GUILTY Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #4

[Weezer Fan]

I am totally a sceptic and - I'm Not buying all of it - not after the video by the Daily Mail - and listening to some of the responses by the media - nor HM's reactions to them.
There's more to this that meets the eye me thinks.

To Watch the Video at Link:
[video]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2942280/Pregnant-American-teen-facing-death-murdering-socialite-mother-rushed-Bali-hospital-collapsing-bleeding-prison.html#v-4035759935001[/video]

Will the real Heather Arias please step forward rincess: rincess: rincess: rinces: rincess: rincess:

I agree whole heartedly , Fig Tree. I watched HM twice when a pap asked her how the baby was, and it looked like the corners of her mouth turned up a little. Got herself out of prison at least for a while, may have delayed her trial while the bribe money makes its way to AS. She feels good about herself for accomplishing this, and her facial expression shows it-IMO.

 

[Weezer Fan]

The comment from poster "Mandolin" is interesting. It looks like everyone who knew this family saw this coming.

I read that too. I obviously never knew Sheila or Heather, but, I think the dysfunction in this relationship came from both sides. This in no way justifies anything Heather did to her mom, but there is more to this back story than we know.

I have a family member that was put in the position of raising their grandchild after the Mom died. Mom was a raging alcoholic and died very young. Kid was 10 years old. Dad was in jail, but also died, (from a disease). Kid was never disciplined in it's life. The grandparent was the king/queen of letting their kids do what ever they wanted. So, the kid lost both parents, (who were never really parents IMO), and the grandparent, who also didn't believe in discipline got the child. Child became increasingly defiant, got into drugs, didn't go to school, and became threatening and violent. Grandparent left town when the kid turned 18 because the kid threatened the grandparent so much that they were afraid. So, the 18 year old kid is on their own. How do you think this will turn out??

 

[Kamille]

The comment from poster "Mandolin" is interesting. It looks like everyone who knew this family saw this coming.

Well the only thing I can say regarding the comment by mandolin and from what we know about the family from sleuthing is that they have some information incorrect in that comment and therefore don't know Sheila and the family all that well. No doubt they may have been a neighbour or casual observer however.

From what we know, Sheila tried everything she could to get help for Heather's problems. Including therapy sessions that included both of them. I would think that if a therapist thought that Sheila was the problem, there may have been steps to separate them to get the best possible results for Heather? I do imagine Sheila having some rather heated arguments with her daughter, especially as she matured though. Sometimes parents just get tired of the constant battle to correct behaviours that apparently the child doesn't think need correcting. And sometimes they verbally lash out. I believe we've seen veiled comments about this before.

Sheila definitely made some mistakes in the raising of her child, I'll certainly concede to that. I believe Heather was spoiled rotten and indulged by both her parents from birth. I do not believe she was ever disciplined effectively and learned how to push her mother's buttons and get what she wanted through manipulation and eventually violence. I also believe that after her husband's death, Sheila turned to her only child as a source of comfort and companionship and the parent/child boundaries became very blurred or non existent.

Lots of dynamics there that probably either contributed to or fueled what can only be considered a personality disorder or some other mental illness on Heather's part. How else do you explain someone premeditating a murder for their own personal gain with no regard to the victim? Especially when that victim is your mother?

I don't think anything short of giving Heather what she wanted at all times and giving her immediate access to "her money" was going to save Sheila.

MOO

 

[IslandLover]

Well the only thing I can say regarding the comment by mandolin and from what we know about the family from sleuthing is that they have some information incorrect in that comment and therefore don't know Sheila and the family all that well. No doubt they may have been a neighbour or casual observer however.

From what we know, Sheila tried everything she could to get help for Heather's problems. Including therapy sessions that included both of them. I would think that if a therapist thought that Sheila was the problem, there may have been steps to separate them to get the best possible results for Heather? I do imagine Sheila having some rather heated arguments with her daughter, especially as she matured though. Sometimes parents just get tired of the constant battle to correct behaviours that apparently the child doesn't think need correcting. And sometimes they verbally lash out. I believe we've seen veiled comments about this before.

