AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #1

Welcome to Websleuths!
Click to learn how to make a missing person's thread

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
I have been going over and over this in my mind and I cant come up with anything other then if the stepmom and dad where going though issues maybe he was scared his dad was running off another mother? I dont see how a happy unabused child of 8 would kill a perfectly good dad. At 8 my dad could do no wrong, and my dad was not a good dad.So if this boy was bonded wth the stepmom and afraid of loosing her, would it be that much of a leap to think he if was dead he would just live with her? In an eight year olds mind ?
 
These are two big questions I have - why no signs? According to what we know so far, the child seemed well-adjusted and his father seemed to care about him a lot and everyone is in complete shock. Perhaps more will bubble to the surface.

I'm waiting for more to bubble up, too. It's odd no one picked up any signs. I wouldn't imagine his school district is that big being that they are in a rural area. Everyone in the town either knows each other or is related in some way according to articles. In small towns; everyone knows each other's business usually.
No one saw this coming apparently..
 
I have been going over and over this in my mind and I cant come up with anything other then if the stepmom and dad where going though issues maybe he was scared his dad was running off another mother? I dont see how a happy unabused child of 8 would kill a perfectly good dad. At 8 my dad could do no wrong, and my dad was not a good dad.So if this boy was bonded wth the stepmom and afraid of loosing her, would it be that much of a leap to think he if was dead he would just live with her? In an eight year olds mind ?

That is a very interesting angle. The boy most likely has some abandonment issues do to his birth mother and her neglect to be more involved in his life.
 
<< snipped >>

Um, I've never once in my life had a homicidal thought. I've had suicidal thoughts, but NEVER homicidal! I suppose in self-defense I MIGHT be able to harm another human being, but it would be pretty scary for me to think that "everyone" has homicidal thoughts!! :eek:

That's me too SieSie.

Just isn't in me I guess. I don't even get that upset if someone cuts me off in traffic or someone is rude in a restaurant or store...I just stay calm. I am low key and easy going about 99% of the time. That is why my husband says when I do get upset every decade or so lol....everyone gets quiet as a mouse.:) They look at me as if to say "who in the heck is that woman?" lol

Heck even though I was abused as a child and in my first marriage I never had homicidal thoughts about them but I sure had thoughts about finding a way out.


imo
 
I have been going over and over this in my mind and I cant come up with anything other then if the step mom and dad where going though issues maybe he was scared his dad was running off another mother? I don't see how a happy unabused child of 8 would kill a perfectly good dad. At 8 my dad could do no wrong, and my dad was not a good dad.So if this boy was bonded with the stepmom and afraid of loosing her, would it be that much of a leap to think he if was dead he would just live with her? In an eight year olds mind ?

But aren't we assuming by saying he "ran" the bio mother off? Personally I don't think he had to run her anywhere. She certainly was very lacking and did not put her child first. And what does she do? She even moves out of State far away from him and for one and a half years she saw him for 2 weeks. If it comes out I wouldn't be surprised she didn't follow some dude to MS.

I think he killed his father because he was highly angry that he had told the step mom to swat him on the behind. This was directed at the father and it makes me wonder if Vinnie was shy about correcting his son and didn't want to spank him, himself.

I don't but much faith at all in what the bio mother has said. It is in her best interest to try to say that Vinnie and Tiffany were at odds and to place all the blame on Tiffany's shoulders. She has had to go back among those citizens that knows her past history and that she did not have custody of <redacted>.

I would love to hear Tiffany speakout. She really knows the truth of what went on in the home, not what the bio mom has said, that hadn't even been in his life there for years. From all accounts from the citizens that lived in that town Tiffany and Vinnie were very much in love. They were still in their honeymoon period with marrying in September.


imoo
 
I'm not given to homicidal thoughts either, but I think that most people have - at one time or another - felt angry or rageful enough to strike out and/or kill, however fleeting the actual thought might be. ( ie - even if the thought is simply a high-drama, teenaged "I wish my parents would die!" thing). I think that's what twinkiesmom was saying.

