AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #4

[Linda7NJ]

Is it logical to believe everything that is said about the two murder victims but disbelieve everything that is said about the boy?

Nope! Not at all!

 

[OrdinaryLife]

It is not logical to be fixed in thought and not look at all possibilities regarding this case. There have been more twists and turns that it would be unreasonable, and unfair to all, not to toss theories around. I know there is not one person here that does not want justice and conviction for the murder of these two men. However, given the total disaster of the investigation of this case, it would be illogical not to consider the strong possibilities of others that may have been involved.

The more we read and learn, the more the questions keep coming. I prefer to look and discuss it all and not settle for a fixed position. There is more to this story and we are learning more about it everyday.

 

[SoobsinMI]

Is it logical to believe everything that is said about the two murder victims but disbelieve everything that is said about the boy?

Only about as logical as to believe everything that is said about the child, and nothing of that said about the victims.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Do you live in a heavily infested drug area? I am asking because AZ is THICK with drug issues, specifically meth. To answer your questions; YES a drug dealer would go after someone in the middle of the day! YES a drug dealer would shoot someone with a rifle! They also may have shot Vince inside the house simply because he walked in first, meth people are not too picky about who they hurt.......

As others said, if they knew there were guns in the house, they may have gone there unarmed, not knowing how they were going to take care of things, then helped themselves to the guns in the house. Not unheard of. Meth users are VERY unpredictable.



Interesting, I asked you for a link to information you were saying as fact yesterday, and not only did you not provide it, and gave me a dressing down, you continue to say it as fact, with no link....why the double standard?

First, I always post every post as an opinion and even notate it at the bottom of my post. What opinion did I say that was stated as a fact?

Since the meth dealers/meth heads are known to break in and murder people in broad daylight, do you know of that happening in St. John? From what I could find there hasnt even been a murder there in over a decade maybe even longer and meth has long been an issue for many cities. So it seems if meth heads were this dangerous, the death rate would climb in that town, since you seem to feel it is filled with meth heads, which it most likely does have its share, like a lot of rural communities across America.

IMO

 

[dgfred]

Is it logical to believe everything that is said about the two murder victims but disbelieve everything that is said about the boy?

Doesn't seem that anyone is really doing that :waitasec: , just theories/ideas/guesses/speculation on everyone by everyone. Nobody doubts that some of what the boy said was true and some was false, after all he was only going on 9 and being led along by what most saw in the video. No matter what is true/false about all that are involved in or around this crime, doesn't hurt to question a parent that leaves guns/ammo available to a boy and his friends for long periods of time. A victim with drugs in his previous background
and a married 'womanizer' and 'bar-fly'- if other reports are true. Nobody is believing all or everything about anybody in this case with the little bit of information we have at the moment... it is still just guesses and speculation at this time. That's the fun of being on the forum with all the smart people doing just that. No intention to slander or belittle the victims, just talk. Only my opinion of course.

 

[fran]

Is it logical to believe everything that is said about the two murder victims but disbelieve everything that is said about the boy?

I know this comment wasn't directed at me, but I feel a need to answer, if that's ok.

Of course it's not logical to believe everything said about the two murder victims but disbelieve everything that is said about the boy. But that works two ways.

When you have a fact, that one of the victims was a 'midlevel drug dealer,' (quote from news report as quoted from LE), then it's illogical to completely disregard the fact that this crime very well could have been drug related. You add in the fact that this same victim told another individual that 'someone wanted to kill them,' this makes the possibility that this is a drug related crime just that much more probable. You add in gun shot holes in one of the victim's vehicle, reportedly by a relative on drugs,............well, this adds to the drug related crime theory. Then you add in a missing automatic gun, the same caliber as the alleged murder weapon, this adds to the possibility it was someone other than the child, and they took the gun with them. LE said one of the victims had recently been arrested for drug dealing. This same victim was known to frequent the local bars nightly and was cheating on his wife with not one but at least two women AND he was allegedly being accused of sexual assault by another.........

Well, seems like the deck is stacking against Tim, IMHO. These weren't made up FACTS, they're in the documents.

There is NOTHING, yet, directly linking the child to the crime. NOTHING. Just the figment of the imagination of the St. John's PD. Oh, and the wishful thinking of one of the victim's wives, because she sees a possible payday for her in the form of a lawsuit of the deep-pockets of game manufacturers.