Sheila definitely made some mistakes in the raising of her child, I'll certainly concede to that. I believe Heather was spoiled rotten and indulged by both her parents from birth. I do not believe she was ever disciplined effectively and learned how to push her mother's buttons and get what she wanted through manipulation and eventually violence. I also believe that after her husband's death, Sheila turned to her only child as a source of comfort and companionship and the parent/child boundaries became very blurred or non existent.

Lots of dynamics there that probably either contributed to or fueled what can only be considered a personality disorder or some other mental illness on Heather's part. How else do you explain someone premeditating a murder for their own personal gain with no regard to the victim? Especially when that victim is your mother?

I don't think anything short of giving Heather what she wanted at all times and giving her immediate access to "her money" was going to save Sheila.

MOO

Well the only thing I can say regarding the comment by mandolin and from what we know about the family from sleuthing is that they have some information incorrect in that comment and therefore don't know Sheila and the family all that well. No doubt they may have been a neighbour or casual observer however.

What information do you consider to be incorrect, Kamille? It's not a criticism, I'm just interested in your interpretation of the comment by mandolin. As far as I know, the first recorded police report did concern the denial of access to James Mack's other child. Sometimes it does take an outsider, rather than a close family member, to see a situation clearly IMHO.

 

[SouthAussie]

What information do you consider to be incorrect, Kamille? It's not a criticism, I'm just interested in your interpretation of the comment by mandolin. As far as I know, the first recorded police report did concern the denial of access to James Mack's other child. Sometimes it does take an outsider, rather than a close family member, to see a situation clearly IMHO.

Could it be the stuff about HM recently breaking Sheila's arm? Because that jumped out at me, as well. That was in 2011, so it is not as if HM broke Sheila's arm then as soon as it was healed (or not) Sheila turned around and took HM on a tropical island vacation to Bali.


"Then in 2011, Mack allegedly pushed her mom so hard von Wiese-Mack broke her arm. The teen disconnected the home's phone so the mother couldn't call for help, she claimed.

More 2011 reports detail accounts of Mack biting and hitting her mother."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...bused-mom-repeatedly-report-article-1.1908697

 

[SouthAussie]

I am totally a sceptic and - I'm Not buying all of it - not after the video by the Daily Mail - and listening to some of the responses by the media - nor HM's reactions to them.
There's more to this that meets the eye me thinks.

To Watch the Video at Link:
[video]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2942280/Pregnant-American-teen-facing-death-murdering-socialite-mother-rushed-Bali-hospital-collapsing-bleeding-prison.html#v-4035759935001[/video]

Will the real Heather Arias please step forward rincess: rincess: rincess: rinces: rincess: rincess:

BBM: Good video It just about says it all. Especially her "Oh my god .. " (and shuts window) when she saw and heard the reporters. No way I would care who was there if I was in pain and bleeding and possibly losing my baby, or going in for a way-too-early birth.

Personally, I think she just likes a few regular day trips out of the prison without having to wear handcuffs.

 

[Kamille]

Well the only thing I can say regarding the comment by mandolin and from what we know about the family from sleuthing is that they have some information incorrect in that comment and therefore don't know Sheila and the family all that well. No doubt they may have been a neighbour or casual observer however.

What information do you consider to be incorrect, Kamille? It's not a criticism, I'm just interested in your interpretation of the comment by mandolin. As far as I know, the first recorded police report did concern the denial of access to James Mack's other child. Sometimes it does take an outsider, rather than a close family member, to see a situation clearly IMHO.

According to court records, the child in question is likely not from a previous marriage. There may even have been some overlap of relationships between Sheila and the child's mother? Seems JM liked the ladies. We'll just leave it at that.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

BBM: Good video It just about says it all. Especially her "Oh my god .. " (and shuts window) when she saw and heard the reporters. No way I would care who was there if I was in pain and bleeding and possibly losing my baby, or going in for a way-too-early birth.

