Baez - Just Lost The Trial

[repairmom]

I thought he lost when he said George yelled at Casey "Where's Caylee?!" "Where's Caylee?" and then dramatically went on and on about them searching under the beds, in the closets and in the garage...the first thing I thought was, if you have a pool and you can't find a child, that is the first place you look.

I hope this is said to the jury, either through testimony of GA in the form of a hypothetical like JA did before, or through the SA's closing. This is such an obvious blunder in their story.

:great:

 

[CourtsInSession]

As a former prosecutor who has tried many death penalty cases, you absolutely never know how a juror or jurors will look at the evidence based on their own life experiences. This is a very interesting case for seeking the death penalty. Normally, most domestic homicides are not prosecuted as death penalty cases. In most cases jurors do come to the truth. A guilty verdict does appear a likely outcome, however, I would be very surprised if the jury recommends death.

I personally would be satisfied with a guilty verdict, as long as there is no chance of her being parolled. Face it, being put to death is over and done with in a matter of minutes. Imagine being in your 20's and knowing you have to spend the rest of your life (maybe 60 years), never eating your favorite chili again?

 

[Soulmagent]

BBM

Could be one reason the defense theory has GA finding Caylee's body in the pool.......although I believe it's mainly to remove Casey from any involvement.

MOO

I dont think so because in the OP he said Casey begged her dad to help her.


If he was trying to remove Casey from everythng that statement would not have been made. Or rather shouldnt have been.

 

[crazyclan99]

I haven't read this thread but it seemed a reasonably decent place for me to express the following thought.

Baez claims that KC didn't call 911 because she was "hiding her pain like always."

Baez has also made a huge deal out of eliciting testimony from her friends concerning what a loving and affectionate relationship they had. This is a mistake because if KC was so loving and affectionate over Caylee, then surely she would have had some moments of being/demonstrating that she was upset, or that something was terribly wrong. Additionally, it seems like all that shared love would lead KC to IMMEDIATELY call 911 that her baby had died in an accident!!!

Just spinning off what you have said above....I was thinking along the same lines. If KC had found it so easy to find her "happy" place after Caylee died, why is it now, while she sits in court, she can't seem to find that happy place, while things are at there absolute worst for "free spirit" KC facing the death penalty? Why is it that we see her cry out of anger rather than sadness or remorse?

IMO, the times I have seen her show emotion other than anger because testimony is not in her favor, is when she did that half smile like when Caylee's picture was shown. On one hand, I suppose it could be interpreted as some sort of sadness, but what I see is a sarcastic, half a## smile....The kind I would use when thinking "WHAT-EVER" or maybe "HUGE WASTE" in KC speak.

 

[Itsy]

RE: the smell of decomp in the backyard. I still think that it possibly came from either the bottom of the gas can after George got them back from Casey (sitting on the stain?) OR, that's where George/Cindy dumped the water from the wet vac after cleaning the trunk. (I'll try tomorrow to find where I read about them cleaning the trunk.) JMO

And TY, darnudes, for correcting me on the way Casey & George went out of the house. I had assumed (and guess what happened to me, lol) that the diagram JB referred to was showing the house the same way the SA showed it in theirs. I went back & listened after you pointed that out and you were right about him not saying they went out the front. It still doesn't make sense to me that George had enough time to look for & get Caylee out of the pool before Casey had time to do her own search as others have pointed out. Their backyard is not that big.

And ITA with others that have said who on earth would NOT look outside first for a missing child when there's a pool in the backyard! Or call 911 when they did find her...Yep, JB should have quit when he was ahead - just said she drowned & Casey panicked. Everything after that was TOO MUCH & came across as pure fiction.

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

Week 1 of the Casey Anthony trial has ended. It has been interesting.

The state made a methodical opening statement laying out the 31 days. They have brought in witness after witness that stated KC seemed the same before and after June 16th. One even stated KC said she was such a good liar. The state also had a very credible witness in SB. They also brought GA and CA to the stand. They brought in photos and video showing KC was acting as if nothing had happened.

The opening statement of the defense was interesting as well. We do have to keep in mind that opening statements aren't facts.

Has JB already lost the trial? IMO absolutely not. The job of the defense team is to raise reasonable doubt. The alleged sexually abuse from GA and LA is a bombshell to the jury. The alleged drowning in the pool, and GA yelling at KC blaming her is another bombshell.

