GUILTY Bali - Bali Nine, Australians arrested for heroin trafficking, 2005

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Thanks Emirates1957

It's beyond belief isn't it. I have no doubt there were bribes offered right in the beginning. I'm all for punishing and I'm happy for them not to be released. Just to continue their 'work' inside the jail. They have actually helped and could continue to help many. :(

Totally agree with you. But how frustrating for these men knowing how the system works and the injustice, big bucks can make big problems go away.
 
I'm praying against all odds that Andrew and his wife can share a long and happy life together.
 
I saw his brother talking on TV. He said they had a little celebration today. Amazing.
 
2vmvcba.jpg


https://twitter.com/hashtag/keephopealive?f=realtime

"Where there's life, there's hope and we will continue to campaign on this until we see that we just can't do this anymore and this is why we're all here this evening," she said.

"It's been absolutely overwhelming. Australians have come out and spoken out in opposition to the death penalty and in solidarity with Australians Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran as well as all the others at imminent risk of execution."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-...-for-andrew-chan-and-myuran-sukumaran/6425940
 
Will this help? :please:
Or will the single-bloody-minded attorney general insist on proceeding at midnight on Tuesday?


Indonesia's Constitutional Court has agreed to consider a last-ditch legal challenge brought by two Australian death row convicts .... we have the registration number and we have the schedule fixed on May 12.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/04/27/us-indonesia-executions-court-idUSKBN0NI13M20150427


Today, the Indonesian Constitutional Court set a date, 12 May at 3pm for a preliminary hearing in relation to Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran’s application as to the interpretation of the clemency law.

The Attorney General’s spokesman, Tony Spontana, said tonight the Constitutional Court challenge would not delay the executions.
:mad:

http://www.news.com.au/national/bal...pts-during-qanda/story-fncynjr2-1227323908000
 
So basically the marriage was another attempt to manipulate the system, along with the conversion to christianity etc etc etc .. look I'm anti DP, but I feel like the attempts to manipulate our emotions go a bit (OK a LOT) too far, and if they are executed tonight, which I believe they will be, it will not be the fault of Tony Abbott, or anyone else in Australia .. it is completely up to the Indonesians.
 
So basically the marriage was another attempt to manipulate the system, along with the conversion to christianity etc etc etc .. look I'm anti DP, but I feel like the attempts to manipulate our emotions go a bit (OK a LOT) too far, and if they are executed tonight, which I believe they will be, it will not be the fault of Tony Abbott, or anyone else in Australia .. it is completely up to the Indonesians.

It goes too far? So they are supposed to quietly go to their death for drug trafficking? Heck, I would do it too if it would save me from being executed in a banana republic for DRUGS, because I didn't have enough money to pay off corrupt court officials.

Indonesia allows and encourages "manipulation" when it's in the form of greenbacks. But when it is in the form of desperate young people who are trying to avoid execution for a drug-related crime they committed years ago, that's somehow wrong?

This is about life and death. They are trying to save their lives. They didn't brutally bludgeon to death one of their parents or anything, after planning to do so to get access to money, like the recent Bali defendants who were sentenced to only 10 and 18 years. And they've shown a lot more remorse and maturity than those horrible convicts who flip off the camera and swill alcohol in the court holding cell while holding their baby in one arm.

The real crime they committed is lack of money. Money buys innocence in Indonesia. Or at least it buys life.
 
Its the first time I've posted on this thread, but I have followed the story of the Bali 9 and the other poor souls schedule to die with them, for some years now.

I must admit my attitude has changed over the last few months. Although I don't believe in the DP for drug smuggling, I did used to think that if you know the rules of a country, and choose to break them, they you can't really complain at the punishment. So to smuggle drugs in a country with the death penalty for that crime, it was hard to find any sympathy. But, reading about these 2 men, I can't see any justifiable reason to kill them. For one thing, they have made a huge difference to people's lives in prison, they have been rehabilitated and they have made amends for what they did. Their lives would be better spent carrying on this work, then being snuffed out by a firing squad. And another thing, I think drug users get off far too easily. Nobody forces them to try drugs for the first time, and they make the choice every time they buy or use drugs. They are creating the demand for drugs, but never seem to be held accountable for it. With no demand, there would be no need for people to smuggle drugs from country to country. The "war on drugs" hasn't worked and never will work. Its a huge waste of money and won't ever achieve anything. Killing these people won't achieve anything, and neither will it prevent future drug smugglers from taking the same risk.

I then began to think about the age they were when they smuggled the drugs. Adults yes, but not really grown men. I have children that age - I still see them as kids, rather than adults. They don't do drugs, but I can't say for certain that they don't make stupid mistakes or take silly risks in their lives, or make bad decisions. It just takes one mistake and their whole live path would be altered. So, yes I do have sympathy for them now.

