AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #1

[Fermi]

I have read all 14 pages of this thread and most of the links. And a few things are troubling me so, I thought I would throw them out:

The bio-mom and the dad were engaged in a custody dispute two years ago; the dad and step-mom started dating two years ago. Shortly after bio-mom moves; so, this little boy lost bio-mom/gained girlfriend turned step-mom at approximately the same time. Big Change.

Bio-mom moved to Mississippi; does anyone know if she had a job that transferred her there? Is that where her family lives? It is quite possible that this move was pending and she was trying to gain primary custody in order to take her son with her and not leave him, as has been suggested.

Also, I have seen several comments condemning bio-mom for only seeing her son two weeks (14 days) out of the last year and a half. She states that she spoke with her son weekly and saw him every month (which would equal approximately that two weeks). I think it shows how much she loved her son that she would make a 1,500 mile trip (3,000 round trip) on an almost monthly basis.

And lastly, this boy used a .22. Not exactly a 'stopping-power' weapon and one that had to be reloaded for each shot. How is it that two grown men were not able to take this gun away from him? Unless the first shot hit a vital organ or major artery, I would think that in the time it took him to reload, one of these men could have tackled him before he got off the next round. :waitasec:

My heart goes out to everyone who was affected by this tragedy.

 

[lizzybeth]

I really don't put much weight in what the neglectful bio mom has to say about a household she did not live in. The step mom has not come out and spoken and there are always two sides to the story. It makes no sense that they were together for two years before they married and then be fighting just a month or two after they got married. From all accounts Vincent and his wife were very much in love and wanted to make sure they had a long lasting commitment. IIRC, the Priest talked about their relationship. I would think they all as a family attended the Church on a regular basis so many people would be able to see how this family interacted with each other. (The dad, the step mom and the boy) I think if this boy was unhappy it would have played out at school someway. There would be some signs that he was sad or awfully quiet but from all accounts he was a very active kid who loved school and to play sports.

I do understand that she is trying to find excuses for her son. She sure owes him support now for she never gave it to him before now. Guilt has a way of distorting the truth and placing blame on someone else may take her mind off of the way she was a very poor almost non existent bio mother most of his life.

If he is of higher intelligence and mature for his age then I do think it is highly likely this was sparked by his uncontrollable anger. We have seen other young killers murder for the same reason when they became enraged at their parents about something.

He does strike me as quite smart. He knew it was best to eliminate any witnesses. He knew what to say to lure the coworker into the home. He knew to make up excuses why gunshot residue would be all over his clothes. He knew to kill his father when no one was in the house. I feel he may have already had the weapon out before the father came home from work and his father never saw it coming.

imo

Excuse me but some of the most dysfunctional families go to church and appear like the perfect family to outsiders. BTW, my parents fought like they hated each other and sometimes told each other that, but they stayed married and appeared happy to everyone (but the kids) for almost fifty years.

I do take what the bio-mom says with a grain of salt but so far that's all the information we have. The step-mom isn't talking, why?

Maybe the kid is an evil little b*s****. I don't know. Obviously what he did was evil. I'm just giving my opinion from what I've read.

 

[fran]

I have been watching this case unfold and reading all of the comments made. I honestly don't know what to say. Like others have said, an 8 yo boy does not suddenly wake up one day and decide, 'I'm going to kill dad today.' Just doesn't happen, imho.

I believe LE has a LOT to do with regard to investigating this case. I pray that they aren't going to just go along with this 'alleged' confession and consider it case closed. This is a young life they're dealing with here and by all accounts, it appears some day he's going to be released. I trust they will do the RIGHT thing and make sure they do not leave any stone unturned in their investigation.

Just FWIW and IMHO, just because the dad fought hard to maintain custody of his son, does NOT mean he was the perfect father. Also, by outward signs, it is NOT necessarily indicative of what went on behind closed doors. LE owes it to the victims, to the boy and all involved, to get to the truth of the matter. Gossip and innuendo isn't enough, LE needs to KNOW the facts,........TRUE facts.

