AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #1

[oceanblueeyes]

It was not night. No one was sleeping anywhere. The step-mother was not home. The father was killed inside the house. The boarder who was on his cell with his wife was summoned by the boy yelling for him to come inside the house. When he did, he was also killed.

There is no law in AZ that requires a gun be kept locked. IMO there should be one.

Absolutely true. I would imagine the stepmother was at work when this happened.

I believe the reason that there is no law requiring that guns must be locked up as many citizens have complained if their weapons are locked up and they should need them for protection in case of a criminal trying to invade their homes to harm or even murder them then they would not be able to access their guns in time to prevent being harmed or killed.

I can understand that. If an intruder came into my home in the middle of the night and I had to sneak myself to another room, remember where the keys were or remember the combination to the lock at such a volatile time, my weapon would remain useless locked away leaving me and my family at the mercy of the criminal.

This happened to me about 20 years ago when my brother got up real early to go to work, who was living with us and found an intruder hiding in our home. I was so thankful that he thought fast and there was nothing restricting him from getting the shotgun out of the cabinet and loading it. He was able to do so and stopped the intruder in his tracks while I was in the back bedroom calling 911 to come ASAP! He had never pointed a weapon at another human being before and it was quite traumatic for all of us because my young son was also in the house with us. My husband had already left for work.

But I am glad that it turned out in our favor instead of the criminal's favor.

imo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

When you guys snipped the Mom article, you left out the following:


Ms. Bloomfield said that after her son told her that his father and
stepmother quarreled often, "I called Tiffany about that, and I think I got
my son into trouble."


"The next time I talked to him about it," she added, "he said that Tiffany
told him that 'what happens in this house stays in this house.' "

I think many other parents tell their children the same thing.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I was thinking the same thing. It doesn't sound like she spent that much time with the boy according to what the father's paperwork said. He has had the boy alone since the boy was 2 yrs old. The father isn't there to stand up for himself and so I will take everything the mother says worth a grain of salt. This dad was only 27 yrs old (?) when he was murdered. He took on the responsibility of his son at a young age which is rare for a male. It sounds like he was very protective of his son.

As far as the spanking goes due to leaving his school papers at school...I would bet that it had happened several times before and dad decided some punishment was in order this last time. Five swats isn't a big deal to me. What did she use....her hand? Spanking with your hand hurts you more then it does the kid! I spanked my kids if they really deserved it. That was in a generation where you could still spank your kids. In raising my granddaughter she got about three spankings in all of her growing up years. By then it was against the law to spank your children.

I certainly agree. By the report on the father seeking custody it is obvious that the bio mother was very lacking in her responsibilities to her child and his needs.

She knew he had underdeveloped lungs but she kept smoking around him anyway. Sure seems she did not want to sacrifice anything for the overall wellbeing of her child. She did not even see him but 2 weeks out of a year and a half when she went to MS. SHE is the one who chose to move away from him.

What I see know is a woman who is trying to rewrite history. I can certainly understand her being intimidated by Tiffany that was in the home 24/7 helping raise this boy so now she must try to unload all of her own demons and guilt and try to place it on Tiffany's shoulders.

Maybe he became distant with his bio mother because he was getting more and more use to having a mother in the home with him.

I know some, where that has happened. The parents will remarry and then the step parent becomes such an integral important part in their lives that they are not as clingy to their own bio parent that they don't see but maybe every two weeks on a weekend and in this case even longer periods of time.

We also have to remember this boy had to be very use to being around his step mom as she and his dad went together for two years before they married.

Without a doubt imo, his father only wanted the best of care for his only son. He fought for the right to see it was done.

imoo

 

[twinkiesmom]

It was not night. No one was sleeping anywhere. The step-mother was not home. The father was killed inside the house. The boarder who was on his cell with his wife was summoned by the boy yelling for him to come inside the house. When he did, he was also killed.

