AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #1

[oceanblueeyes]

Hi
If this little boy was abused.He couldn't leave.In some cases of abuse there is a breaking point where the person starts fighting back.This topic is really bothering me.I won't discuss the abuse aspect of it any more.I just really hope that wasn't the situation for this little boy.I guess we'll just have to find out more as it comes available.

suzanne

I do not think he was abused but it was like the grandmother said .......they were too strict on him. I am sure if he was being abused she would have intervened.

You are right he couldnt leave but he could tell his grandmother and he had plenty of relatives living there.

I couldnt leave my abusive childhood at 5 years old either or even at 15 when it still was happening but I endured and got out the day I turned 18.

imoo

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
It might not just be physical abuse.I know Mental abuse,ignoring,cutting down and belittling someone and not showing love is a whole lot worse than any hitting.I would like to hope there was no abuse of any kind to this little boy.There is a difference between being hard on this little boy and intimidation.

suzanne

 

[mostlylurking]

Hi,

Which ones?

Well, I didn't get through them all. I just found the mood interesting. There seemed to be more folks supporting the boy than thinking he's guilty. Also, one of them posted that the room mate was a drug dealer. Don't know if that was a confirmed statement or speculation.

It was just an interesting read all in all.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Well, I didn't get through them all. I just found the mood interesting. There seemed to be more folks supporting the boy than thinking he's guilty. Also, one of them posted that the room mate was a drug dealer. Don't know if that was a confirmed statement or speculation.

It was just an interesting read all in all.

Thanks.

LOL No, that has not been confirmed or even mentioned by anyone in the media or those that knew him well. They said he was a hard working man that would do anything for his two daughters and was a devoted husband. They also said he was known to befriend young people and became a mentor to them.

But speculation like drugs or whatever are always out out on a website where they sit behind a monitor anonymously.

I will have to go back and read it again. I just scanned it and thought you had seen one particular post or something that peaked your interest. Thats why I asked.

imoo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Hi
It might not just be physical abuse.I know Mental abuse,ignoring,cutting down and belittling someone and not showing love is a whole lot worse than any hitting.I would like to hope there was no abuse of any kind to this little boy.There is a difference between being hard on this little boy and intimidation.

suzanne

True.

But I keep thinking what the mother said. That the boy had a very loving relationship with his father. That they did everything together. She said he was a typical child who played video games and we know he seemed to have everything he wanted from a skateboard,went hunting and fishing with his dad..and played basketball with his dad at their house. Even had an ATV I believe.

I have never heard of very many parents that abused their children really do much with them or buy them much or dote on them. They usually were very neglected children in every facet of their home life.

Something just doesn't add up to me.

I wonder if they will put the documents they released on the official website?

imoo

 

[Reannan]

This case really is one that tugs at my heart, and one that I can't seem to process. I don't know what to think. It certainly isn't normal for a child to kill their parent like that - at 8 years old, especially! Parents that are overly strict is not an excuse for murder to me. Heck, every child with a properly "strict" parent would think the parent was overly strict! Why was he living with the father and not the mother? That is a question that arose early for me, and I have not seen it answered - perhaps I missed it...??? Discipline must always be balanced with love and nourishment. What kind of loving, nourishing environment did this kid have? We just don't know the answers to these questions, and therefore, I can't really make any decision as to the motive for this crime. I just know that it is sad for everyone involved - both the living and the dead.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

This case really is one that tugs at my heart, and one that I can't seem to process. I don't know what to think. It certainly isn't normal for a child to kill their parent like that - at 8 years old, especially! Parents that are overly strict is not an excuse for murder to me. Heck, every child with a properly "strict" parent would think the parent was overly strict! Why was he living with the father and not the mother? That is a question that arose early for me, and I have not seen it answered - perhaps I missed it...??? Discipline must always be balanced with love and nourishment. What kind of loving, nourishing environment did this kid have? We just don't know the answers to these questions, and therefore, I can't really make any decision as to the motive for this crime. I just know that it is sad for everyone involved - both the living and the dead.

Here is some information about the custody issues.
Dad fought for custody of son suspected of murdering him

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/s...1a37a0964.html You may have to copy and paste the link. Sorry.


Now 3TV sheds new light on the love this father had for his little boy. The papers show that the father fought in court to keep custody of his son. He also fought to make sure his son went to church and was not exposed to things like second-hand smoke. He writes that his son was a “preemie” with underdeveloped lungs and every time he visits his mom he comes home hacking.

Romero also writes about how she allowed a total stranger to blow smoke in his ear thinking it would cure an undiagnosed ear ache and he writes that for a year and a half his ex-wife lived in Mississippi and saw her son a total of about two weeks.

Romero complains she lived in a travel trailer without plumbing and she "shacked up" with her boyfriend in Springerville. The papers are dated two years ago but since the deadly shooting six days ago the mother has been at her son's side in St. Johns, a tiny rural eastern Arizona town taken by storm.

One resident says, "My heart breaks for the child because I don't believe that he realized the consequences of his actions and he probably took the life of maybe somebody who loved him most and most dearly."

 

[concernedperson]

This is a most heartbreaking case with no easy answers. I went through this with Cody Posey where I truly thought abuse was a significant factor. I am just not sure with this one.

 

[Gray]

New story - Charged Boy Tallied Spankings

http://www.kpho.com/news/18154062/detail.html#-

An Arizona boy charged in the shooting deaths of his father and another man kept a ledger of his spankings and told a Child Protective Services worker that when he reached 1,000, that would be his limit, according to a newly released police report.