Personally, I think she just likes a few regular day trips out of the prison without having to wear handcuffs.

I think she's picking up supplies at the hospital. What was in the green bag she returned with? Linens? Soft pillow? Girl's gotta get the free stuff where she can find it.

MOO

 

[FigTree]

http://www.oakpark.com/News/Article...-murder-suspect-asks-to-be-removed-from-case/

[snipped]...
Elkin issued a press release, Thursday afternoon, stating that, due to the allegations against Mack, "responses to her apparent allegations will not be provided to the media as it is not the proper forum; however, they will be self-evident from filings presented to the Honorable Judge Neil H. Cohen."

My Bold -
What then about TS's responses - I assume we will not hear them either.
I think it will be up to the foreign media to cover this as closely as possible because when the sentence comes down for these two, it will be very interesting to look back and see what impact HM &TS's responses had against their sentence - especially if there are huge discrepancies in the punishment.
Remembering that HM has stated (in the Skype interview?) that Tommy has not pleaded guilty to murder.


Quotes with my numbered format edits

Elkin also noted that Mack is charged with
1) premeditated murder, which carries the death penalty;
2) murder, which carries a 15-year prison sentence;
3) violence causing death; which has a maximum 12-year prison sentence;
4) hiding a criminal, which carries a nine-month prison sentence;
5) and domestic violence, which carries a 15-year prison term.
6) Mack also is being investigated by U.S. officials and could face indictments back home.

How can she possibly state she is innocent of all charges - silly question really :gaah:

 

[Kamille]

Is anyone else curious about why there are absolutely no articles in the Bali press ever since AS made the US news in regards to HM? The photographers are still hanging around because they can sell the pics to the AP or Getty. But it appears that no Indonesian news source wants to touch this story anymore.

MOO

 

[Orange Tabby]

Elkin issued a press release, Thursday afternoon, stating that, due to the allegations against Mack, "responses to her apparent allegations will not be provided to the media as it is not the proper forum; however, they will be self-evident from filings presented to the Honorable Judge Neil H. Cohen."

http://www.oakpark.com/News/Article...-murder-suspect-asks-to-be-removed-from-case/
My Bold -
What then about TS's responses - I assume we will not hear them either.
I think it will be up to the foreign media to cover this as closely as possible because when the sentence comes down for these two, it will be very interesting to look back and see what impact HM &TS's responses had against their sentence - especially if there are huge discrepancies in the punishment.

I think you have highlighted an interesting part of that OakPark.com article, FigTree. Funny, but I see Elkin saying something completely different from you.

Elkin, I think, is talking about allegations made by Heather (“her apparent allegations”) and he is saying that the proper forum to discuss them is Judge Cohen’s court. That court is only concerned with Heather’s trust fund, not any of the criminal charges against her.

So I think Elkin is talking about Heather’s claims that all her American lawyers want is her money, and that they are not doing a good job for her. (Because all that money belongs in her grubby little paws, and right now! -- as she sees it.) Elkin doesn’t want to address that. He’s protecting himself by not publicly discussing what he has and hasn't done for Heather.

Remembering that HM has stated (in the Skype interview?) that Tommy has not pleaded guilty to murder.

What I understood Heather to mean when talking to the newspaper is that during the reconstruction Tommy only admitted to assaulting Sheila. Since Sheila died, it seems a strange distinction. But maybe his lawyers are angling for a conviction on something like “assault resulting in death” instead of murder. I don’t see that flying as far as a crumpled paper airplane, but he’s got nothing to work with, having bludgeoned a woman to death.

Interesting thing about the Indonesian trial procedure: defendants enter a plea after the evidence is presented. So we don’t know if either of them will plead guilty to, say, the lesser charges (the ones with sentences of less than a year) and only plead not guilty to the Big Ticket charges.