Just keep in mind that the bio mom said her son had changed over the past few months,................SINCE he had told his mom of his dad and stepmom fighting and the bio-mom talking to the step-mom and the step-mom telling the son, 'what goes on here, stays here,' or something of that sort. FWIW, from personal experience with acquaintances, THOSE are 'common words' used by abusers.

We NEVER know what goes on behind closed doors.

As for the bio-mom not caring about her son,.........I do NOT see that here. Not at all.

Perhaps some day we'll hear the TRUE story of what happened here. As of now, I believe we just have scratched the surface. Too sad it had to end up with two people dead.

JMHO
fran

PS......Please keep in mind, I'm NOT accusing ANYONE of abuse or anything else. I just believe there's more to this story than we've seen. There were people living behind those closed doors and those that lived behind those doors are the only ones who can tell us what happened.......fran

 

[oceanblueeyes]

OBE - I didn't mean to seem accusatory in my last post at all and I apologize if I came across that way. I was really just interested in your point of view, which I appreciate entirely. I am normally an advocate for victims of murder as well. However, in this particular case, I am going to wait for more info on the "murderer." Of course, I don't want to believe that an 8 year old kid is capable of premeditated, cold-blooded murder. We have all seen enough cases of abhorrent child abuse on these boards to know what people are capable of doing to their own babies. There have been many times when I wish the babies being hurt could have shot their abusers. I am just not willing - yet - to buy into the story that this little boy killed his father and boarder because he was spanked by his stepmother. Just doesn't add up to me.

I do realize that, Fairy and you have nothing to apologize for. I do understand why my posts may not go over well with other posters but I also know that I must be honest in what my opinions are even if they are met with frustration by some.

Yes, we have seen some of our society's children grossly abused and worse and no one is harder on the adult(s) whether it be a mother or father or both who did it, than I am, when we discuss those tragic cases.

But then I do also have to take in consideration other cases we have seen that also ended in horrific tragedies that were done by young people who did kill because they became angered at their parents for whatever foolish reason and the majority of them lately have had nothing to do with abuse.

So I continue to believe that the anger factor may have been what triggered this. Maybe he had not ever been disciplined much by his father and the 5 swats given to him threw him into a fit of anger he had never felt before.

imoo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Excuse me but some of the most dysfunctional families go to church and appear like the perfect family to outsiders. BTW, my parents fought like they hated each other and sometimes told each other that, but they stayed married and appeared happy to everyone (but the kids) for almost fifty years.

I do take what the bio-mom says with a grain of salt but so far that's all the information we have. The step-mom isn't talking, why?

Maybe the kid is an evil little b*s****. I don't know. Obviously what he did was evil. I'm just giving my opinion from what I've read.

I would think the stepmom is still reeling from losing her husband and his friend. Having to attend two funerals is rough especially under these circumstances. Also there is a gag order in place and I am sure that all the LE agencies involved now has told her to not speak out publicly about what she knows.

imoo

 

[Fermi]

I agree Fran...I think there is much we do not know. I am not accusing anyone either but, as you said, one never knows what goes on behind closed doors.

I have not read anywhere whether the step-mom lived with them prior to marriage or, if she had moved in with them in September. People can change once they have that piece of paper and I wonder if that is the case here; they married, she moved in, things went downhill.

Something happened and I simply do not think it was a one-time spanking over school papers. There is just so much we don't know.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I have read all 14 pages of this thread and most of the links. And a few things are troubling me so, I thought I would throw them out:

The bio-mom and the dad were engaged in a custody dispute two years ago; the dad and step-mom started dating two years ago. Shortly after bio-mom moves; so, this little boy lost bio-mom/gained girlfriend turned step-mom at approximately the same time. Big Change.

Bio-mom moved to Mississippi; does anyone know if she had a job that transferred her there? Is that where her family lives? It is quite possible that this move was pending and she was trying to gain primary custody in order to take her son with her and not leave him, as has been suggested.