I think that it immensely cruel to have kept someone alive for 10 years, allowing them to rehabilitate themselves and teach other people a better way of life - then for the sake of power, and making a point (and to get some warped kind of thrill out of annoying the Australian Government) kill these men. The way these executions have been dragged out is horrendous, with their poor families thinking they will happen, then getting reprieve after reprieve, as if to prolong the agony - as I'm sure there was never any intention to commute their sentences to life imprisonment.

Having followed the case of Heather Mack, I am absolutely sickened that you can beat a person to death, stuff their body into a suitcase and then get 10 years in prison. It just shows that the people in charge are picking and choosing which DP crimes really do carry the DP, and which can be changed at whim (or more accurately, at a cost).

Also, I am immensely sorry for the young single mother who is scheduled to die tonight. She was apparently duped into carrying the drugs. Even if she knew what she was doing - what possible good can come out of killing a young mum, leaving 2 boys without any parents at all? The lives of so many people are going to be shattered due to these executions. Surely the innocent families don't deserve this?

I think the way the Indonesian Government has handled these potential executions has been absolutely sickening. In the UK press, we have seen it become like a sick soap opera - showing the coffins being delivered, the aircraft ready to take them to death island, endless mock ups of what the executions will be like, photographs of the 2 condemned men on board the plane to death island and today even being shown the crosses being painted with names and RIP, before these poor people are even dead. There is no need for any of this. Its just mawkish and sick. Their poor families must be at breaking point, their mental health must be irreversibly damaged.

I am dreading waking up to see headlines about their execution.
 
It goes too far? So they are supposed to quietly go to their death fro drug trafficking? Heck, I would do it too if it would save me from being executed in a banana republic for DRUGS, because I didn't have enough money to pay off corrupt court officials.

Indonesia allows and encourages "manipulation" when it's in the form of greenbacks. But when it is in the form of desperate young people who are trying to avoid execution for a drug-related crime they committed years ago, that's somehow wrong?

This is about life and death. They are trying to save their lives. They didn't brutally bludgeon to death one of their parents or anything, after planning to do so to get access to money, like the recent Bali defendants who were sentenced to only 10 and 18 years. And they've shown a lot more remorse and maturity than those horrible convicts who flip off the camera and swill alcohol in the court holding cell while holding their baby in one arm.

The real crime they committed is lack of money. Money buys innocence in Indonesia. Or at least it buys life.

Anyone would think these two are saints the way the media is portraying them. It's all well and good to insult Indonesia for their open laws on drug trafficking, but what about the DP in the USA, equally as barbaric, but nowhere near the same outrage. If we're going to discuss the crimes they were convicted of, we do not know how many people died as the result of the heroin they imported, a number of times, before they were caught. Also I think the AFP is holding off on letting the Australian public know all the information they have on these two while their executions are imminent. It is equally able to be argued that lack of money = more chance of the DP in the USA too. Perhaps not as blatant as in this case .. has it been discussed why the bribe wasn't paid, was it taken off the table?
 
Anyone would think these two are saints the way the media is portraying them. It's all well and good to insult Indonesia for their open laws on drug trafficking, but what about the DP in the USA, equally as barbaric, but nowhere near the same outrage. If we're going to discuss the crimes they were convicted of, we do not know how many people died as the result of the heroin they imported, a number of times, before they were caught. Also I think the AFP is holding off on letting the Australian public know all the information they have on these two while their executions are imminent. It is equally able to be argued that lack of money = more chance of the DP in the USA too. Perhaps not as blatant as in this case .. has it been discussed why the bribe wasn't paid, was it taken off the table?

No one is saying they are saints. As if only saints should not be executed.

And yes, absolutely nowhere near the same outrage over the DP used in the US where they do not execute for drug offenses, only first degree murder.

I am against the DP. But it is not equally as barbaric to execute a person for taking a life either via premeditation or through a felony like gross child abuse, as opposed to executing a person for drug smuggling in a country where the only reason a person gets death is because they didn't have the funds to buy their way out.

And yes, more money gets a better legal defense in the United States but we don;t have bribery here. I;m sorry but there is a massively huge difference between outright bribery and being able to pay top dollar for a high quality defense.

Corruption is disgusting.
 
No one is saying they are saints. As if only saints should not be executed.

And yes, absolutely nowhere near the same outrage over the DP used in the US where they do not execute for drug offenses, only first degree murder.

I am against the DP. But it is not equally as barbaric to execute a person for taking a life either via premeditation or through a felony like gross child abuse, as opposed to executing a person for drug smuggling in a country where the only reason a person gets death is because they didn't have the funds to buy their way out.

And yes, more money gets a better legal defense in the United States but we don;t have bribery here. I;m sorry but there is a massively huge difference between outright bribery and being able to pay top dollar for a high quality defense.

Corruption is disgusting.