I think most of us have had such thoughts but I don't think most of us act on them.
I see what you're saying. I've gotten angry before, sure, but it still never led me to have a homicidal thought - I've never had the desire to harm someone, even by just punching them, let alone shooting or stabbing them, etc... Maybe I'm still just taking it too literally, lol. :crazy:


I said thoughts, not plans.

You've never had someone cut you off in their car and thought of ramming them?
I'm not trying to be argumentative, I know you didn't say plans, my reply said "thoughts" as well. :D

In your example, I might flip the person off, but I wouldn't want to "ram them" (harm, hurt or kill them, as in homicidal thoughts). I usually "turn the other cheek" actually, and it would take quite a lot to even get me to flip someone off, LOL.

No offense to your opinion was meant in my original reply, btw. :blowkiss:


That's me too SieSie.

Just isn't in me I guess. I don't even get that upset if someone cuts me off in traffic or someone is rude in a restaurant or store...I just stay calm. I am low key and easy going about 99% of the time. That is why my husband says when I do get upset every decade or so lol....everyone gets quiet as a mouse.:) They look at me as if to say "who in the heck is that woman?" lol

Heck even though I was abused as a child and in my first marriage I never had homicidal thoughts about them but I sure had thoughts about finding a way out.


imo
Thanks, OBE, I thought maybe it was just me that couldn't imagine having homicidal thoughts. LOL. I'm sorry to hear about your abusive childhood and first marriage - I'm glad you survived! :blowkiss:
 
I tried to quickly sift through the thread. The first couple days, I AM CERTAIN there were news reports of 'domestic' related calls to LE from the house. Anyone else hear / read that or am I dreaming?
 
I think the domestic calls to the house were perhaps from the first marriage.
 
I truly appreciate your line of reasoning and hope I didn't come off otherwise!:)

I had to do a research paper on FAS and know a little bit about that too. And you are right that whether or not certain things were caught depends on the awareness of the adults around the child.

Let's assume for the sake of discussion that you are on the right track - even with that background, isn't the act of planning and killing two people at the age of 8 way over the top?

Believe me, I have a hard time writing this child off as a sociopath too!

It is WAY over the top as the first symptom of an emotional disturbance...tells me that he was enormously bottled up....I think he planned this (if it was planned) during moments of extreme frustration, and this latest spanking was likely the trigger to set it in motion.

I would be shocked if this was a sociopath, because I think they are more cunning that this...If the boarder was left alive with the smoking gun in the house, would we even be discussing this child's guilt?

I think this child was emotionally isolated (being an only child entertaining himself primarily with video games) and probably feeling more like an outsider since his father's marriage.

I think he was made to grow up too soon....losing regular maternal contact at an early age, possible witness to domestic disputes, hunting and killing animals at a young age.

Schoolwise, I think there were tremendous expectations of this child that he could not or did not meet.

His dad was hands on but seemed more into getting the son into his hobbies rather than meeting the child at his own very young level (Chuck E Cheese, amusement parks, etc).

I think he knew what he was doing was wrong but couldn't appreciate the consequences of his actions at an adult level. IF he did have fetal alcohol effects, he may have had poor impulse control or may have been poorly grounded in reality.
 
His dad was hands on but seemed more into getting the son into his hobbies rather than meeting the child at his own very young level (Chuck E Cheese, amusement parks, etc).

The father was also portrayed as playing catch with his son, going to games, etc. As for Chuck E. Cheese, amusement parks, St. Johns, with a population of around 4,000, is rural America, far from any establishment like these.

Coronado Elementary School Profile:
http://www.publicschoolreview.com/school_ov/school_id/3320
 
It is WAY over the top as the first symptom of an emotional disturbance...tells me that he was enormously bottled up....I think he planned this (if it was planned) during moments of extreme frustration, and this latest spanking was likely the trigger to set it in motion.

I would be shocked if this was a sociopath, because I think they are more cunning that this...If the boarder was left alive with the smoking gun in the house, would we even be discussing this child's guilt?

I think this child was emotionally isolated (being an only child entertaining himself primarily with video games) and probably feeling more like an outsider since his father's marriage.

I think he was made to grow up too soon....losing regular maternal contact at an early age, possible witness to domestic disputes, hunting and killing animals at a young age.

