GUILTY Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #5

[Kamille]

I believe the slayer rule applies in a civil case as well? When will we see a wrongful death case brought against HM by Sheila's family?

 

[gracehatter]

I believe the slayer rule applies in a civil case as well? When will we see a wrongful death case brought against HM by Sheila's family?

Well, that was my thought Kamille, just slap the civil suit on her. The texts ought to do it.

 

[SwampMama]

I am curious about American law when it comes to terminating rights of the parents who are convicted of murder and have long term sentences. Here is a link about that:https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubPDFs/groundtermin.pdf

Grounds for Involuntary Termination of Parental Rights https://www.childwelfare.gov This material may be freely reproduced and distributed. However, when doing so, please credit Child Welfare Information Gateway. Available online at https://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwide/laws_policies/statutes/groundtermin.cfcfm
I found this interesting statement....from Page 3

Another common ground for termination is a felony conviction of the parent(s) for a crime of violence against the child or another family member. Also, a conviction for any felony that results in a long term of incarceration and requires the child to enter foster care because of a lack of alternatives may also constitute a ground for termination of parental rights.

Of course I understand that Stella is in Bali and that HM is "raising her" and "providing for her" but I feel it just isn;t right. This child has 2 coldblooded murderers for parents and the child deserves better than being raised in jail and then by whoever HM can find to raise her for the 8 years after Stella turns 2 and is no longer eligible to live in prison with HM.

I just wish there was SOMETHING someone could do to get this baby away from those killers.

 

[SwampMama]

This is a link that lets you search the laws on childwelfare by state and topic. i picked the topics of "best interest of the child", "involuntary termination of parental rights" and " adoptive children inheritance rights. https://www.childwelfare.gov/topics...Functionsaction=statestatutes:main.getResults


Kinda O/T One thing I do know is that I have 2 little sisters who were adopted by their stepfather. When my daddy died, they were denied the chance to join our lawsuit about mesothelioma because their rights to Daddy were severed because they were adopted by a stepfather. They NEVER lost contact with Daddy, still went his house on the weekends and were a big part of his life and he was still their dad except for the adoption. One of those sisters was with him when he died and was closer to him that any of his 7 children.

The 2 sisters were born of Dad's 2nd marriage that lasted 10 years but when their mom remarried, he wanted to provide for them and raise them in every way possible so Daddy let them be adopted by this wonderful man because it was for legal and financial reasons that benefited them. None of my Dads right to see them or anything like that was changed. Complicated but my sister's had 2 awesome dads, who both died a few years ago a few days apart. We knew our Daddy was dying but the sudden death of adoptive Daddy in a car wreck so soon after was so horrible for my sisters.

So it makes me mad that they are denied the right to join their siblings in the lawsuit over the Death of our Daddy. But that's the law and I bet HM knows it.

So if Stella were to be adopted, her rights to this trust would be severed and HM knows it. She sees Stella as her golden ticket to get that money that she may lose because of her conviction.

 

[SwampMama]

Interesting article about illinois and severing incarcerated parents right if the child has been in foster care for 15 months out of the last 22 months.

In late 1996, Michelle Spruill was given a 5year sentence in an Illinois prison for various property crimes..... One son was put in foster care. Another son was born in prison, and he also went to foster care.. But Spruill was set on getting her children back when released so she took classes in parenting, addiction recovery, etc

It seemed like she was on the right path because After two years she was released to a halfway house and filed the legal paperwork to get her kids back.
But then she encountered the Adoption and Safe Families Act, a federal law passed in 1997 that requires states to move to sever a parent's right to a child after he or she has spent 15 months in foster care. (States who do not abide by can lose the significant funding that comes with abiding by it).

So if HM ever comes back to the US with Stella and is charged and incarcerated, the 15 month rule would go into effect ( but perhaps if she has a willing person (like Kia?) to take the child then the child is probably not considered "in foster care". But if Kia (just an example) were to get Stella and then sign up for goverment benefits for Stella then maybe that makes a difference?

 

[LinasK]

"Her newborn baby badly needs a mother's love and breastfeeding," the verdict said.

When asked how she felt after the verdict, Mack said in a statement provided by her Chicago-based attorney: "Dear God, I know you don't hear from me quite often, and I sometimes have acted like a jerk, but please have mercy on my soul and that of my daughter Stella, as I miss my mother and father so very much. Amen."

Presiding Judge Made Suweda described Schaefer's deeds as sadistic, but said his politeness and expression of remorse during the trial meant he did not receive a heavier sentence.