Also, I have seen several comments condemning bio-mom for only seeing her son two weeks (14 days) out of the last year and a half. She states that she spoke with her son weekly and saw him every month (which would equal approximately that two weeks). I think it shows how much she loved her son that she would make a 1,500 mile trip (3,000 round trip) on an almost monthly basis.

And lastly, this boy used a .22. Not exactly a 'stopping-power' weapon and one that had to be reloaded for each shot. How is it that two grown men were not able to take this gun away from him? Unless the first shot hit a vital organ or major artery, I would think that in the time it took him to reload, one of these men could have tackled him before he got off the next round. :waitasec:

My heart goes out to everyone who was affected by this tragedy.

I believe she moved away to MS at least 3 and a half years ago. The boy would have been about 4 years old. The custody papers were filed two years ago and in it the father states then that in one and a half years she did not see the child but 2 weeks when she moved to MS. So it seems she left at least 3years or more ago for him to notate that in custody papers.

It would be interesting to know if she too had family in the same town left there. I got the impression she was from the same town as he lived in. At first it seems she left and went to another AZ town where she lived with her boyfriend. I have forgotten the name of the town though, something like Summerville? but that may not be the name. Maybe her boyfriend lives in MS now. Maybe he is in construction and they moved to MS to gain work due to the hurricane that happened in that area. If she is with the same guy that lived in a travel trailer then most likely he moves onto where other work is needed and more plentiful.

Since the father was laying face down on the stairs I would gather that he was shot from the back and the first shot was to a vital area that brought him down and the boy shot 3 additional times to make sure he was dead. Rifles are for long range distances. They become much more lethal when fired from a short range very close up.

They said the shooting of the father happened in the upper floor and the door was shut. Since Mr. Romans was outside the home talking on the phone with his wife, he did not hear any shots or imo he would have told his wife. His wife said she could hear the boy calling him to come inside the home. The boy had to already be positioned, watching Mr. Romans approaching the home and had to have the weapon loaded and ready. Imo he was killed before entering so that Mr. Romans wouldn't be able to see the body of the father laying there, alerting him that something was very wrong and that he needed to get the h*ll out of there to save his own life.

I don't think either men saw this coming.

imoo

 

[MeoW333]

Excuse me but some of the most dysfunctional families go to church and appear like the perfect family to outsiders. BTW, my parents fought like they hated each other and sometimes told each other that, but they stayed married and appeared happy to everyone (but the kids) for almost fifty years.

I do take what the bio-mom says with a grain of salt but so far that's all the information we have. The step-mom isn't talking, why?

Maybe the kid is an evil little b*s****. I don't know. Obviously what he did was evil. I'm just giving my opinion from what I've read.

Amen to that LizzieBeth!!
That is the truth. Most families will go to extremes to hide the turmoil that goes on inside their houses. They have to appear "normal" to the rest of the world.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Amen to that LizzieBeth!!
That is the truth. Most families will go to extremes to hide the turmoil that goes on inside their houses. They have to appear "normal" to the rest of the world.

The only problem that I have with that though, MeoW, it puts a connotation that they must have been hiding something. How easy it is to say "oh we don't know what goes on behind closed doors" and it implies that there was things going on that shouldn't have been when the factual truth may very well be there was nothing untoward going on in the family behind closed doors at all.

Now I do know it is a favorite defense attorney's tactic because it is impossible to disprove a negative.

I have seen nothing that shows me that there was anything wrong or abusive going on in the Romero home. So I can't just assume there was but that is just me.

I guess I have just seen this in the past where some people are jealous of other couples relationships and seems to want to put down those successful happy relationship by implying something nefarious has to be going on in the couple homes when it isn't at all.

imoo

 

[MeoW333]

He does strike me as quite smart. He knew it was best to eliminate any witnesses. He knew what to say to lure the coworker into the home. He knew to make up excuses why gunshot residue would be all over his clothes. He knew to kill his father when no one was in the house. I feel he may have already had the weapon out before the father came home from work and his father never saw it coming.

imo

I'm not sure he was making up excuses for the gunshot residue; it may be more so an 8 year old doesn't know how to lie that well under police pressure. The police described the gunshot residue to him and he elaborated about what he knew and the smoke. Someone else on here mentioned that it is harder for young children to lie.

