Babcock Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #1

[SnooperDuper]

So at the time when CN was rubbing it in to LB that she'd slept with DM, LB was SL's girlfriend.. so now I'm thinking, 'so what, then??'.LB can't expect ex bfs to remain faithful to her, she herself had moved on to SL... etc.. seems weird now that they're even making an issue of it.

KS said that LB and DM had been involved since 2010, and SL said that he had been involved with LB for 18 months ending around Christmas 2011.

"Noudga says she was Dellen Millard's girlfriend in 2013. "We had been together since 2010," Noudga says. #TimBosma #Bosma Apr 27, 2016"

Oh boy. So since 2010 DM was involved with both CN and LB. 2/2011 is the date CN later claimed as the beginning of that relationship. By 12/2011, LB had also decided to concentrate on DM?

2012 DM is still involved with both.

 

[canadiangirl]

Someone mentioned about key players posting on here. It's this for real?

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[Jealoushe]

A question I've been puzzled by regarding both TB and LB cases, and the official LE charges against DM/MS.....why has there not been a charge of causing an indignity to a body? It seems with other sketchy murder cases, where the body has been tampered with, this charge accompanies the murder charge.....IMO burning a body(s) in an incinerator warrants this charge.

With no body it would be hard to prove.

I'm going to assume they have a lotttttt of evidence to present against DM and MS, with the time line given and also how little they seemed to care about the way LB was being portrayed. They most likely have DNA, texts, photos and more.

 

[deugirtni]

KS said that LB and DM had been involved since 2010, and SL said that he had been involved with LB for 18 months ending around Christmas 2011.

Originally Posted by deugirtni
"Noudga says she was Dellen Millard's girlfriend in 2013. "We had been together since 2010," Noudga says. #TimBosma #Bosma Apr 27, 2016"


Oh boy. So since 2010 DM was involved with both CN and LB. 2/2011 is the date CN later claimed as the beginning of that relationship. By 12/2011, LB had also decided to concentrate on DM?

2012 DM is still involved with both.

Let's not forget to add 'the fiance', JS, to the mix, for seemingly the exact same time period. One would have to assume that engagement photos taken in spring 2011 would mean the engagement actually occurred prior to the photos, and that some kind of meaningful relationship of some length would have occurred for some time before that:

In the spring of 2011, Dellen Millard arranged for engagement photos to be taken of himself and his fiancee at the Millardair hangar at Pearson airport. The concept for the shoot, the props and the location were all Millard’s choosing. He even used a giant carving knife to hack up his jeans and get the “ripped look” just right. But by the time, Millard — now accused of the murder of Tim Bosma — went to pick up the photos a few weeks later, the wedding had been called off.

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/2013/12/dellen-millards-engagement-photos.html

 

[deugirtni]

I am surprised by how quickly both crown and defense are going through the witnesses. Surprised by no cross if the Dr. .... you would think DM or Dungey would try to discredit him..make him admit he was calling her or Julie as an escort... If only to highlight the lifestyle of escorting Laura had fallen into and the "possibility some client put her up somewhere and thats why shes disappeared "

I wonder if 'Julie' is scheduled for the witness stand? Interesting that the doctor's wife accompanied him to hear his courtroom testimony.

 

[Inspector_North]

We have all seen the stained board removed from the barn, and some have made the connection to this case. News also showed several LE moving a large amount of hay. Does anyone know if it was from the barn?

 

[Tealgrove]

What a tangled web DM wove.

Different women on all fronts, who all knew each other no less, which is a recipe for disaster no matter who you are. A cast of characters (who also knew the women and sometimes cross dated them), some of who were willing to assist on his "missions", and for the record a buddy who had no problem assisting him to kill two people (or maybe even the trigger man). Lies, cheating, womanizing, drugs, sex and rock and roll.

Quite the life DM was living.

Eventually, it all catches up with you and unfortunately, it didn't catch up soon enough to save Tim.

 

[Tealgrove]

I'm wondering if they have DNA evidence for Laura.