Many of the states witnesses have testified that KC acted like nothing had happened during the 31 days after June 16th. However, each and every one of them also stated that KC was a good mother, and that Caylee obviously loved KC very much. This relationship between KC and Caylee as stated by these witnesses may lean in the defenses favor, and bring reasonable doubt that a mother who so obviously loved her child could commit the premeditated murder of that child just so she could live the good life. Also, if the jury thinks GA did sexually abuse KC, then her behavior is understandable, and these witnesses claiming she was acting the same before and after the 16th only reinforces that KC was displaying the behavior of a victim of sexual abuse. This also may work in the defenses favor.

SB and GA both testified they thought they smelled human decomp. However, the jury must be wondering why, if GA and SB were so certain this was human decomp, did SB allow GA to drive the car home instead of immediately calling the police department? Unless the jury thinks that when they found the white garbage bag, they both thought that this was the cause of the terrible odor and it was not human decomp but trash that had sat in a trunk in the hot Florida sun for weeks that caused the odor. This again may also work in the favor of the defense.

At times, during the testimony of GA, he seems to be combative and evasive, and sometimes it looks as though he is not being truthful. This of course is in my opinion, but if any member of the jury feels the same way, this could definately favor the defense.

The jury has not researched this case the way many of us on this site have done. They do not have near the knowledge about this case that many of us have. We must disregard much of what we know, because it will not be considered in this case. We must put ourselves in the jury box, and try to see it the way the jury may see it.

I believe, in the minds of the jury, based on what has been stated in trial thus far, that the defense has an edge at the end of the first week. They are considering that GA may have sexually abused KC. They are wondering why SB did not call the police department if he thought that the smell was human decompostion. They are wondering if Caylee did indeed drown. They are wondering how could KC have murdered a child she had an amazing relationship with. The defense needs only to raise reasonable doubt, and during the first week of trial, I think they were successful.

As always my entire post is my opinion only.

In addition to my thoughts in post #256, in regard to RK, there were many inconsistancies in RK's statements. The whole RK affair was a hinky mess. From the time he was there with the guys from work, when he first spotted the skull, but they were sidetracked by the 15,000$ snake, to the officer who finally showed up and was released by the police department for dereliction of duty, that also was the officer who responded to GA's call of his gas cans being stolen IIRC. The alleged phone call to his son in November. The fact that absolutely no one saw what RK saw on August 11th through December 11th until RK finally got the police to actually see what he saw.

We all know where Caylee's remains were found, and it is mindboggling that a multitude of people searched that area, some with cadaver dogs, and yet no one found anything except for RK. The police department must have searched that area as well, because if they did not, what does that tell you about the police investigation, if they would not search the most logical place to start a search.

After the remains were found the judge at the time JS would not allow the defense to observe the evidence retrieval. JB can raise some reasonable doubts as to why no one discovered the remains after all that searching when the spot they were ultimately recovered on was less than 20 feet from the road. Yes, I know it is possible that everyone who searched there just didn't see it, but there was enough controversy around the whole RK situation that reasonable doubt about the situation is not out of the question. Yes, I know there is alleged plant growth on the bones and skull, but the SA doesn't know the time of death, the place of death, or the cause of death, so JB's scenario of RK removing the body presumably on August 13th or so, and placing the remains where they were ultimately found sometime after his phone call in november to his son aren't any less circumstantial than the states case.

As for the tunnel vision of the police investigation implied in JB's opening statement, that will become evident as the trial moves on. Based on my interpretation of the evidence we have available via the Sunshine Law, I have doubts that a murdered or drowned Caylee was ever in the trunk of the Pontiac. KC may have told JB how her or GA transported Caylee from the house to the wooded area, and it did not involve Caylee being in the Pontiac. This would end up being quite a bombshell to the states case.

The trial has finished its first week, and I do believe the defense had a better week than the prosecution. All the evidence and witnesses are subject to cross examination now, and will not get the media spin in the courtroom, that we have been being fed for the last 3 years. This case is not a slam dunk like many people seem to believe.

As always my entire post is my opinion only.

 

[Bullwinkle]

Can't wait for Jose to claim both cadaver dogs are in this conspiracy and can't be trusted either.