From the article:

"She said the boy's story changed with every question the officers asked. She said they discussed gun shot residue in words the youngster could understand, and they asked him if he would have any on his clothing - the boy acknowledged that he may have some on his clothing. "He said when he entered the house there was a lot of smoke in the house. He also told us that he did pick up the gun, and that the smoke would have caused (residue) to be on his clothing. We asked if he would have a little or a lot, he said a lot." She said he then admitted that he may have fired the gun."

also in article:

"Did you ask him if he might have been mad at his dad," asked Carlyon. Neckel said the boy admitted he was mad at his dad. "He said that the evening before, he didn't bring some papers home from school and his dad was very angry and had (the boy's) stepmother spank him five swats."
http://www.wmicentral.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=20190155&BRD=2264&PAG=461&dept_id=505965&rfi=6
(you have to scroll down to second article on topic in a row: Boy, 8, accused of killing two

The boy admits his own guilt, at the age of 8, it is just harder for young children to lie; especially being that he was under tremendous pressure (LE questioning him & he had just killed his father and their roomer). He wasn't making excuses; his young mind just wasn't grown enough to think of the lies to cover what he had done.
All of his "excuses" were admissions of the truth of what he had done. His story kept changing; an 8 year old is not going to be able to stick to one certain specific story of what happened. As police throw suggestions out, the story may change as well.

Obviously, he's guilty; however he led himself to his guilt. In more ways than one. Someone who is much older is craftier with lies and can evade more questioning as their brains have developed farther.

The police also asked if he was mad at his dad and he answered about getting the 5 swats by the stepmother for not bringing home papers.
I wonder if police asked him "why did you shoot your dad?" and what he would have answered. Sometimes when questioning children; you have to be very direct to get the answer you're looking for. I'm sure he's been asked this; and with the gag order in place, we'll have to wait.

 

[MeoW333]

".....As he approached the home, he told the officers he saw a body on the front porch and then went inside and called for his dad before seeing his dad's body lying on the stairs. "He said he stayed there for 30 minutes and then he left the residence and went to a neighbor's house where there is another young man. He spoke to him and told him his father was dead and his father's friend was dead," said Neckel."

http://www.wmicentral.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=20190155&BRD=2264&PAG=461&dept_id=505965&rfi=6

The boy had to have been following his dad down the stairs with the gun. Unless he shot the dad elsewhere (who then staggered to the stairs where the boy shot him more times until he killed them).

"In talking to the boy's grandmother, he said he learned she had originally purchased the gun for her son, and he in turn gave it to his son. "She said (her grandson) knew how to use it." Rodriquez said he learned the Romero family members were hunters and had many guns in the home, mostly stored in the master bedroom."

The gun was a hand me down from father to son (at age 8) which would explain the father's wanting to pass down the tradition to his son. Also consulting the priest about should he give his son the gun or not. Obviously the stepmom wasn't too keen on the idea and suggested a BB gun. Not all children are ready for a .22 at age 8.
Keeping the family tradition alive is what killed him. (With the help of his son of course).

 

[Trino]

Just making a parallel to a child's capabilities re: the Wineville Chicken Coop Murders. For several weeks Arthur Hutchens pretended to be Walter Collins to both the police and Walter's mother. When he finally confessed he wasn't Walter, he then pretended to be Billy Fields. He had no feelings for the mother whose child was missing.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

".....As he approached the home, he told the officers he saw a body on the front porch and then went inside and called for his dad before seeing his dad's body lying on the stairs. "He said he stayed there for 30 minutes and then he left the residence and went to a neighbor's house where there is another young man. He spoke to him and told him his father was dead and his father's friend was dead," said Neckel."

http://www.wmicentral.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=20190155&BRD=2264&PAG=461&dept_id=505965&rfi=6

The boy had to have been following his dad down the stairs with the gun. Unless he shot the dad elsewhere (who then staggered to the stairs where the boy shot him more times until he killed them).