There is no law in AZ that requires a gun be kept locked. IMO there should be one.

I didn't say it was night....The only way a knife attack could have been attempted is if everyone was sleeping...and I don't think we'd have two dead bodies, much less three. The gun availability and training totally made this crime possible.

Everyone has homicidal thoughts....most homicidal thoughts don't get acted upon. Having an unsecured gun in the house (with children no less) just makes the transition from thought to action seamless.

 

[twinkiesmom]

Twinkies, by all accounts so far, this seemed to be a loving father.

We don't know he was a loving father. We know he was an attentive and authoritative father.

 

[southcitymom]

We don't know he was a loving father. We know he was an attentive and authoritative father.

Well - it's all opinion at this point of course, but in some of the articles, folks that know him as described him as a good man who loved his son. You believe (and I do too) that he was an attentive, authoritative father.

These facts coupled with the fact that the father fought for custody of a child whose mother seemed disinterested (and that's the kindest way to put it) in the child and the fact that the father dated his second wife for some time before introducing her into the child's life as a stepmother....all of this makes me comfortable saying that this man seemmed to be a loving father.

It is also interesting that the boy is described in articles by people who knew him as a good child with no history of behavior problems.

 

[twinkiesmom]

I can't get over the five swats for the missed assignment. Also the low birthweight and underdeveloped lungs at birth....

I wonder if the child has an undiagnosed learning disability and was punished for things he could not control? LD kids really start to show problems around third to fourth grade when the material starts becoming more difficult, the pace picks up, and they don't read well enough to read their textbooks.

Having the same expectations of an LD kid as you would of a regular same-age kid would be sure to produce rage.

 

[southcitymom]

I can't get over the five swats for the missed assignment. Also the low birthweight and underdeveloped lungs at birth....

I wonder if the child has an undiagnosed learning disability and was punished for things he could not control? LD kids really start to show problems around third to fourth grade when the material starts becoming more difficult, the pace picks up, and they don't read well enough to read their textbooks.

Having the same expectations of an LD kid as you would of a regular same-age kid would be sure to produce rage.

I hear you, twinkiesmom. I really do. I have friends with LD children and what you say is absolutely correct. But don't you think by 8, someone would have caught onto a LD or the boy would have been acting out because of an undiagnosed one? - my LD goddaughter was diagnosed when she was in 1st grade and my friend's son in 1st grade. Everyone said this was a good kid. Again - I would just have to know more before going there.

I'm not a good spanker/swatter. I always spanked when I was angry and always felt like hell afterwards and so I gave it up early in my parenting career. But spanking is common for some families and I can't really pass judgment on the swats without knowing more about them.

I can't get over the mother leaving after her son did this. Worthless.....

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Well - it's all opinion at this point of course, but in some of the articles, folks that know him as described him as a good man who loved his son. You believe (and I do too) that he was an attentive, authoritative father.

These facts coupled with the fact that the father fought for custody of a child whose mother seemed disinterested (and that's the kindest way to put it) in the child and the fact that the father dated his second wife for some time before introducing her into the child's life as a stepmother....all of this makes me comfortable saying that this man seemed to be a loving father.

It is also interesting that the boy is described in articles by people who knew him as a good child with no history of behavior problems.

That is true, many in that town have spoken highly about Vinnie and how loving he was to his only son. His love is shown as genuine as he fought to see that the boy had the best life possible which he certainly wouldn't have had if he had been given to his disinterested, neglectful bio mom.

It seemed this boy had a happy life. He had no problems in school. He loved to play football and soccer. His father had to support him when he wanted to do those fun things. He went fishing and hunting too. It seems he had a very good life where not only his dad was very well liked in the community but he was as well.

I still think when the psychological testing is done this boy will have a higher than average intelligence level.