Well, I'm sorry to keep repeating myself, but as I've been saying all along, by the time this trial is finally over you will understand that the only reason those cadaver dogs ever agreed to be led into that back yard was because they wanted to take pictures and sell them to buy treats.

 

[RR0004]

Oh, so it was 4 pm on the 16th! Jose's story isn't going to work then.

I'm not sure how much stock the SA put in this guy's story.

 

[RR0004]

Well, I'm sorry to keep repeating myself, but as I've been saying all along, by the time this trial is finally over you will understand that the only reason those cadaver dogs ever agreed to be led into that back yard was because they wanted to take pictures and sell them to buy treats.

Now, that's funny!

 

[katydid23]

Oh, so it was 4 pm on the 16th! Jose's story isn't going to work then.

I cannot find the thread right now, going to come baqck and post it when I do,
but apparently this sighting has been debunked.
There is a very long and credible blog which shows why this witness was incorrect.

 

[RR0004]

In addition to my thoughts in post #256, in regard to RK, there were many inconsistancies in RK's statements. The whole RK affair was a hinky mess. From the time he was there with the guys from work, when he first spotted the skull, but they were sidetracked by the 15,000$ snake, to the officer who finally showed up and was released by the police department for dereliction of duty, that also was the officer who responded to GA's call of his gas cans being stolen IIRC. The alleged phone call to his son in November. The fact that absolutely no one saw what RK saw on August 11th through December 11th until RK finally got the police to actually see what he saw.

We all know where Caylee's remains were found, and it is mindboggling that a multitude of people searched that area, some with cadaver dogs, and yet no one found anything except for RK. The police department must have searched that area as well, because if they did not, what does that tell you about the police investigation, if they would not search the most logical place to start a search.

After the remains were found the judge at the time JS would not allow the defense to observe the evidence retrieval. JB can raise some reasonable doubts as to why no one discovered the remains after all that searching when the spot they were ultimately recovered on was less than 20 feet from the road. Yes, I know it is possible that everyone who searched there just didn't see it, but there was enough controversy around the whole RK situation that reasonable doubt about the situation is not out of the question. Yes, I know there is alleged plant growth on the bones and skull, but the SA doesn't know the time of death, the place of death, or the cause of death, so JB's scenario of RK removing the body presumably on August 13th or so, and placing the remains where they were ultimately found sometime after his phone call in november to his son aren't any less circumstantial than the states case.

As for the tunnel vision of the police investigation implied in JB's opening statement, that will become evident as the trial moves on. Based on my interpretation of the evidence we have available via the Sunshine Law, I have doubts that a murdered or drowned Caylee was ever in the trunk of the Pontiac. KC may have told JB how her or GA transported Caylee from the house to the wooded area, and it did not involve Caylee being in the Pontiac. This would end up being quite a bombshell to the states case.

The trial has finished its first week, and I do believe the defense had a better week than the prosecution. All the evidence and witnesses are subject to cross examination now, and will not get the media spin in the courtroom, that we have been being fed for the last 3 years. This case is not a slam dunk like many people seem to believe.

As always my entire post is my opinion only.

I'm beginning to wonder if I'm watching the same case. Did you hear what RH said tonight on WS radio? I think he might disagree about the way the case went this week...and he's looking at it from a defense lawyer's point of view.

 

[Trapshooter]

Okay thedeviledadvocate, I'll bite! lol

Your post that you quoted above, you asked why SB didn't call the police when he smelled decomposition? Good question and I don't have the answer. Why didn't GA call the police?
When SB first inspected the car and smelled decomp, why didn't he call the police at that moment? They both stated that the trash bag was not the smell that was emanating from the trunk. So you stumped me on that question!

IMO I don't see GA as being "evasive & combative". I see GA as a man that is worn out...physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually. I do think JB's questioning is trying to goad GA into a confrontation.

This whole Roy Kronk thing is so unbelievable!!! HOW did RK get custody of Caylee's body? Where did RK hide the body? Why would RK place the body in the woods? I can't recall exactly what RK's statement was but I don't recall any inconsistencies? I also believe the "thing" with his son is revenge being best served cold.

IMO, it is NOT mind boggling that so many people were "near" the area where Caylee was found and did not find her. The entire area was underwater for quite a while, thanks to Hurricane Faye (I think it was Faye?). Tim Miller called off the search several times when he saw the wooded area still underwater. I am sure Tim Miller will testify to this at trial. Not so sure what GSJ is going to say? I just don't buy the Kronk story at all. IF someone can explain to me how Kronk GOT the body in the first place, maybe I can wrap my mind around it.

