AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #1

[MissieMt]

At first they weren't interviewing him as the suspect but as a witness. No Miranda warning required. He told them he came in and found them dead.....so they had every right to question him about what he told them. I don't fault them for knowing quickly he was lying.

I don't believe all the drama that the defense attorney tries to put out in the media but he is just doing his job and I realize that but in the end I highly doubt they will even need this boy's confession anyway. LE commented that they base this case on the evidence they have uncovered.

imo

I'm not sure where it says they took him in for questioning solely as a witness, if you know which article says that can you please re-post the link? I must have just skimmed over it because everything I read says pretty much the same thing:

"They became very accusing early on in the interview," Brewer said. "Two officers with guns at their side, it's very scary for anybody, for sure an 8-year-old kid."

The new article anthrobones just posted has a lot of great info.

 

[MeoW333]

If abuse was happening in the home concerning this boy then CPS would have complaints on it.

None were ever lodged against this father.

imoo

Not true at all. I was an abused child; my mother made threats to me about telling anyone. Hence i told guidance counselors everything was fine etc. CPS never had my records; although they should have. Many abusive parents use mind control as well and threaten worse things to happen if a child tells.

 

[MeoW333]

Physical abusers usually do leave marks. But it depends on the abusers where those marks might be. Many times an abuser will concentrate on the legs and torso so that the bruises will be covered by clothing. Any stray bruises could be explained by the boy being clumsy.

And 8 year olds think differently than adults. They may think kill, but they mean it differently than adults do. They mean it as a temporary solution rather than a permanent one. Also kids don't have the experience to see other solutions to their problems. Calling CPS himself? That means talking to another adult about what was happening to him, and who would believe a kid rather than his father? And they are adults and adults are the ones who let him down.

I haven't read the articles, but I saw somewhere there may have domestic violence in the home with the wife? Then she left the home and left the child there. Father abusive to the son that the mother left behind? Why would he trust that things would get better or that anyone would help him? If this is the situation my guess would be that the child didn't feel he had any other choice.

All of this is so true..

An 8 year old would think it a temporary solution; not thinking of the long term effect. They can't think things through all the way. The boy was unable to hide that he murdered 2 people. Even though he was able to plan enough how to kill them; the aftermath of killing them he did nothing to cover it up. He went to the neighbors and said he "believed his dad was dead".
A knowledged criminal would either set the house ablaze; move bodies; clean up the mess. A child wouldn't think that far. So although he was able to kill them both (being that he has gun experience) he didn't attempt to deal with the aftermath of killing them.

 

[Salem]

This is a very interesting, yet sad situation. I can not believe an 8-year old would murder his father and a boarder in cold blood without some provacation. All of the articles indicate the boy had no discipline issues, not even at school. Most children with mental illness do have some issues at school - they can't sit still, they are disruptive, they don't get along with others - something.

So..... I'm thinking maybe dad and the boarder were teasing the child, relentlessly. Maybe they went overboard with making the child feel small?

Or maybe biomom put the kid up to it so she could regain custody (wouldn't be the first time a mom encouraged her child to kill the other parent)? Or maybe he is covering for the biomom and the child did not really pull the trigger? Or maybe the child was living in an abusive environment and when (if) the stepmom left, the child felt helpless?

This is pure speculation of course. I have seen nothing written about any stepmom, just something about domestic violence at the address. I put that together with the info that biomom lives out of state to infer that the dv issues were with a stepmom.

I don't believe this child shot these men on a whim. There is more to this story, we are just not hearing it yet.

Salem

 

[spector]

This is a very interesting, yet sad situation. I can not believe an 8-year old would murder his father and a boarder in cold blood without some provacation. All of the articles indicate the boy had no discipline issues, not even at school. Most children with mental illness do have some issues at school - they can't sit still, they are disruptive, they don't get along with others - something.

So..... I'm thinking maybe dad and the boarder were teasing the child, relentlessly. Maybe they went overboard with making the child feel small?

Or maybe biomom put the kid up to it so she could regain custody (wouldn't be the first time a mom encouraged her child to kill the other parent)? Or maybe he is covering for the biomom and the child did not really pull the trigger? Or maybe the child was living in an abusive environment and when (if) the stepmom left, the child felt helpless?

This is pure speculation of course. I have seen nothing written about any stepmom, just something about domestic violence at the address. I put that together with the info that biomom lives out of state to infer that the dv issues were with a stepmom.

I don't believe this child shot these men on a whim. There is more to this story, we are just not hearing it yet.

Salem

I agree. A child of 8 can recognize right from wrong, no doubt about it. But a child of 8 does not have the mental capacity to recognize the gravity of their actions. And yes, there are 8 year old sociopaths and psychopaths, but there are normally signs well before something like this happens.

When a mother kills her children, people often demand to know why the father or other family members did not recognize the signs. No one has questioned that in this case.