I think all these things known in the town they lived in is what has completely shattered everyone there and they just do not understand why he would do something so cruel and heinous.

imoo

 

[southcitymom]

That is true, many in that town have spoken highly about Vinnie and how loving he was to his only son. His love is shown as genuine as he fought to see that the boy had the best life possible which he certainly wouldn't have had if he had been given to his disinterested, neglectful bio mom.

It seemed this boy had a happy life. He had no problems in school. He loved to play football and soccer. His father had to support him when he wanted to do those fun things. He went fishing and hunting too. It seems he had a very good life where not only his dad was very well liked in the community but he was as well.

I still think when the psychological testing is done this boy will have a higher than average intelligence level.

I think all these things known in the town they lived in is what has completely shattered everyone there and they just do not understand why he would do something so cruel and heinous.

imoo

Great post. I agree.

 

[MCDRAW]

I didn't say it was night....The only way a knife attack could have been attempted is if everyone was sleeping...and I don't think we'd have two dead bodies, much less three. The gun availability and training totally made this crime possible.

Everyone has homicidal thoughts....most homicidal thoughts don't get acted upon. Having an unsecured gun in the house (with children no less) just makes the transition from thought to action seamless.

I think it has to go deeper than an unsecured gun in the home. Years ago there were very few homes that had secured guns in the home. There was also less violence on TV. I think some of the blame must be placed on the violence on TV and on video games. Violence is pushed down kids throats everyday. I beleve some children have been programmed to go from thought to action without fully understanding the consequences. My son and husband hunted all the time when he was the same age as this boy. My son had the training and the availability but is not a killer. This has to go beyond training and availability and probably deeper than even the violence, that is shoved down their throats on a daily basis.

 

[SieSie]

<< snipped >>

Everyone has homicidal thoughts....most homicidal thoughts don't get acted upon. Having an unsecured gun in the house (with children no less) just makes the transition from thought to action seamless.

Um, I've never once in my life had a homicidal thought. I've had suicidal thoughts, but NEVER homicidal! I suppose in self-defense I MIGHT be able to harm another human being, but it would be pretty scary for me to think that "everyone" has homicidal thoughts!!

 

[MeoW333]

I think if the gun had not been available, he could have killed one of them but both in rapid succession? This is an 8-year-old and two grown men (not to mention the stepmom sleeping beside the dad). If one had fought back, another could have been alerted.

I wonder if this kid was exposed to violent video games as well as the shooting of the prairie dogs? I wonder if the boy was forced to "man up" at an early age? His dad rejected the BB gun for a 22....why?...not masculine enough? not lethal enough?

I agree; if the father had any question in his mind about giving his son a .22 (which he did since he had to ask a priest his opinion upon the matter; which shows he was unsure if his son should have one or not) then he should have got him a BB gun like the stepmother said. I guess the father just wanted to continue family tradition of .22's being handed down to the next generation. He could have waited a couple years and then run the question over in his head again.

 

[MeoW333]

That is true, many in that town have spoken highly about Vinnie and how loving he was to his only son. His love is shown as genuine as he fought to see that the boy had the best life possible which he certainly wouldn't have had if he had been given to his disinterested, neglectful bio mom.

It seemed this boy had a happy life. He had no problems in school. He loved to play football and soccer. His father had to support him when he wanted to do those fun things. He went fishing and hunting too. It seems he had a very good life where not only his dad was very well liked in the community but he was as well.

I still think when the psychological testing is done this boy will have a higher than average intelligence level.

I think all these things known in the town they lived in is what has completely shattered everyone there and they just do not understand why he would do something so cruel and heinous.

imoo

Was Vincent's nickname Vinnie? I take it as so.
That his bio mom was neglectful and obviously disinterested had to have affected the boy in a negative way. Maybe he didn't display his emotions outright. If the mother was drinking while pregnant; that would add to his problems. She's already showed lack of concern for him while smoking when he has a lung problem.

We have all these reports that he had no problems in school. Would they consider reporting he had bad grades as a problem in school?