 

[Solomisskitty]

Aaarrghh - I believe he lost the trial with the opening statements!

 

[dkatiemom]

I just spent the last two hours immersed in this thread, and so appreciate all of the discussion from my fellow WS'rs.

Am I correct in believing that the OS from JB stated that they both went out the front door together, ICA going to the left and GA going to the right (where there is a gate that is impossible to enter because a shed was placed right there at the entrance to prevent entry from that side)?

IF the front door had a triple lock and was closed and locked, wouldn't the prudent assumption be that Caylee could not have gotten out that way and they would run to the other points of exit?

I am the mother of an autistic child who is a "runner". Believe me, this light of my life LOOKS for ways to get out because to him, wandering is a compulsion.

FROM EXPERIENCE, (I would bet my life that plenty of WS members can bak me up on this one), if your small child was in your home and then you suddenly realize they are missing, you DO NOT look under beds, you MAY run and open closets eventually (especially if they are in the potty-training mode, mine would like to hide and "do the deed" in their training pants while in their closet sometimes), but the FIRST thing ANY parent, caretaker, grandparent does is look to the entry and exit points of their house: IE the DOORS.

You run to the doors and VERY quickly surmise which is unlocked and which is locked. You run to the front door, triple locked. Not an exit point. You run to the back doors and quickly determine which one is unlocked or locked. I would venture to say that many young 2-3 year olds would not care to close the door, or close it fully. But this is speculation.

Really, which doors were locked, which were open? Did JB ever point out which were unlocked? This is the exit point (should his argument be believed). Caylee didn't open a door and it locked itself back again from the inside.

IIRC, he didn't mention an unlocked door at all, but rather a flustered GA and ICA playing "who's on first" running around the house, checking under beds, looking in closets, behind toasters, you get the idea.

Then they run to the triple locked FRONT DOOR, and open all of the locks (they were locked, weren't they? Did JB say they were all unlocked?) and GA runs to the small patch of yard and to the gate blocked by the shed to get to the back? WHY?

If your home is secure and the FRONT DOOR, most obvious point of escape for a toddler, is closed and TRIPLE LOCKED, you immediately head to the back to check those doors and only THEN, when you are sure all doors are locked from the inside, do you make the time-consuming house sweep.

I spent the day with my sister's three year old daughter. She is a gorgeous, small little thing, about 40 pounds. SOOOO tiny and delicate compared to my 3 boys that age, and OH so attached to her mother and father. Even if CA was wrong about the weight of Caylee, there is NO way that little girl woke up, opened and closed the doors (which locked behind her) and hoisted herself into that pool. This was a precocious, very verbal little young girl who was absolutely doted on by her grandparents. When I watched my niece today, such a little chatterbox to her mother but was also quite shy and used to being "babied" with the pool and the water and eating and everything else, I cannot imagine a self-sufficient hardy Caylee who did this all on her own without waking GA or ICA or letting GA know that she was going to go potty or that it was time for their breakfast.

This last question stands: Did JB question GA about finding doors unlocked on the initial runthrough of the house before the timely, detailed sweep? If not, the DT theory holds NO weight with me.

 

[otto]

What Baez seems to be suggesting is that when anyone smells decomposition in connection with a car, police should be called. Suppose the police arrive. There is a car that smells like decomp. No one is missing - since Cindy had been in touch with Casey and was assured that Caylee was fine - they were not missing. What would police do? I kind of think they would look at it as insignificant unless there was more information.

In fact, police knew that the car smelled like a body had been in the car and that Caylee was unaccounted for, but didn't actually tow the car until a day or so later.

Baez is making an assumption that police will automatically do something about a decomp smelling car, and he seems to be trying to hold George responsible for the fact that even police didn't instantly seize the car when they heard that it smelled like decomp.

 

[countzero]

Okay thedeviledadvocate, I'll bite! lol

Your post that you quoted above, you asked why SB didn't call the police when he smelled decomposition? Good question and I don't have the answer. Why didn't GA call the police?
When SB first inspected the car and smelled decomp, why didn't he call the police at that moment? They both stated that the trash bag was not the smell that was emanating from the trunk. So you stumped me on that question!