 

[Salem]

Well I question what both the biomom and the stepmom (if there was one) were doing. I just don't see, based on what we know now, this child shooting and killing two people without a reason. In fact, I don't see him shooting and killing 2 people. I really, really, think someone else is involved here, either doing some of the actual shooting or putting the child up to it.

I'm hoping that we get more info on what was happening here.

Salem

 

[colette]

This is not your typical 8 year old. His dad "was an avid hunter who taught his son how to use a rifle to kill prairie dogs". He knew those prairie dogs were not getting back up.
Oh I'm sure he didn't foresee all the ramifications, but he did know what death was.

 

[colette]

He most likely had gunshot residue on his hands and other evidence. I hope LE does know what they are doing. I'm sure everyone will be watching this case closely.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Not true at all. I was an abused child; my mother made threats to me about telling anyone. Hence i told guidance counselors everything was fine etc. CPS never had my records; although they should have. Many abusive parents use mind control as well and threaten worse things to happen if a child tells.

I was abused as a child from the age of 5 until the age of 15. I never told anyone and certainly wouldn't have a guidance counselor however all the signs were there they just didn't pay much attention to them back then like they are trained to do now. I was shy, withdrawn, a fraidy cat scared of my own shadow,sickly, my grades waxed and waned due to the amount of stress and fear I was under.

However there was someone who did call the social service offices about my maltreatment and even though I was not removed from the home it was on record.

I just cannot fathom his real mother would leave him there if he was being abused. If that were true she would have used this information to fight him for custody of the child. I get the impression that he has had full custody for some length of time. I do believe she loves her son or she wouldn't have traveled all the way from MS in order to see him. She had just seen him and if he was being abused imo she would have contacted the police because this would be a perfect reason to regain custody of him.

They will check out the abuse angle but as of now there is nothing that shows abuse and even if there was it is no license to kill two other human beings. With children to day the reason can be as nonsensical as they come. We will have to wait and see.

 

[SoobsinMI]

Jumping in, long time reader, new poster.

The co-worker rented a room from the father, so he lived there as well. There were domestic calls to the house, but nothing from CPS about the child. Not that CPS is on the ball, in most cases. Personally, I believe this child was abused. We'll have to wait and see. The police chief has said that they are looking into allegations of abuse, because "He's 8 years old. He just doesn't decide one day that he's going to shoot his father and shoot his father's friend for no reason. Something led up to this."

Apparently, the child shot the men, then went to a neighbor and said "I think my father is dead." He had NO previous issues with violence, not even disciplinary problems at school.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2008/11/08/20081108stjohns.html

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I'm not sure where it says they took him in for questioning solely as a witness, if you know which article says that can you please re-post the link? I must have just skimmed over it because everything I read says pretty much the same thing:

The new article anthrobones just posted has a lot of great info.

Well at first they did not suspect him. They thought he had found his father's body. They would want to talk with him about that as he was a witness in the case.

I am from the South where hunting is a family tradition down here. Many younger boys and girls use 22 rifles to hunt small game like rabbits or squirrels. So him having a 22 rifle isn't unusual for me.

I have even used my 22 to kill snakes.

Our little nephew this morning shot his first 9 point buck deer.

Since the father was concerned enough to ask the Priest I have no doubt that he diligently taught his son proper gun safety. Fathers/Mothers/Sons and Daughters have bonded by the experience of enjoying nature and learning to kill and process what they eat instead of it coming from a grocery store where it can be filled with additives that aren't healthy and even downright dangerous.

He took what was supposed to be a small game weapon and turned it into a murder weapon against two human beings.

imoo

 

[spector]

Well at first they did not suspect him. They thought he had found his father's body. They would want to talk with him about that as he was a witness in the case.

I am from the South where hunting is a family tradition down here. Many younger boys and girls use 22 rifles to hunt small game like rabbits or squirrels. So him having a 22 rifle isn't unusual for me.

I have even used my 22 to kill snakes.

Our little nephew this morning shot his first 9 point buck deer.

Since the father was concerned enough to ask the Priest I have no doubt that he diligently taught his son proper gun safety. Fathers/Mothers/Sons and Daughters have bonded by the experience of enjoying nature and learning to kill and process what they eat instead of it coming from a grocery store where it can be filled with additives that aren't healthy and even downright dangerous.

He took what was supposed to be a small game weapon and turned it into a murder weapon against two human beings.

imoo

I grew up with guns, but they were locked up. My brothers were not allowed to hunt alone. My father was more worried about us shooting ourselves or each other accidentally than he was about us shooting him. But, I don't think kids have changed that much. Aristotle used to complain about "today's youth."

 

[SeriouslySearching]

This is a CHILD! I am horrified they would charge him with a double Homicide! Just horrified!

He isn't some monster. He is a little boy who doesn't even know about half the things in which decisions are made between right and wrong muchless have the capacity to understand the ramifications of such. If his father taught him how to kill...why is anyone surprised he would resort to this given circumstances we aren't privy to? When children see and are taught no respect for the life of an animal at such an early age...how does the child then apply it towards respect for other living things?