They have a week to decide whether to appeal the verdict.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-bali-heather-mack-sentenced-20150421-story.html

Breastfeeding while she's consuming alcohol, cigarettes, and caffeine??? And not the love of a selfish mother who viciously murdered her own mother for her money and sees the baby as a pawn!!!

 

[LinasK]

While not the firing squad, at least 10 years and 18 years are something... Maybe they will grow up and mature in that time period. One can hope.

 

[gracehatter]

"In care" means in the custody of the state, by the state. It can be foster care in a relatives home and that counts but parents that make voluntary legal alternative provisions for their children are not consdered "in care" nor do use of goverment benefits constitute "in care".

 

[LinasK]

BBM

Why not? Has anyone even reported this situation to the Illinois CPS?

http://www.illinois.gov/dcfs/safekids/reporting/Pages/index.aspx

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=1460&ChapterID=32

Then again I guess as long as Stella's basic needs are being met and there is no obvious physical abuse or neglect they really can't do anything. So frustrating. :gaah:

But. but, but... She's breastfeeding her alcohol, caffeine, and nicotine!! How is that NOT child abuse??? Does she not realize everything she consumes passes through her breast milk???

 

[FigTree]

This child has 2 coldblooded murderers for parents and the child deserves better than being raised in jail and then by whoever HM can find to raise her for the 8 years after Stella turns 2 and is no longer eligible to live in prison with HM.

@ajaylee - Stella is never going to benefit from any of the money - in fact, it puts her at risk from people who are interested in the $$, not her welfare.

@Fifth Avenue - Afwul conditions for little one to grow up.

@gitana1 - Seriously. She appears deranged or intellectually challenged in the vidoes of her. I don;t see how that woman is being allowed to care for a helpless infant. I would not be surprised if she smothered the baby or beat it to death in a rage when the baby can't stop crying.

This woman is spoiled and filled with uncontrollable rage that caused her to be locked up for mental health issues and to batter her mother. She is obviously not in control of herself. How on earth can she be expected to safely care for a tiny baby and care for her needs? How is she going to be able to deal with the things all babies do like non-stop crying, teething, not sleeping, toilet training (which for some reason seems to drive so many evil people to murder), getting ill, not wanting to eat, biting the breast, spitting out food, saying "no", demanding to be held or not put down or a toy or the phone HM is holding or whatever? How on earth can this creature address baby Stella's needs without killing her? Seriously!

My bold..

Yes - with HM taking the spotlight for long on this case - its good to be reminded that this child has not ONE but BOTH parents in jail now convicted of murder of the child's Grandmother.
Why then is there even a question about this child being kept in jail?

Putting that into context along with the unsanitary conditions in the jail - and the contact daily with other inmates - the amount of corruption and contraband allowance...
- the child needs to be removed for her own safety, now.

Favia made the point that HM loves Stella and has formed a bond.
HM made the point that she loved her mother with all her heart and misses her every day.
Its not hard to see what is going on there either.


I ask myself - if my parents were convicted murderers and they killed my grandmother - and the officials made me stay in jail to be cared for by the murderer, and I was sick sometimes, and my mother was known to be abusive and liar - and my father was known for his angry outbursts and violence - and no one took me out of the jail where I had to live because they had transferred me the blood money that my grandma had put away.... I really dont think anyone cares that Im here. And I will have to grow up with this over my head. I will always be known as the baby of the Bali Suitcase Murderers.
What hope have I?

 

[RR0004]

Has anyone from Sheila's family commented about the sentences? Their next steps?

 

[ontheclock]

Has anyone from Sheila's family commented about the sentences? Their next steps?

That's a really good question. Beside my normal reading and ranting, I've heard very little from Sheila's stateside family/friends. Maybe they have a plan B in action. I hope so. I'm sure they all know the evil Sheila lived with on a daily basis. Heather still displays herself as a very unlikable character.

 

[LinasK]

Why is Heather allowed to wear leather pants and strappy sandals?? How is that prison garb? And Tommy got to wear a black T-shirt in place of his white shirt.:banghead::banghead::banghead::jail:

 

[ontheclock]

It's like they've garnered some weird form of celebrity status. They make me sick. They're all "poor me, woe is me" then it's "look at me, look at me, look at me some more".

I hope Bali prison isn't comfortable for either of them.

 

[Curious Me]

I love the fact that he freaked out and started threatening the crowd. Showed his true nature.