This child may not have angel wings, but I haven't seen anything that makes him a murderer. All I've seen is wild speculation by a police department that, well, just doesn't know how to investigate a murder, IMHO.

JMHO
fran

 

[MOTHEROF4]

Nope! Not at all!

Because there is not to much being said out of 30 interviews, I believe two negative things were said about the boy... Hmmmm...... Sorry 3 and two were hear say.

 

[MeoW333]

Because there is not to much being said out of 30 interviews, I believe two negative things were said about the boy... Hmmmm...... Sorry 3 and two were hear say.

:Welcome-12-june: Motherof4! a lot of newbies tonight! I'm sure ya'll will love Websleuths!

 

[MeoW333]

Sorry, but no. This home was a crime scene that LE had responsibility to take everything in their seach for evidence. It did not, nor should have it mattered, if the child was a suspect or not. They screwed up evidence research/recovering from the crime scene. No excuses.

Not to mention they released the crime scene 24 hours later so even the defense couldn't get a look at it. That doesn't seem to be fair to the defense.
Does anyone one know if it is normal to release a crime scene so quick after a double homicide?

 

[MOTHEROF4]

:Welcome-12-june: Motherof4! a lot of newbies tonight! I'm sure ya'll will love Websleuths!

Thank you Topix made my blood pressure go threw the roof. So I have been on InSession, and have seen people talk about Websleuth so decided to come check it out:dance:

 

[wanttohelp]

i havent read through the whole thread but when this story first came out, i wondered if it was possible the boy hadnt done it and his first story was true. im sure this has been discussed but did they find gun powder on the boy? blood on the boy? i bet they could have come in and done blood splatter pattern analysis comparing it to what the boy says happened

 

[OrdinaryLife]

Not to mention they released the crime scene 24 hours later so even the defense couldn't get a look at it. That doesn't seem to be fair to the defense.
Does anyone one know if it is normal to release a crime scene so quick after a double homicide?

Honestly, everything I have ever read has never showed a crime being released to family within such a short period of time when involving a murder(s). For the reason of making sure all is gathered as evidence, pictures that may be needed even after the orignal scene, and possible questions that may come up during the investigation after the fact. It may not be months (though, I know that happens), but most definitely not hours.

I still do not understand how LE missed bloodied clothing and others had no problem. It also begs to question what else did the "friends" find during their cleaning of the home that may have had something to do with this case that could have been thrown out. Such a major botch job done in this case. *Major*!

 

[oceanblueeyes]

i haven't read through the whole thread but when this story first came out, i wondered if it was possible the boy hadn't done it and his first story was true. im sure this has been discussed but did they find gun powder on the boy? blood on the boy? i bet they could have come in and done blood splatter pattern analysis comparing it to what the boy says happened

They didn't do GSR testing that night. The took his clothing the next day and around 3 dozens GSR particles were found on his clothing. We do not know where they were all found or if it was all on the front of his clothing, the back or both.

They did see blood on his jeans when they put it into the evidence bag.

We do not know if it was blood spatter or blood transfer but that is a very good point to consider. Personally I feel the forensic lab may have found even more blood on his jeans, that was hard to see with the naked eye but can be easily seen when put under a forensic light and magnification.

imoo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Not to mention they released the crime scene 24 hours later so even the defense couldn't get a look at it. That doesn't seem to be fair to the defense.
Does anyone one know if it is normal to release a crime scene so quick after a double homicide?

I don't know about the quickness but no defense team is ever allowed in while the LE investigating agencies are there. Only when the crime scene has been released and the defense goes to the court asking for permission to enter the crime scene, does that happen.

imo

 

[MeoW333]

Honestly, everything I have ever read has never showed a crime being released to family within such a short period of time when involving a murder(s). For the reason of making sure all is gathered as evidence, pictures that may be needed even after the orignal scene, and possible questions that may come up during the investigation after the fact. It may not be months (though, I know that happens), but most definitely not hours.

I still do not understand how LE missed bloodied clothing and others had no problem. It also begs to question what else did the "friends" find during their cleaning of the home that may have had something to do with this case that could have been thrown out. Such a major botch job done in this case. *Major*!