Does anyone know if any of Ary Soenardi’s successes include cases where defendants pled not guilty?

How can she possibly state she is innocent of all charges - silly question really :gaah:

Love the "Gaah!" thing!

 

[gracehatter]

I think it's true that any chance Heather gets to exploit her pregnancy with histrionics to garner attention she will. But if there was bleeding I would imagine that the prison has some kind of infirmary given it's size and if they felt she should go to a hospital, I'd guess they would be the best judge of whether or not their facilities were adequate to deal with it.

I remember reading that there was family counseling involved with the juvenile court but to what extent or duration was not elaborated upon. One thing I do know that is commonplace in court ordered therapy is that family members are not always forthcoming with the therapist and I mean both juveniles and their parents. Conversely, unless a judge has specifically ordered what areas are to be addressed as well as the number of sessions, many therapists determine what the focus will be as they see fit. Normally that is usually looking to a causal connection, that is the criminality that brought the family into the system. To be fair, rarely is the counseling going to be in great depth and last an extended period of time. That form of family therapy usually comes when a juvenile is placed in an institution, one that is long term and those with problems that at least appear to be severe enough for there to be a removal from the home. In this case, as bad and awful as it may sound and read on paper, I'm not sure there would have been enough evidence for the basis for removing HM from the home to protect her from SM or to protect SM from HM. As far as we can tell from what info has been released is we don't have SM saying she wanted HM removed from her home nor do we have HM saying she wanted to be removed from the home and good grief, with the number of police contacts, there would have been ample opportunity for either to do so. What that many calls made by the two of them does tell me is there was a certain level of toxicity that existed between them.

 

[Orange Tabby]

Is anyone else curious about why there are absolutely no articles in the Bali press ever since AS made the US news in regards to HM? The photographers are still hanging around because they can sell the pics to the AP or Getty. But it appears that no Indonesian news source wants to touch this story anymore.

MOO

If I understand SouthAussie correctly, and I hope she will chime in on this issue again with her experience of following other Indonesian trials, once the trial starts (that is, when the evidence presentation begins), the reports no longer include much info on what’s happened, and do seem to concentrate on pix and video of defendants going in and out of court.

I note that the reporting silence began with the first day of evidence.

I have already expressed both by puzzlement and dissatisfaction with this, and in more than one post. It is deeply frustrating. But it is not just “Indonesian news source.” It is also AP, AFP, and Reuters (which are international press), the Sydney Morning Herald and other media sources in Oz.

 

[FigTree]

I think you have highlighted an interesting part of that OakPark.com article, FigTree. Funny, but I see Elkin saying something completely different from you.

Elkin, I think, is talking about allegations made by Heather (“her apparent allegations&#8221 and he is saying that the proper forum to discuss them is Judge Cohen’s court. That court is only concerned with Heather’s trust fund, not any of the criminal charges against her.

So I think Elkin is talking about Heather’s claims that all her American lawyers want is her money, and that they are not doing a good job for her. (Because all that money belongs in her grubby little paws, and right now! -- as she sees it.) Elkin doesn’t want to address that. He’s protecting himself by not publicly discussing what he has and hasn't done for Heather.

Ahhh! Got it - Thanks so much for clarifying that.
As you guessed - my impression was different and I wondered why any of the allegations in Bali (regarding the trial) were coming through the Courts in the US via Elkin.
Glad you cleared that up. :blushing:
There was a discussion back in the thread (SouthAussie?) regarding the lack of media coverage which seems to be quiet - and I wondered if that was how news would be diverted and coming through foreign channels.

----------------------

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...dy-stuffed-suitcase-outside-5-star-hotel.html

How prophetic is that text message from HM now - Scifo should have known...
" I refuse to let someone say what I can do, gettin money my attitude you know what it do"



:facepalm:


By sacking her US based Lawyers, HM actually compounded the problem of being able to access her money. And Scifo has to stay on until on until the 27th of February anyway - she has done herself no favours - she has complicated matters and probably will end up paying ($$$) dearly for that outburst.
I wonder if she thought that if she by-passed the US lawyers, she could deal straight with the newly appointed trustee to get her money. I wonder if she had also calculated that if she sacked her US Legal Team she could cut some of the expenses from her $150k.