Try him as an adult?! WTH?! You bet I will be watching this case! This is absurd.

 

[txsvicki]

Killing prairie dogs at age 8 (no offense to hunters), divorces, no mom around, stepmom left, domestic calls to the house. Sounds like some problems to me. There must be some reason the boy did this. Maybe with all the stuff going on upsetting this child's life it would have been a good idea to not have had guns around.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I grew up with guns, but they were locked up. My brothers were not allowed to hunt alone. My father was more worried about us shooting ourselves or each other accidentally than he was about us shooting him. But, I don't think kids have changed that much. Aristotle used to complain about "today's youth."

Now I do agree with that. Growing up our guns weren't locked up but children knew under no uncertain terms they were not to touch the guns and they didn't. Kids were very disciplined back then and did abide by the rules. Kids are very different now and yes, I do believe "todays youth is changing". Look how we see more and more of these young killer murders where they wipe out their entire family and recently it has had nothing at all to do with abuse.

Our guns now however are locked up.

And you are right. No father/mother would let their young child hunt alone. They are with them at all times and the parents are the ones who goes and gets the weapon.... the child doesn't and the parents returns the weapon to its place. At least that is the way it works down here. Our family kills nothing unless they fully expect to process the meat for consumption.

imo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

This is a CHILD! I am horrified they would charge him with a double Homicide! Just horrified!

He isn't some monster. He is a little boy who doesn't even know about half the things in which decisions are made between right and wrong muchless have the capacity to understand the ramifications of such. If his father taught him how to kill...why is anyone surprised he would resort to this given circumstances we aren't privy to? When children see and are taught no respect for the life of an animal at such an early age...how does the child then apply it towards respect for other living things?

Try him as an adult?! WTH?! You bet I will be watching this case! This is absurd.

I don't know where you get they are going to try him as an adult. They aren't. If tried at all it will be in juvey court.

Are you saying that because someone kills wild game to process and eat instead of having it processed from the slaughter house to the grocery store that they are somehow going to become murderers of human beings?

Do you realize that there are millions of legal game hunters every year in this country that does just that and because they do the population in each animal classification is much healthier because of it. Overpopulation is the worst thing that can happen to them. It causes them to starve for food and become sickly, destroy crops and it drives them out onto the roadways where they are killed and they in turn kill human beings too.

LE said this boy planned to do this. So if that was so, should parents remove all knives from the kitchen or bludgeoning objects like baseball bats just to insure they are not murdered by their own child?

Where are your figures supporting that people who are taught to use guns to hunt have no respect for living things?.......just because people legally hunt and are taught how to use weapons they then will become a murderer of a human being?

Only one person in this case took a gun intended for small game hunting and turned it into a murder weapon against another human being and that is the murderer and certainly not the victims.

imoo

 

[Linda7NJ]

If abuse was happening in the home concerning this boy then CPS would have complaints on it.

None were ever lodged against this father.

imoo

Physical abuse yes....sexual abuse is another whole ballgame.

 

[Linda7NJ]

A child of that age knows right from wrong to a certain level. They do not have the experience of knowing the ramifications of their choices or how large it could be. They simply do not have that age reasoning yet. Children at that age are learning. They cannot be expected to have even young adult minds. It's not possible.

I will still wait for more info/history before I can throw an eight year old away as a criminal who knew what he was doing and what it meant.

imo

I disagree with your fist paragraph. If that were true..........there would be thousands of 8 year olds stabbing mommy & daddy to death because they were angry at them.

The second paragraph, I agree with. I need lots more info on this one. The kid, as far as we know now...........was basically good normal child.

 

[Linda7NJ]

All of this is so true..

An 8 year old would think it a temporary solution; not thinking of the long term effect. They can't think things through all the way. The boy was unable to hide that he murdered 2 people. Even though he was able to plan enough how to kill them; the aftermath of killing them he did nothing to cover it up. He went to the neighbors and said he "believed his dad was dead".
A knowledged criminal would either set the house ablaze; move bodies; clean up the mess. A child wouldn't think that far. So although he was able to kill them both (being that he has gun experience) he didn't attempt to deal with the aftermath of killing them.

Lots of adults are crappy at the cover-up.

 

[Linda7NJ]

This is a CHILD! I am horrified they would charge him with a double Homicide! Just horrified!

He isn't some monster. He is a little boy who doesn't even know about half the things in which decisions are made between right and wrong muchless have the capacity to understand the ramifications of such. If his father taught him how to kill...why is anyone surprised he would resort to this given circumstances we aren't privy to? When children see and are taught no respect for the life of an animal at such an early age...how does the child then apply it towards respect for other living things?

Try him as an adult?! WTH?! You bet I will be watching this case! This is absurd.

WOW! I am not a hunter......

But none of us would be here if killing animals meant having no respect for human life