sure?

Is this money something that could be considered "profiting from her crime"? If so, might she have to forfeit the money, or what would happen to it?

It would be considered if she requests a public defender. Not sure when it is available to her. Gifts aren't taxable, but I think there's a limit on that - I'm guessing somehow it would be taxable, but I don't know at what rate. Profiting from your crime is selling your story or something else related. Donations wouldn't count. And I think you have to be convicted first.

 

[K_Z]

I agree with most of this, especially if it was 100 degrees in the car - I didn't realize it was that hot. Obviously, that presents a huge danger, although often parents are just really ignorant about it.

<snipped>

It's all a matter of how practical it as the time and what others consider normal - if this woman was in a rough spot and saw others do it, I can't view her as being a bad mother. I do think she needs to be talked to about hot cars and maybe have some follow up CPS visits. If she learns from the mistake now, I hope everything works out.

May I ask, do you think the charges should be dropped? What punishment, and conditions, if any, do you think are appropriate?

 

[jjenny]

She saw others do it? What others did she see?
Nobody suggested she saw anybody do it.
Follow up CPS visits? Where is CPS going to visit her?
As far as I can tell she is homeless and has no job.
I haven't seen any evidence this woman at this time can possibly take care of these children.

 

[K_Z]

Montgomery said it's too soon to determine if Taylor will receive a prison term or face losing custody of her children. Her offenses could amount to a sentence ranging from probation to seven years in prison, prosecutors said.

BBM.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/07/shanesha-taylor-left-kids-in-car_n_5106065.html

 

[MsFacetious]

I think the money should be donated to set up a childcare place in the area.
For anyone, regardless of income to drop children off at for situations like this. :twocents:

 

[K_Z]

She saw others do it? What others did she see?
Nobody suggested she saw anybody do it.
Follow up CPS visits? Where is CPS going to visit her?
As far as I can tell she is homeless and has no job.
I haven't seen any evidence this woman at this time can possibly take care of these children.

I agree. The safest and most stable place for the infant and toddler is in foster care right now. I hope the kids are together in foster care.

A safe and stable environment right now for the very young children takes precedence. ST has demonstrated that she can't care for them safely right now. And particularly with her legal situation, she needs a respite from childcare responsibilities and expenses until she is able to re-group.

 

[lawstudent]

May I ask, do you think the charges should be dropped? What punishment, and conditions, if any, do you think are appropriate?

I do not think leaving kids nearby in a car for less than an hour should be a crime in itself, but in hot weather there are obviously a lot more concerns. Why were the keys in the ignition but no air conditioning or fan was turned on? That adds more problematic elements to it. Abuse and neglect are broad terms that encompass many situations, so I can't really say what exactly should happen - it's all a matter of interpretation of the state laws.

I sympathize with her situation, and can maybe accept she was ignorant of the hot car issue. I think the hot car issue is not addressed well by punishment, because people do it out of ignorance, so they don't think they will get punished because they don't think anything will happen. It's much better to prevent it in the first place through education campaigns. Some people really just don't know. I think if anything, probation and visits from family services. Is she actually homeless?

The thing is, while obviously this women is not in a great position to be raising children, the answer can't always be jail her and remove the kids. We don't have endless great foster care homes. If the mother seems loving and open to bettering herself, but has become overwhelmed and made bad choices, I think they'd be better off living in a car for a while than put in foster care in many instances. Although, they are young enough to probably get a decent placement with a family, and she needs to demonstrate she can care for an infant.

 

[jjenny]

They would be better off living in car for while?
I seriously can't believe what I am reading here.
Especially considering this woman resides in AZ.
And summer is coming.
The temperature outside will get over 100 degrees. And that's outside.

 

[Karmady]

[modsnip]

jmo, but the arizona heat aspect of this has been overstated, imo. I don't know how it was concluded that the temp in the car was 100. But it was NOT Arizona hot in the past month. Temps have been markedly cool, just getting back to normal this week and making it into the 90's. Also, AZ heat is dry (I'm sure you've heard lol) not moist and humid. So 80 doesn't feel awful. Actually, anything in the 70's and low 80's feels kind of chilly to me -- no lie. Imo, no littles were dying from being left in a car for an hour last month. Anyone know where, specifically, this happened. jmo

 

[Linda7NJ]

She saw others do it? What others did she see?

Nobody suggested she saw anybody do it.

Follow up CPS visits? Where is CPS going to visit her?

As far as I can tell she is homeless and has no job.

I haven't seen any evidence this woman at this time can possibly take care of these children.

I agree with everything you wrote. I think living in Arizona she's quite aware how hot cars get inside.

I just wanted to add, CPS's job also includes wrap around services to help her get on her feet.




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[Linda7NJ]

jmo, but the arizona heat aspect of this has been overstated, imo. I don't know how it was concluded that the temp in the car was 100. But it was NOT Arizona hot in the past month. Temps have been markedly cool, just getting back to normal this week and making it into the 90's. Also, AZ heat is dry (I'm sure you've heard lol) not moist and humid. So 80 doesn't feel awful. Actually, anything in the 70's and low 80's feels kind of chilly to me -- no lie. Imo, no littles were dying from being left in a car for an hour last month. Anyone know where, specifically, this happened. jmo

I beg to differ on the whole dry heat doesn't feel as hot myth. I'm in NJ, I'm familiar with humid...been to Arizona where folks swore to me it was bare able because it was a dry heat...it was freaking HOT! 100 degrees is 100 degrees!!! Open your oven and stick your head in when it's hot.. That's dry heat...still HOT!

( I thought I would die in Arizona!)


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[K_Z]

Related to "she might not have known it would be hot in the car" and "she might not have known it was wrong to leave the baby and toddler alone in the car":

IMO, this isn't a knowledge deficit. No way. She isn't a recent immigrant from a polar climate, AFAIK.

Do you really think ST herself would sit in her own car for over an hour in 100 degree heat, in the sun, with the windows only down one inch? She must have thought it would get hot, or she wouldn't have bothered to roll down any windows one inch.

Why one inch?

IMO, because she knew leaving the windows down all the way would be DANGEROUS for her kids ALONE in the car. They could be abducted. Absolutely, she knew what she was doing was wrong, leaving them alone in the car, IMO.