"In talking to the boy's grandmother, he said he learned she had originally purchased the gun for her son, and he in turn gave it to his son. "She said (her grandson) knew how to use it." Rodriquez said he learned the Romero family members were hunters and had many guns in the home, mostly stored in the master bedroom."

The gun was a hand me down from father to son (at age 8) which would explain the father's wanting to pass down the tradition to his son. Also consulting the priest about should he give his son the gun or not. Obviously the stepmom wasn't too keen on the idea and suggested a BB gun. Not all children are ready for a .22 at age 8.
Keeping the family tradition alive is what killed him. (With the help of his son of course).

Thank goodness Mr. Romans was on the phone with his wife when the boy called him to come into the home saying something was wrong with his dad. He couldn't have seen Mr. Romans lying there already dead first.

No wonder his story fell apart quickly.

imoo

 

[Fermi]

I believe she moved away to MS at least 3 and a half years ago. The boy would have been about 4 years old. The custody papers were filed two years ago and in it the father states then that in one and a half years she did not see the child but 2 weeks when she moved to MS. So it seems she left at least 3years or more ago for him to notate that in custody papers.

It would be interesting to know if she too had family in the same town left there. I got the impression she was from the same town as he lived in. At first it seems she left and went to another AZ town where she lived with her boyfriend. I have forgotten the name of the town though, something like Summerville? but that may not be the name. Maybe her boyfriend lives in MS now. Maybe he is in construction and they moved to MS to gain work due to the hurricane that happened in that area. If she is with the same guy that lived in a travel trailer then most likely he moves onto where other work is needed and more plentiful.

Since the father was laying face down on the stairs I would gather that he was shot from the back and the first shot was to a vital area that brought him down and the boy shot 3 additional times to make sure he was dead. Rifles are for long range distances. They become much more lethal when fired from a short range very close up.

They said the shooting of the father happened in the upper floor and the door was shut. Since Mr. Romans was outside the home talking on the phone with his wife, he did not hear any shots or imo he would have told his wife. His wife said she could hear the boy calling him to come inside the home. The boy had to already be positioned, watching Mr. Romans approaching the home and had to have the weapon loaded and ready. Imo he was killed before entering so that Mr. Romans wouldn't be able to see the body of the father laying there, alerting him that something was very wrong and that he needed to get the h*ll out of there to save his own life.

I don't think either men saw this coming.

imoo

Hi Ocean!

Thank you so much for shedding more light on this for me. I had not read that the bio-mom had moved sooner; puts a little different perspective on things. Since they now have a gag order on this case, I do not imagine we will be hearing much. I respect that due to the age of this young boy, yet I do wish we were privy to more background information.

I just cannot fathom an 8 year old lying in wait to kill his father and then coldly calling the other man to his death. We hear in the news frequently about teen-agers killing their parent/s but, this age? Frightening!

Fermi

 

[MeoW333]

Thank goodness Mr. Romans was on the phone with his wife when the boy called him to come into the home saying something was wrong with his dad. He couldn't have seen Mr. Romans lying there already dead first.

No wonder his story fell apart quickly.

imoo

He sure could hunt well; i see it worked on those that cared about him as well..

 

[Trino]

I just cannot fathom an 8 year old lying in wait to kill his father and then coldly calling the other man to his death. We hear in the news frequently about teen-agers killing their parent/s but, this age? Frightening! Fermi

Cold, calculating, very frightening indeed. I have heard no statement of remorse, which is equally frightening. Definitely, this boy needs evaluation. The question is will 10 years in a juvenile facility be enough?

IMO because of public outcry and possible court action (cruel and unusual punishment), he'll be placed in a juvenile facility, then released in 10 years. JD, with around a 50% recidivism, is not a cure-all. A big quesion is what will happen then?

To compare (2005 statistics):

http://www.courttv.com/people/bloom_blog/102505_juveniles_ctv.html?link=eaf

Number of prisoners currently serving life without parole for juvenile crimes in the United States: 2,225

Number of prisoners currently serving life without parole for juvenile crimes in the entire rest of the world: 12

 

[twinkiesmom]

Hi Ocean!