Goodness, he made a ledger to keep track of the amount of spankings. Investigators found it.

This kid does have some emotional issues.

 

[Trino]

This was referenced earlier.

Somehow, I have difficulty believing the father spanked the boy 1,000 times and that the boy tallied the number. This takes a lot of discipline from an 8 yr old. Then, too, there were no physical signs of abuse, which certainly teachers, the grandmother, and others would have noticed. Right now, however, this isn't going to matter because the prosecution has requested charges be dropped without prejudice in the father's killing. There would be no defense in the other case.

 

[SoobsinMI]

Sheesh to even know a child is planning murder because of spanking is eerie within itself. I guess it puts other parents on notice as to what could happen if they spank their child too.
imoo

I'm just responding to this part of your post. I have a combined total of 37 years raising kids (all four of my kids combined.) I can't imagine "spanking" them 1000 times, COMBINED, let alone one of them. I realize that some parents spank - I've probably spanked all my kids a total of 10 times, in their life (again, combined.) Never would I have hit for "homework" issues (to be fair, we don't know WHY he was hit so much) but yes, I do believe that was excessive. Since it's been said that he did a lot of extra curricular activities, are we to assume that the only discipline he received was hitting?

I still have an issue with the stepmother hitting that child - while I have grounded my stepdaughter before, I've never laid a hand on her. And I've been a part of her life a LOT longer than this stepmother was, and she lived with me until she was 18.

Does any of this excuse the child for killing? Absolutely not. But it does make me less comfortable labeling him a psychopath.

 

[Trino]

I can't imagine "spanking" them 1000 times, COMBINED, let alone one of them. Since it's been said that he did a lot of extra curricular activities, are we to assume that the only discipline he received was hitting?

Does any of this excuse the child for killing? Absolutely not. But it does make me less comfortable labeling him a psychopath.

I just don't see an 8 yr old "keeping track." I have doubts that he was spanked 1,000 times. This averages around 3 swats per day, about 20 swats per week for a year. How long has this young boy been keeping track? Can we believe he started keeping track when he was 7? I just don't buy it.

 

[SoobsinMI]

I just don't see an 8 yr old "keeping track." I have doubts that he was spanked 1,000 times. This averages around 3 swats per day, about 20 swats per week for a year. How long has this young boy been keeping track? Can we believe he started keeping track when he was 7? I just don't buy it.

It's possible he wasn't spanked that many times. CPS and the police have the journal he kept. That will show if he actually was keeping a tally. If he was, and he wasn't being honest about what he wrote, then that would mean he planned this killing for at least a year? Does anyone believe he's that sophisticated, to have planned and kept a "fake" record of spankings for a year before he carried out his premeditated plan to murder two people?

 

[twinkiesmom]

From the Fox News article:
In a police interview released last week, the boy said he had been spanked five times the night before the shootings because he did not bring home some papers from school. And according to the latest documents, the boy told a state Child Protective Services worker that his 1,000th spanking would be his last.

In an affidavit for a search warrant, Sgt. Lucas Rodriguez writes that the boy "is believed to have made ledgers and or communicated in the form of writings about his intentions," saying the boy tallied the spankings on a piece of paper.

So was the contact with CPS before the murders or after?

 

[twinkiesmom]

I just cant believe any of this. It just doesn't make sense to me. If he was spanked this much he would be on restriction all the time. He wouldn't be playing video games, skateboarding, soccer, basketball, baseball, hunting, fishing and be able to have friends in the neighborhood that said they played with him all the time. Right, 5 swats to the behind certainly isn't abuse imo.

Comments allegedly from locals indicated he was grounded at the time of the murders. And 5 swats for a missed assignment is indicative of a pattern of discipline that is dramatically out of proportion to the level of the infraction...which could very well be abusive.

You are right, grandmothers especially dont like any disipline much of their grandchild. But WHY did she think THIS child was capable of murder?

This was Romero's own mother quoted as being opposed to the harsh level of discipline in the home and seeing this coming. She knew the boy had homicidal rage, and she knew he had access to the gun.

 

[Trino]

Comments allegedly from locals indicated he was grounded at the time of the murders. And 5 swats for a missed assignment is indicative of a pattern of discipline that is dramatically out of proportion to the level of the infraction...which could very well be abusive.

This was Romero's own mother quoted as being opposed to the harsh level of discipline in the home and seeing this coming. She knew the boy had homicidal rage, and she knew he had access to the gun.

I would ask what the pattern of not bring assignments home is. Maybe it did warrant punishment, and the father chose 5 swats. Still, 5 swats should not make a killer.

Didn't the grandmother use the term too strick rather than harsh? Many parents are overly strick, although not necessarily harsh.

 

[Tricia]

I just don't see an 8 yr old "keeping track." I have doubts that he was spanked 1,000 times. This averages around 3 swats per day, about 20 swats per week for a year. How long has this young boy been keeping track? Can we believe he started keeping track when he was 7? I just don't buy it.

I can buy it.

Ask yourself why would an 8 year old keep track of the spankings? Answer, because the spankings were so harsh, so abusive, that he felt he had to do something. Like keep track.

No excuse for the killing but I will be stunned into next year if it is found out there was not any type of severe abuse in this case.

I'm starting a new thread for this topic since this one is getting soooo long.


Please continue right here...

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2996430#post2996430