IMO I don't see GA as being "evasive & combative". I see GA as a man that is worn out...physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually. I do think JB's questioning is trying to goad GA into a confrontation.

This whole Roy Kronk thing is so unbelievable!!! HOW did RK get custody of Caylee's body? Where did RK hide the body? Why would RK place the body in the woods? I can't recall exactly what RK's statement was but I don't recall any inconsistencies? I also believe the "thing" with his son is revenge being best served cold.

IMO, it is NOT mind boggling that so many people were "near" the area where Caylee was found and did not find her. The entire area was underwater for quite a while, thanks to Hurricane Faye (I think it was Faye?). Tim Miller called off the search several times when he saw the wooded area still underwater. I am sure Tim Miller will testify to this at trial. Not so sure what GSJ is going to say? I just don't buy the Kronk story at all. IF someone can explain to me how Kronk GOT the body in the first place, maybe I can wrap my mind around it.

rbbm:

Ok, this is my theory that could be JBs theory. DISCLAIMER NOTICE: The written below by me is purely fictional and any resemblance to real persons is not intended. FICTION JB FICTION.

Kronk and GA were both on the same escort websites and that is how they met or GA and Kronk both were taken by the internet scammers where they met, commiserating their losses -- take your pick either one could do. Lucky for GA, Caylee died and GA knew this could bring him in big bucks. He persuades Kronk to be part of it to collect the reward. (Neither smart enough to read the fine print LIVE Caylee.)

How did JB find this out. Well it appears he was on the same sites too and whatshisname, the scamming investigator who was at the hearings, found JBs nic (what was that one again - something like jbegood at *advertiser censored*.com ) and blackmailed JB to get more hours gratis.

 

[Harmony 2]

Yes he actually saw them on June 9.

He saw them twice. He claims the first time they came into his computer store on June 9th. The second time he claims he saw them at the Casselberry Walmart on June 16th at 4:00 p.m. This Walmart is close to Tony's apartment and was found to have automatic doors in the front but it had a door that could be pushed on the side of the entrance. Many felt the door would be to difficult for small Caylee to push. I don't want to make this thread about James Thompson but he is on the State's witness list. If they choose to present him he would debunk the 11:00 a.m. drowning time that Baez put forth in his opening statement. The problem with Mr. Thompson's claim is that he waited a whole year to come forth.

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

I'm beginning to wonder if I'm watching the same case. Did you hear what RH said tonight on WS radio? I think he might disagree about the way the case went this week...and he's looking at it from a defense lawyer's point of view.

No, I didn't listen to RH on the radio. I like RH and have enjoyed his blogs, and have often disagreed with his opinions. I have also more often than not agreed with his opinions. So, it would not surprise me at all that his opinion of the opening week differs from mine.

 

[Trapshooter]

rbbm:

Ok, this is my theory that could be JBs theory. DISCLAIMER NOTICE: The written below by me is purely fictional and any resemblance to real persons is not intended. FICTION JB FICTION.

Kronk and GA were both on the same escort websites and that is how they met or GA and Kronk both were taken by the internet scammers where they met, commiserating their losses -- take your pick either one could do. Lucky for GA, Caylee died and GA knew this could bring him in big bucks. He persuades Kronk to be part of it to collect the reward. (Neither smart enough to read the fine print LIVE Caylee.)

How did JB find this out. Well it appears he was on the same sites too and whatshisname, the scamming investigator who was at the hearings, found JBs name and blackmailed JB to get more hours gratis.

countzero! :floorlaugh::floorlaugh:
Dang those internet scammers! The "escort website" made me laugh out loud! I could see JB on the same sight!

 

[carole]

He saw them twice. He claims the first time they came into his computer store on June 9th. The second time he claims he saw them at the Casselberry Walmart on June 16th at 4:00 p.m. This Walmart is close to Tony's apartment and was found to have automatic doors in the front but it had a door that could be pushed on the side of the entrance. Many felt the door would be to difficult for small Caylee to push. I don't want to make this thread about James Thompson but he is on the State's witness list. If they choose to present him he would debunk the 11:00 a.m. drowning time that Baez put forth in his opening statement. The problem with Mr. Thompson's claim is that he waited a whole year to come forth.

You are right, I didn't read the whole statement. How did JB miss this??

If he's on the Prosecution witness list, they must find him credible.