I think it is equally barbaric, the USA just doesn't think drug trafficking is as equally evil as murder, the Indonesians do .. if you take into account how many deaths occur from illegal drugs as well as other crimes and lives ruined I can see their point. I don't believe in state sanctioned murder for anything, but it's their country, their laws, and they are very open about it, everybody who travels to Bali knows the laws as there are signs at the airport, these guys knew the risks, and they knew the risks they were asking their mules to take too, notice that only the mules had the drugs on them, meaning of course that MS and AC thought that they would be OK if anyone was caught at their airport, and only their mules would suffer the consequences, otherwise there would have been no need to have mules in the first place.
 
I think it is equally barbaric, the USA just doesn't think drug trafficking is as equally evil as murder, the Indonesians do .. if you take into account how many deaths occur from illegal drugs as well as other crimes and lives ruined I can see their point. I don't believe in state sanctioned murder for anything, but it's their country, their laws, and they are very open about it, everybody who travels to Bali knows the laws as there are signs at the airport, these guys knew the risks, and they knew the risks they were asking their mules to take too, notice that only the mules had the drugs on them, meaning of course that MS and AC thought that they would be OK if anyone was caught at their airport, and only their mules would suffer the consequences, otherwise there would have been no need to have mules in the first place.

Do they though? Check out the case of Lindsay Sandiford. She was the drugs mule who got caught with heroin a couple of years ago. She agreed to take part in a sting to catch the bigger players in the scheme. The people who arranged her smuggling trip, Julian Ponder and Rachel Douglas, received 6 years in prison and 1 year in prison respectively. Sandiford currently sits on death row. When you consider that Ponder was known as "Mr Bali", it isn't hard to work out how that happened.

Its not unusual to hear that people who have "snitched" on the big guys, get the death penalty as those they snitched on, pay officials to ensure that they get a harsh sentence in revenge. The people who were at the higher end of the chain then bribe the same officials for a nice, short sentence.

If the Indonesians really were against drugs smuggling, then ALL those found guilty would face the same sentence. However, they don't.
 
Do they though? Check out the case of Lindsay Sandiford. She was the drugs mule who got caught with heroin a couple of years ago. She agreed to take part in a sting to catch the bigger players in the scheme. The people who arranged her smuggling trip, Julian Ponder and Rachel Douglas, received 6 years in prison and 1 year in prison respectively. Sandiford currently sits on death row. When you consider that Ponder was known as "Mr Bali", it isn't hard to work out how that happened.

Its not unusual to hear that people who have "snitched" on the big guys, get the death penalty as those they snitched on, pay officials to ensure that they get a harsh sentence in revenge. The people who were at the higher end of the chain then bribe the same officials for a nice, short sentence.

If the Indonesians really were against drugs smuggling, then ALL those found guilty would face the same sentence. However, they don't.

It's true, it's very true that you can pay a bribe in Indonesia and receive a lighter sentence or none at all, Michelle Leslie is another example that springs to mind: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Leslie These two were offered the option of a bribe it seems, then that offer was removed, do we know why?
 
I think that it immensely cruel to have kept someone alive for 10 years, allowing them to rehabilitate themselves and teach other people a better way of life - then for the sake of power, and making a point (and to get some warped kind of thrill out of annoying the Australian Government) kill these men.

RSBM
BBM

It has been suggested that Indonesia is not at all happy that Tony Abbott has stemmed the relentless flow of asylum seekers being transported in leaky Indonesian boats to Australia. They originate in Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, and other countries, spend a few months in Indonesia, then are loaded onto the leaky, overloaded boats and set off across the Timor Sea. Indonesia has been making a bucket load of money off this trade, and Abbott has stopped it.



Jakarta said it rejected Tony Abbott's recently-introduced policy to turn away Australian-bound boats carrying asylum-seekers who have made their way from countries such as Afghanistan and Sri Lanka, stopping off in Indonesia before boarding fishing boats to sail to Australian islands.

Indonesia sends gunboats and a frigate to patrol its coast after Australian ships illegally enter their waters to turn back asylum seekers.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...legally-enter-waters-turn-asylum-seekers.html
 
It goes too far? So they are supposed to quietly go to their death for drug trafficking? Heck, I would do it too if it would save me from being executed in a banana republic for DRUGS, because I didn't have enough money to pay off corrupt court officials.

Indonesia allows and encourages "manipulation" when it's in the form of greenbacks. But when it is in the form of desperate young people who are trying to avoid execution for a drug-related crime they committed years ago, that's somehow wrong?

This is about life and death. They are trying to save their lives. They didn't brutally bludgeon to death one of their parents or anything, after planning to do so to get access to money, like the recent Bali defendants who were sentenced to only 10 and 18 years. And they've shown a lot more remorse and maturity than those horrible convicts who flip off the camera and swill alcohol in the court holding cell while holding their baby in one arm.

The real crime they committed is lack of money. Money buys innocence in Indonesia. Or at least it buys life.


Hear, hear well said.
 

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