Its a wonder HM didn't text Judge Cohen and her new Trustee about her 'attitude' - I think they already know though

 

[Orange Tabby]

By sacking her US based Lawyers, HM actually compounded the problem of being able to access her money.

[SBM]

Concisely expressed. I certainly agree with you.

It’s great to see Heather doing damage to herself where she feels it most: in her Gucci wallet. (Or maybe it’s a cheap Asian knockoff.)

She’s done far too much horrific damage to others.

 

[Kamille]

Found a good source for videos out of Bali.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlH5f0xKkdk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNXC-pR3KUc

 

[Kamille]

A few observations from the above videos...

The press only seem to be interested in Heather.

She is uncuffed and left to go to the ladies room on her own.

Her "lawyer" Ary Soenardi speaks at the end of one of the videos. I have yet to actually see him in the courtroom. He does not look like he's dressed for court in the video although he could have removed his robe (note there is others that have not). And what does his statement mean... "As far as I know there is no solution point so the court and the hearing will be continuing here"?

 

[ajaylee]

Good videos - did you notice that the Indonesian guy talking about TS and the room numbers completely screws up himself?

In another video linked off one of yours, I heard the best summary of the current defense:

1) there are no witnesses to the actual killing itself (this is probably why they prefer to say TS 'only' admitted to assaulting SWM.
2) it is unclear where the murder took place (!!)

I wish the media would focus on TS more often, in particular, interview him. I wonder if HM's Australian lady friends are also supplying TS on HM's behalf. I keep watching in pictures and video clips but I haven't been able to see TS's mom in any but the first court appearance.

I took Soenardi's remarks to mean that the motion to dismiss because of errors in the original paperwork had failed (the hoped-for 'resolution'), so the trial will have to continue.

Can anyone make out what HM is saying in the one video when she covers her mouth with her hand? A reporter asks her if she's sad, she says 'yes, of course', the reporter asks if she's missing TS, she covers her mouth and says something about 'doing a better job'..?????

 

[whatthewhaat]

Good videos - did you notice that the Indonesian guy talking about TS and the room numbers completely screws up himself?

In another video linked off one of yours, I heard the best summary of the current defense:

1) there are no witnesses to the actual killing itself (this is probably why they prefer to say TS 'only' admitted to assaulting SWM.
2) it is unclear where the murder took place (!!)

I wish the media would focus on TS more often, in particular, interview him. I wonder if HM's Australian lady friends are also supplying TS on HM's behalf. I keep watching in pictures and video clips but I haven't been able to see TS's mom in any but the first court appearance.

I took Soenardi's remarks to mean that the motion to dismiss because of errors in the original paperwork had failed (the hoped-for 'resolution'), so the trial will have to continue.

Can anyone make out what HM is saying in the one video when she covers her mouth with her hand? A reporter asks her if she's sad, she says 'yes, of course', the reporter asks if she's missing TS, she covers her mouth and says something about 'doing a better job'..?????

She said "because they're doing a better job in the media" and then it almost sound like she says "if I don't talk".. but would that really be her answer to why she's sad? What does that even mean? The media coverage hasn't really been in her favor so I'm confused.

 

[FigTree]

A few observations from the above videos...

The press only seem to be interested in Heather.

She is uncuffed and left to go to the ladies room on her own.

Her "lawyer" Ary Soenardi speaks at the end of one of the videos.
-----
And what does his statement mean... "As far as I know there is no solution point so the court and the hearing will be continuing here"?

I think he actually says "As far as I know there is no extradition point so the court and the hearing will be continuing here"

So I am thinking somewhere in news unreported there was comment or a question regarding the possibility of extraditing the pair back to the US for trial?