Maybe Heather will do the same at some point and her sentence will be lengthened.
Heather Mack gets TEN years for ‘sadistic’ murder of her mother http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...end-lashes-s-handed-maximum-18-bars-Bali.html @MailOnline

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...end-lashes-s-handed-maximum-18-bars-Bali.html

Got to watch some of the videos. Disgusting behavior from the both of them. Tommy bashing cameras, throwing his sandwich container, and flipping the bird. Heather swigging something that might have been alcohol and soda from a jail cell. This behavior would not be tolerated in the US while on trial. Their attitudes are still so immature and defiant. Cocky, **** mother murderers, they are not celebrities. Get ready for more drama and antics from Heather with her baby used as a prop. Pray Sheila's family will give her a huge battle. I don't know how this is going to play out for Baby Stella. I wonder what Heather would decide if there was absolutely no money to play games using the baby to her advantage.

 

[LinasK]

It's like they've garnered some weird form of celebrity status. They make me sick. They're all "poor me, woe is me" then it's "look at me, look at me, look at me some more".

I hope Bali prison isn't comfortable for either of them.

The way the reporters call them by name and ask how they're feeling is treating them like celebrities. Just look at Heather against the star-painted wall in the holding cell, she poses with the baby. Her prop!!!uke:uke:uke:

 

[FigTree]

Victim's family disappointed by sentences for Mack, boyfriend in Bali killing
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-bali-heather-mack-sentenced-20150421-story.html#page=1

Attorneys involved in the trust case said they are awaiting clarification of the actual charge Mack was convicted of under Indonesian criminal code.
One legal expert not involved in the case said Illinois courts have not considered the issue of whether a conviction for being an accomplice or accessory to a murder would trigger the statute.


"If the conviction is for anything less than first- or second-degree murder there is going to be a major legal battle here," said Northbrook attorney Mary Vanek, who has argued for the enforcement of the slayer statute in Cook County probate court. "But I think the trustee can make a good argument that Heather is not entitled to inherit if she was in any way involved in the murder, because the intent of the law is to prohibit wrongdoers from reaping the benefit of their wrongdoing."

 

[SwampMama]

"In care" means in the custody of the state, by the state. It can be foster care in a relatives home and that counts but parents that make voluntary legal alternative provisions for their children are not consdered "in care" nor do use of goverment benefits constitute "in care".

Thanks for your help in clarifying that. i don't know all of the nuances of that. What about if Kia had the baby and applied for "kinship care" (kinda like foster care but with a relative of the child)? Is that considered some sort of foster care? And what kind of paperwork would someone need to raise Stella when she is released from jail? Just temporary guardianship or something?

 

[IslandLover]

The way the reporters call them by name and ask how they're feeling is treating them like celebrities. Just look at Heather against the star-painted wall in the holding cell, she poses with the baby. Her prop!!!uke:uke:uke:

Add to that the fawning western expats who are at their beck and call 24/7. I'm sorry but those people ought to be ashamed of themselves. Human rights aside, HM and TS have both been convincted of a sickening crime for which there is no doubt that they are the perpetrators. The way HM orders everyone about also galls me and I really hope that behind closed doors, somebody gives her a good slap. From the videos alone we have seen the true natures of this pair.

 

[gracehatter]

Thanks for your help in clarifying that. i don't know all of the nuances of that. What about if Kia had the baby and applied for "kinship care" (kinda like foster care but with a relative of the child)? Is that considered some sort of foster care? And what kind of paperwork would someone need to raise Stella when she is released from jail? Just temporary guardianship or something?

In Michigan and some other states "Kinship" care is considered foster care. In child welfare looking at relatives 1st as a placement choice is required to avoid the disruption of kids being cared for by strangers. The problem was how do you do that when there is a requirement for "foster parents" relative or other to be licensed by the State but the relative may have some history that would disqualify them? So here the state came up with an expedited method and kinship care evolved. Kinship care will open up benefits for the caretker family and child placed in their care not otherwise available but kinship care would trigger the 15 month rule. A guardianship is a process usually thru a Probate court in which the authority of the parents is suspended and given to another person that has been investigated and approved by the court. They historically were meant to be a temporary measure for parents unable to care for children under many different circumstances to use but yet they could avoid state intervention and termination of their parental rights. This is where it gets sticky...not all states allow for a "permanent" guardianship, that is until the age of 18. You'll see them in cases of older kids but here they are frowned upon because they lack stability, that is parents can petition for the termination of it at any time the conditions that led to the establishment are gone. There are many states that do sanction them for long term.

As I have said all along, HM will try to avoid an adoption at all costs because her parental rights would be terminated and in turn any rights that would normally flow to Stella would be severed, including any rights of inheiritance just as they were in your family case SwampMama and she want any chance to get the money to remain open.