The only DNA evidence they had for Tim was blood on the outside of the Eliminator and I think they got DNA from blood in the truck (?). Not sure about the truck. DNA evidence was not garnered from the ashes and bone left in the Eliminator. It was destroyed by the cremation.

So for Laura, maybe her blood on the Eliminator?, After all that time, I'm not sure if DNA would still be present. DNA in the barn, the "board"?

I really want to hear the physical evidence presented.

 

[Obes99]

Self harm isn't unique to BPD, emotional lability isn't unique to BPD, those medications aren't unique to BPD (and in fact are not indicated in favour of DBT), and all of those symptoms could be explained by her drug use, is what I'm saying.

It's going to be important to DM to prove to the jury that she had bad character though. That's why DM is hammering on this point.

You're correct, deferential dxs are always important to consider. There is no compelling evidence of BAD was the point I was trying to express. Rapid cycling BAD has been the soup de jour of psychiatry over recent years that typically turns out to be BPD. In the bigger picture, it should have no impact on her right to live. I was simply trying to offer clarity on possible dxs.

 

[Obes99]

Self harm isn't unique to BPD, emotional lability isn't unique to BPD, those medications aren't unique to BPD (and in fact are not indicated in favour of DBT), and all of those symptoms could be explained by her drug use, is what I'm saying.

It's going to be important to DM to prove to the jury that she had bad character though. That's why DM is hammering on this point.

You are correct that self-harm is not exclusive to BPD however working in acute psychiatry for 20+ years I can count only a handful of times that it was indicative of an axis II disorder. You are also spot on about DBT. I read that the long wait list for treatment at CAMH was likely their DBT program. It's 8 months where I'm from.

 

[musicaljoke]

A question I've been puzzled by regarding both TB and LB cases, and the official LE charges against DM/MS.....why has there not been a charge of causing an indignity to a body? It seems with other sketchy murder cases, where the body has been tampered with, this charge accompanies the murder charge.....IMO burning a body(s) in an incinerator warrants this charge.

It's a lesser charge, and is sometimes used to detain a person when the charge of murder has not yet been established. There is an endless list of potential charges against these two criminals, but there isn't a need to spend time on them all when the murder charge and conviction will put them away.

 

[jash]

I agree with everything you said Winter, but I would also like to add that it is possible a desperate Laura who was not thinking clearly became pregnant by DM. If he or CN knew that, they might have feared that she would approach DM's parents for financial and emotional support. They had no grandchildren, and I think it is possible that MB especially might have liked the idea of a cute little grandchild, even if it were not planned. This would cause all kinds of problems for DM and CN, including child support, and the possibility of another heir to the Millard fortune. I don't think either would want a child that was not CN's in their lives, and it would not surprise me that DM never planned to have children, no matter what he said to CN, in order to manipulate her, so she would not testify against him. Poor Laura got caught in a cesspool of evil, and was too young to realize how very dangerous DM and all his so called friends were. Rest in Peace, Laura, you, and possibly your child, are in a much better place now. IMO

That is an interesting theory. However, LB didn't seem shy about sharing personal things with both strangers (guy from the bar) and friends she hadn't spoken to in years. I think if she were pregnant, she would have shared the news.

 

[musicaljoke]

We have all seen the stained board removed from the barn, and some have made the connection to this case. News also showed several LE moving a large amount of hay. Does anyone know if it was from the barn?

Those poor men. What an awful job. I hope they know how thankful we are for their work as they investigated this case. The police have and will face a lot of criticism, but they also deserve our thanks and support.

 

[jash]

I'm surprised DM wasn't trolling the neighbourhood high schools directly for fresh meat to exploit (male and female).

Ya really! But lucky DM didn't even need to leave the comfort of his basement party pad as he had Matt Hagerman literally delivering these young, impressionable people into DM's twisted world.

I don't mean to imply MH was deliberately doing this for DM and knew what the outcome would be but it seems most of the people in this sordid circle trace back to MH somehow.

 

[AllySleuth]

That is an interesting theory. However, LB didn't seem shy about sharing personal things with both strangers (guy from the bar) and friends she hadn't spoken to in years. I think if she were pregnant, she would have shared the news.