If he is a sociopath; statisically speaking wouldn't there have been prior signs of some sort shown at school at the least?

This whole case boggles me..

 

[southcitymom]

<< snipped >>

Um, I've never once in my life had a homicidal thought. I've had suicidal thoughts, but NEVER homicidal! I suppose in self-defense I MIGHT be able to harm another human being, but it would be pretty scary for me to think that "everyone" has homicidal thoughts!!

I'm not given to homicidal thoughts either, but I think that most people have - at one time or another - felt angry or rageful enough to strike out and/or kill, however fleeting the actual thought might be. ( ie - even if the thought is simply a high-drama, teenaged "I wish my parents would die!" thing). I think that's what twinkiesmom was saying.

I think most of us have had such thoughts but I don't think most of us act on them.

 

[southcitymom]

Was Vincent's nickname Vinnie? I take it as so.
That his bio mom was neglectful and obviously disinterested had to have affected the boy in a negative way. Maybe he didn't display his emotions outright. If the mother was drinking while pregnant; that would add to his problems. She's already showed lack of concern for him while smoking when he has a lung problem.

We have all these reports that he had no problems in school. Would they consider reporting he had bad grades as a problem in school?

If he is a sociopath; statisically speaking wouldn't there have been prior signs of some sort shown at school at the least?

This whole case boggles me..

These are two big questions I have - why no signs? According to what we know so far, the child seemed well-adjusted and his father seemed to care about him a lot and everyone is in complete shock. Perhaps more will bubble to the surface.

 

[twinkiesmom]

I hear you, twinkiesmom. I really do. I have friends with LD children and what you say is absolutely correct. But don't you think by 8, someone would have caught onto a LD or the boy would have been acting out because of an undiagnosed one? - my LD goddaughter was diagnosed when she was in 1st grade and my friend's son in 1st grade. Everyone said this was a good kid. Again - I would just have to know more before going there.

It depends on how good a school district it is...and how proactive they are.

You have to remember that a really bright kid who has a learning disability may sail through first and second grade because he is smart and the work is not that difficult.

It's very common for true LD to show up later when the work gets harder and they can not just get by with what they remember from class.

Fetal alcohol effect does not have a typical presentation...It's really hard to get these kids services because they don't fit a particular mold.

I'm not saying this is a bad kid, I'm trying to come up with an explanation for the demonstrated rage other than writing this kid off as a sociopath at 8.

 

[twinkiesmom]

<< snipped >>

Um, I've never once in my life had a homicidal thought. I've had suicidal thoughts, but NEVER homicidal! I suppose in self-defense I MIGHT be able to harm another human being, but it would be pretty scary for me to think that "everyone" has homicidal thoughts!!

I said thoughts, not plans.

You've never had someone cut you off in their car and thought of ramming them?

 

[southcitymom]

It depends on how good a school district it is...and how proactive they are.

You have to remember that a really bright kid who has a learning disability may sail through first and second grade because he is smart and the work is not that difficult.

It's very common for true LD to show up later when the work gets harder and they can not just get by with what they remember from class.

Fetal alcohol effect does not have a typical presentation...It's really hard to get these kids services because they don't fit a particular mold.

I'm not saying this is a bad kid, I'm trying to come up with an explanation for the demonstrated rage other than writing this kid off as a sociopath at 8.

I truly appreciate your line of reasoning and hope I didn't come off otherwise!

I had to do a research paper on FAS and know a little bit about that too. And you are right that whether or not certain things were caught depends on the awareness of the adults around the child.

Let's assume for the sake of discussion that you are on the right track - even with that background, isn't the act of planning and killing two people at the age of 8 way over the top?

Believe me, I have a hard time writing this child off as a sociopath too!

 

[southcitymom]

I said thoughts, not plans.

You've never had someone cut you off in their car and thought of ramming them?

Lord knows my husband has. The really amazing thing is that human beings behave as well as we do given the often murky landscapes of our egos and psyches!