Thank you so much for shedding more light on this for me. I had not read that the bio-mom had moved sooner; puts a little different perspective on things.

Fermi

The custody battle was only two years ago:
http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/...11108-divorce-details-2x-murde.1a37a0964.html

 

[oceanblueeyes]

He sure could hunt well; i see it worked on those that cared about him as well..

I have no doubt his father did teach him to be very safe when using the hunting rifle. Many kids his age are taught to game hunt and are also taught those same safety lessons that they carry with them into their adult game hunting experiences.

He was never taught to hunt human beings though. Kids are taught what legal game to hunt and how to be careful and safe with their weapons at all times.

It is always the mindset of the killer imo that uses something that wasn't intended for that purpose, to be a weapon against humans and makes it into one. It is their intent...not the intent of the weapon they used.

imo

 

[Shelby77]

I've been following this story since it broke and it's been in my mind ever since, I can't get it out of my head...HOW does something like this happen? WHY? We may never know those answers, but I can certainly understand why it's sooo much easier to believe abuse of some sort was involved. I'm NOT saying it was, I'm not sure yet what happened in that house to make that young boy commit such a horrid crime. But, what is more reasonable to have happened?
1. That a man abused his 8 yo boy causing enough damage to the boy to make it possible for his son to pick up a gun and shoot him, or
2. that an 8 yo boy is sociopathic enough to do just to do it, whether it be over a spanking, unhappy w/ new stepmom or whatever
I think any reasonable person will pick option 1, that abuse in the home caused the 8 yo to act out, statistics show us this. How often has a child under the age of 10 commited such a murder? Of his parents, with NO abuse involved whatsoever.
It certainly possible he is sociopathic, but we the facts we have here we can not determine one way or another.
I can say had he not had access to a gun this would NOT have happened but that's neither here nor there. A lesson for all parents, whether you're children show sociopathic tendencies or not, LOCK UP YOUR GUNS.
It's also way too generalized way of thinking to assume, just because I'm in a rural area with the same hunting lifestyle and I also attend church weekly and I'm a good parent, so this Vince must be too. HUH? WE can not judge a book by its cover and looks can be extremely deceiving. Just because a parent gets custody, it's not always the one who should. Some parents have more $$, so can just manipulate the system better than others. Also, this is a very small town, of which he was a local, and to the best of my knoweledge, she was an "outsider". I know how the thinking goes in those kind of towns, courts... Again, I'm not saying that is the case here, but it happens. JUST because somebody made an allegation in a custody dispute does not make it true, how preposterous to think that. I'm sure Eryn made plenty of allegations also, which could be true, or un-true. I'm not going to write anybody off here with the handful of facts we have. I did spend most of yesterday researching this very case, so people can stop assuming things, the mother of the boy more than likely lives in Mississippi because that is where she is from and where her family is. Also, I came across many personal references, (even people in small towns enjoy the internet lol)but not once did I see a Vinnie, it was always Vince to those that loved him.
My heart goes out to all involved in this, no matter what the reasons were behind the crime a family and community has been torn apart. I can only imagine the pain the families of the 2 men are going thru, and the pain that little boy will now have to live with. May god be with them all.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
I think this is sad.Also her name is Erin Bloomfield.

Quote
They’re saying all kinds of things about my son. They have smashed him down to nothing.”

Quote

The sight of her young son being led into court in shackles on Monday was especially upsetting, Ms. Bloomfield said. His hands were bound to a security belt that had to be looped around his waist three times because of his small frame. The judge ordered the restraints removed.



I feel this is so sad and wrong.Is this Judge going to try this little boys case?He sounds fair.I had alot of respect for this judge he had the restraints removed.

Quote

The next hearing, set for next Wednesday, is to focus on requests by defense lawyers for DNA, blood samples, ballistics and other forensics evidence from the crime scene.


I hope they keep us informed of these findings.I would like to know what they found.I still want to know what this little boy has to say.


suzanne