Could that be why DM is trying to drill home LB made up stories, embellished a lot with some witnesses?

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[Tilly23]

Earlier when I sarcastically said what a great friend K was to LB for participating along with CN in her birthday text to LB regarding the first time she 'slept with' the prize, DM... I hadn't realized that the date was the same as the party SL organized for his then-girlfriend. So at the time when CN was rubbing it in to LB that she'd slept with DM, LB was SL's girlfriend.. so now I'm thinking, 'so what, then??'.LB can't expect ex bfs to remain faithful to her, she herself had moved on to SL... etc.. seems weird now that they're even making an issue of it.
Also, I recall that CN had reportedly known DM for years.. so the girl finally 'got lucky' on the night of 'Medieval Night'. Here is one of Adam Carter's tweets from the TB trial, in which CN says she had 'been together' with DM since 2010, which now seems rather like a lie.:

"Noudga says she was Dellen Millard's girlfriend in 2013. "We had been together since 2010," Noudga says. #TimBosma #Bosma Apr 27, 2016"

Here is a photo with everyone else blacked out of the pic from that evening. Looks like 10 people attended in total.

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/ne...12757899/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&

What an interesting memento of the event that is! I'm curious now about the others in the photo. Did they all go back to DM's condo for the after party?

MOO

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

I'm skeptical too, only because there didn't appear to be any obvious signs or symptoms of mental health issues prior to her going to university, which itself can be very stressful and cause a lot of anxiety, getting more independence from her parents by choosing to run with a rough crowd who had access to all kinds of drugs, sex and parties through their older "mentor" DM, and then leave home with no means of support rather than continue to follow the house rules.

MOO

Pretty common that mental health issues come to the surface during late teens or 20s.

 

[winter2017]

The Hamilton police did an amazing job of collecting the evidence. It was their hard work that helped get these two homicidal maniacs convicted. I criticize the police but they should also get credit for the hard work they did in this case. I was really pissed off at the Toronto police for not investigating Laura s disappearance, but so many of the people surrounding these two homicidal maniacs did not talk to the police about what they knew, except for the young guy went to the school and reported something. If those other morons had said something the police probably would have done an investigation.

 

[winter2017]

I am sure there are many inconsistencies with CN testimony. There are things she knew and could have helped the police open an investigation to Laura s disappearance, but she did not talk , it shows who she is and I am sure she is a pathological liar. That is why I can never see her be able to become a dr. unless it is in another country with slack acceptance criteria to get into medical school. DM told SL that he never had a relationship with Laura, when we know that also a blatant lie.

 

[Errrr]

Earlier when I sarcastically said what a great friend K was to LB for participating along with CN in her birthday text to LB regarding the first time she 'slept with' the prize, DM... I hadn't realized that the date was the same as the party SL organized for his then-girlfriend. So at the time when CN was rubbing it in to LB that she'd slept with DM, LB was SL's girlfriend.. so now I'm thinking, 'so what, then??'.LB can't expect ex bfs to remain faithful to her, she herself had moved on to SL... etc.. seems weird now that they're even making an issue of it.
Also, I recall that CN had reportedly known DM for years.. so the girl finally 'got lucky' on the night of 'Medieval Night'. Here is one of Adam Carter's tweets from the TB trial, in which CN says she had 'been together' with DM since 2010, which now seems rather like a lie.:

"Noudga says she was Dellen Millard's girlfriend in 2013. "We had been together since 2010," Noudga says. #TimBosma #Bosma Apr 27, 2016"

Here is a photo with everyone else blacked out of the pic from that evening. Looks like 10 people attended in total.

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/ne...12757899/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&

These girls are trolling for wallets. DMs wallet is too big for an exclusive but these girls have deluded themselves, thinking they will be the one to land him. These aren't conventional relationships. They exchange body parts the way regular people try on outfits. It's like landing that fat wallet is a business. SL is a contingency plan that got ditched when the chance at landing the prize wallet appeared to be imminent. JMO