Schoolwise, I think there were tremendous expectations of this child that he could not or did not meet.

His dad was hands on but seemed more into getting the son into his hobbies rather than meeting the child at his own very young level (Chuck E Cheese, amusement parks, etc).

I think he knew what he was doing was wrong but couldn't appreciate the consequences of his actions at an adult level. IF he did have fetal alcohol effects, he may have had poor impulse control or may have been poorly grounded in reality.

He is not going to be tried on an adult level even though this IS adult like crimes. He is being tried in juvenile court, isn't he?

I really don't think he was isolated. I bet he had plenty of friends his age. They even mentioned he went to a friend's house close by his own home when this happened. A family member there said there was about 114 cousins living in that area so he had loads of family and plenty of them had to be children his age imo.

We have no indication that any of the domestic calls involved violence. They may have been heated arguments between the bio mother and the father. She may have wanted to pick him up and he had already told her no, because he was sick or something. She or he may have called the police. It may have been over personal property disputes. Like if she came to get her things she would call the police to be there while she did.

I read on another site but cant verify its truthfulness but that he was asked why he kept shooting them and he was supposed to have said because they were still moving and quivering. If true that is chilling and I have yet to hear he is even remorseful for what he has done. That tends to make me wonder if some sociopathic traits are going on.

By 8 years old Joe Duncan was brutally raping little boys. He had no remorse.

Oh I bet his dad took him anywhere he wanted to go. I think Vinnie idolized his son and his happiness was important and so was him making good grades so he would be successful in life imo. I don't fault any parent for setting guidelines for their children to achieve. If they have no standards or expectations of them at all then I think it is the child that loses because of that.

imoo
 
OBE - do you believe this child is a sociopath? You clearly have no empathy for him. What do you believe led to this outcome? He has no obviously violent past or disciplinary issues outside the home. What do YOU believe led to this end? Just curious. I don't believe it's unreasonable for people to be looking for a reasonable explanation here. I'm quite sure no one wants to believe an 8 year old is a cold-blooded murderer. This was not a sexually deviant crime, so the Joseph Duncan reference is really not relevant...IMO.
 
OBE - do you believe this child is a sociopath? You clearly have no empathy for him. What do you believe led to this outcome? He has no obviously violent past or disciplinary issues outside the home. What do YOU believe led to this end? Just curious. I don't believe it's unreasonable for people to be looking for a reasonable explanation here. I'm quite sure no one wants to believe an 8 year old is a cold-blooded murderer. This was not a sexually deviant crime, so the Joseph Duncan reference is really not relevant...IMO.

100% Agreed! What does it say for us a society if we just slap a label on a child and not try to get to the core of what drove him to do this?
 
OBE - do you believe this child is a sociopath? You clearly have no empathy for him. What do you believe led to this outcome? He has no obviously violent past or disciplinary issues outside the home. What do YOU believe led to this end? Just curious. I don't believe it's unreasonable for people to be looking for a reasonable explanation here. I'm quite sure no one wants to believe an 8 year old is a cold-blooded murderer. This was not a sexually deviant crime, so the Joseph Duncan reference is really not relevant...IMO.

Hi Fairy,

I haven't seen any lack of empathy in OBE's posts on this subject. To me, she comes across as objective but not non-empathetic to the child, IMHO.

Just my 2 cents!
 
It is WAY over the top as the first symptom of an emotional disturbance...tells me that he was enormously bottled up....I think he planned this (if it was planned) during moments of extreme frustration, and this latest spanking was likely the trigger to set it in motion.

I would be shocked if this was a sociopath, because I think they are more cunning that this...If the boarder was left alive with the smoking gun in the house, would we even be discussing this child's guilt?

I think this child was emotionally isolated (being an only child entertaining himself primarily with video games) and probably feeling more like an outsider since his father's marriage.

I think he was made to grow up too soon....losing regular maternal contact at an early age, possible witness to domestic disputes, hunting and killing animals at a young age.

Schoolwise, I think there were tremendous expectations of this child that he could not or did not meet.