The incompetence of LE during this whole case almost borders on them being criminal

 

[MeoW333]

I don't know about the quickness but no defense team is ever allowed in while the LE investigating agencies are there. Only when the crime scene has been released and the defense goes to the court asking for permission to enter the crime scene, does that happen.

imo

Sorry, OBE i should have worded it differently.
What i meant was that LE released the crime scene within 24 hours. Why release it so early? There's no reason for that, it's sloppy; if they needed to go back they wouldn't be able to. So when the defense asked to see it, they couldn't due to the hasty release of the crime scene.
I know the defense team wouldn't be allowed in during the crime scene investigation, that's obvious; it wouldn't make any sense. I'm not a dummy lol :slap: :blowkiss:

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Sorry, OBE i should have worded it differently.
What i meant was that LE released the crime scene within 24 hours. Why release it so early? There's no reason for that, it's sloppy; if they needed to go back they wouldn't be able to. So when the defense asked to see it, they couldn't due to the hasty release of the crime scene.
I know the defense team wouldn't be allowed in during the crime scene investigation, that's obvious; it wouldn't make any sense. I'm not a dummy lol :slap: :blowkiss:

I know you aren't. You are actually very intelligent.:blowkiss::clap:

I think that the defense asked Judge Roca to be able to go into the crime scene but it was a couple of days or three after the crimes. I believe Brewer said that the DPS and SJPD had already been there several times.

I really don't know why it was released in less than 24 hours, maybe because the actual crime scene was right around Vinnie's body and right around Tim's body outside. I do believe they did take extensive photos and maybe even a video of the scene both when they found it and probably after the bodies were removed.

Some scenes are more complex than others. Really these men didn't get very far. All of it seemed to happen right on the stairwell with Vinnie and within 24 feet of the home and closer with Tim.

imoo

 

[azmama]

First, I always post every post as an opinion and even notate it at the bottom of my post. What opinion did I say that was stated as a fact?

Since the meth dealers/meth heads are known to break in and murder people in broad daylight, do you know of that happening in St. John? From what I could find there hasnt even been a murder there in over a decade maybe even longer and meth has long been an issue for many cities. So it seems if meth heads were this dangerous, the death rate would climb in that town, since you seem to feel it is filled with meth heads, which it most likely does have its share, like a lot of rural communities across America.
IMO

I didn't say that St. John is teeming with "meth heads", but Arizona is flush with them! I didn't say anything you are going on about here. It is ignorant to say that "meth heads" are not dangerous....I am of the mind that you are not exposed to those types of things and the crime that surrounds them. ALL DRUGS bring violence. I am no authority on it, but know the drill about those matters....Arizona is a hotbed of these activities, unfortunately.

 

[STEADFAST]

Since the meth dealers/meth heads are known to break in and murder people in broad daylight, do you know of that happening in St. John? From what I could find there hasnt even been a murder there in over a decade maybe even longer and meth has long been an issue for many cities. So it seems if meth heads were this dangerous, the death rate would climb in that town, since you seem to feel it is filled with meth heads, which it most likely does have its share, like a lot of rural communities across America.

IMO

By that logic, if 8-year-olds were so all-fired dangerous, the death rate would skyrocket in St. John, too, since there are probably even more 8-year-olds than there are meth heads.

 

[Fairy1]

I didn't say that St. John is teeming with "meth heads", but Arizona is flush with them! I didn't say anything you are going on about here. It is ignorant to say that "meth heads" are not dangerous....I am of the mind that you are not exposed to those types of things and the crime that surrounds them. ALL DRUGS bring violence. I am no authority on it, but know the drill about those matters....Arizona is a hotbed of these activities, unfortunately.

Sadly, nearly every place is a hotbed of meth activity these days; cities, small towns, suburbs, rural areas....no place is immune. Murders like this happen every day and we never do and never will hear about most of them. Based on the cases we do hear about, why is it so difficult to believe it could happen in broad daylight? Why is it so difficult to believe that that the killer(s) could have purposely framed this little boy? Framed him and frightened him enough to say that he did it?

I don't disbelieve anything negative that is said about the boy. However, there definitely were extenuating circumstances involving the victims here and every single aspect should be examined. Sweeping generalizations should not be applied - for the boy or Vincent or Tim.

And BTW - we HAVE NO IDEA about the forensic evidence yet. Please let's not assume anything with regard to GSR or blood splatter. Jumping to conclusions is exactly what has this case in a compromising situation.