His dad was hands on but seemed more into getting the son into his hobbies rather than meeting the child at his own very young level (Chuck E Cheese, amusement parks, etc).

I think he knew what he was doing was wrong but couldn't appreciate the consequences of his actions at an adult level. IF he did have fetal alcohol effects, he may have had poor impulse control or may have been poorly grounded in reality.

I agree very much with your first paragraph. I also have trouble accepting hands down that he is a sociopath simply because he is consistantly described as a normal, activce, involved little boy with no school troubles identified.

As the mother of a 6 and 8 year old boys, I have to say that I believe hobbies are a very common and healthy way to be involved with a child that age - I don't think doing games and hobbies with children this age can be rightfully described as "not meeting them at their own level."

I cannot speak to his emotional isolation - he went to a child neighbor's house after the shootings and presumably he had friends at school and in his sports play (else I think we would have heard something to the extent of "he just never really fit in with the kids at school or in the neighborhood"). As we all know, plenty of accomplished sociopaths seem to fit in just fine but really are emotionally isolated. However - would an 8 year old have that ability? I just have a hard time seeing it.

I haven't heard mention of video games and can't speak to that. You may be right.

I definitely think that killing animals from a young age would be a super-dangerous past-time for a child who may already have emotional problems
or an anti-social personality. But again - so far, we haven't heard of him presenting as a child who was obviously emotionally disturbed.

We do agree, I think, that more than anything else - regardless of what label the psych community is going to eventually apply to this child - he is a child who needs and should get help. Some great pressure was building within him and I'm sure the divorce and perhaps feeling that he couldn't measure up in some way played a part in his explosion.

I keep returning to the simple fact that the vast majority of 8 year olds in similar or even "worse" psychological/emotional/spiritual/physical situations do not take a gun and shoot two adults dead. That fact leads me to believe that there is damage within this child beyond the confines of the situation that lead to his crime. And once again, in circular unanswerable fashion, the questions becomes, why didn't anyone notice something?
 
100% Agreed! What does it say for us a society if we just slap a label on a child and not try to get to the core of what drove him to do this?

Hi Ms Pooh,

I am hard-pressed to think this child won't eventually be confined to some sort of psych institution where they will spend many years with him working to get to the core of what he did. There's no part of me that believes he'll just be thrown in juvey and forget about him until he's 18. Maybe I';m too pie in the sky about this but I believe our system still recognizes that this is a disturbed child.
 
The frightening thing is that if this boy is placed in the juvenile system, which IMO will happen, when he turns 18, he will have no record. Will years of therapy insure with 100% accuracy that he will be well enough to be in society?

Some divorce details:
http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/...11108-divorce-details-2x-murde.1a37a0964.html

Heartbreaking.

As far as the - "if he goes to juvey and gets psych help, can he change?" question - I guess that depends completely on him. I believe that some very young children who commit heinous crimes can indeed change and some can't - same as anyone.
 
OBE - do you believe this child is a sociopath? You clearly have no empathy for him. What do you believe led to this outcome? He has no obviously violent past or disciplinary issues outside the home. What do YOU believe led to this end? Just curious. I don't believe it's unreasonable for people to be looking for a reasonable explanation here. I'm quite sure no one wants to believe an 8 year old is a cold-blooded murderer. This was not a sexually deviant crime, so the Joseph Duncan reference is really not relevant...IMO.

We have no idea what this boy is. The evaluations have not been completed on him yet that I am aware. I listed JD because of the age of capability.

I have great sympathy for the two men he murdered and yes, it was in cold blood. Laying in wait is just about as cold as it can get, hence this is why he is being charged with First Degree Double Homicides.

All I know is if this is true and he murdered these men because he became angry enough to kill, then God help all of the other parents out there that also make their children very angry at times when trying to raise them.

I do understand perfectly why others want to blame someone else other than the defendant in this case. It makes it much more acceptable and I have never said that anyone is not entitled to their own opinions and never will, however; I am also entitled to my own opinion.

imoo
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
155
Guests online
1,557
Total visitors
1,712

Forum statistics

Threads
606,375
Messages
18,202,837
Members
233,830
Latest member
Missnurse09
Back
Top