Billings -Couple with 12 adopted children murdered #4

[mom23gr8kids]

Does anyone know if there was a lawsuit/settlement in the case of the poor little Billings boy that died after the medical accident in the hospital in Texas? That could be a very legitimate source of the wealth the Billings family seemed to have.

I can tell you only that I know they discussed it alot after loosing Bailey. Melanie even mentioned using the money to set up a trust that would help other families cover the cost of adopting children with DS and other disabilities. I don't believe this was ever done tho.

I do not know however if they ever actually followed through with filing a lawsuit.

 

[STEADFAST]

I may have missed something from reading so many past posts, but how did this even come up? I haven't read anything that even hints the Billings were, but as I mentioned I may have missed it.

Way back in one of the early threads, there are links to "legal" documents in which Melanie Billings declares herself a sovereign citizen. Then, Byrd did copyright the children's names, which is a complete sovereign citizen tactic.
I don't see the sovereign citizen thing having anything to do with this murder -- except that the perps might have gotten the idea that people who'd declare themselves sovereign citizens might hoard gold and guns.

 

[NSC]

I may have missed something from reading so many past posts, but how did this even come up? I haven't read anything that even hints the Billings were, but as I mentioned I may have missed it.

There is a lot of documentation that shows proof that Billings were interested in becoming Sovereign. I do KNOW they were, though I don't have link for this..but it came from a "source" - can I say that? How do you say something when you know it fact, then there are PAGES of documentation to support this in the clerks office.

 

[Amster]

Posts like this are hardly the way to get one.

Sorry. Several posters have asked for a forum. It seems my post was an inappropriate way to ask for one. Hopefully, by posting out of frustration, searching for news about this case, won't put a damper on what many here have appropriately asked for.

 

[RubberNecker]

I was curious about that tonight too and did a search, but could not find any records of any lawsuits.

there wouldn't be a public paper trail if the issue was settled outside of court between them and the hospital.

 

[NSC]

Are you, basically, saying that Mr. Billings was part of some undercover government agency?

I don't think that was incinuated in his post - he made a comparison, JMO.

 

[Gypsy Road]

Truth is is that people can have many facets. Remember this -even if it is eventually uncovereed that the Billings did have some shady business dealings it won't change the fact that they were loving, giving, generous with their hearts, selfless parents who obviously loved and adored each and everyone of those children, were respected by their friends as well as strangers in the community, and who didn't deserve to be murdered. I think people need to remember that. Whatever is uncovered, these people had goodness in their hearts.

 

[sharlie]

There is a lot of documentation that shows proof that Billings were interested in becoming Sovereign. I do KNOW they were, though I don't have link for this..but it came from a "source" - can I say that? How do you say something when you know it fact, then there are PAGES of documentation to support this in the clerks office.

I believe that is true but what if anything would or could this do with the murders ?

 

[OrdinaryLife]

Way back in one of the early threads, there are links to "legal" documents in which Melanie Billings declares herself a sovereign citizen. Then, Byrd did copyright the children's names, which is a complete sovereign citizen tactic.
I don't see the sovereign citizen thing having anything to do with this murder -- except that the perps might have gotten the idea that people who'd declare themselves sovereign citizens might hoard gold and guns.

Thank you, Steadfast! I get it now. You have an interesting point regarding money and guns. I wouldn't have thought of that.....

 

[Steely Dan]

Thank you for the welcome and Prudence, I have to say that my sentence was not well worded. Tiredblondy really clarified the issue. I said:

"After an adoption is completed, the child has the same legal standing as a biological child and the birth certificate is modifed to reflect that fact."

To be more clear, the birth certificate is amended to show the new adoptive parents as the "natural" parents. The place of birth, time of birth, and physician in attendance remain the same.

My husband and I have often laughed about how we could have parented so many children in a single year or have been in Seoul, South Korea and California and Texas on the same day. I admit, the system is not perfect, but this is how it works.

Tiredblondy is absolutely correct in that adopted children have exactly the same rights and entitlements as a biological child. This is why many parents of special needs children (whether by birth or adoption) will set up trusts for their children. Inheritances can preclude disabled children from qualifying for SSI and Medicaid.

IMO these protection laws for adopted children are often the cause of friction within a family. There are some grandparents and older biological children who can be resentful of an adoptive child having the same rights as a child born within the family. It sounds like to me, however, that the Billings family wholeheartedly accepted the younger additions to the family. Our family has had the same experience.

On another related issue, has anyone uncovered any information concerning grandparents, aunts, or uncles being involved in the children's lives? Ashley deserves all the support she can muster for the daunting task ahead. I'm just wondering if she has any supportive older relatives to help. I've been very impressed with the support the family seems to get from the teachers and therapists involved with the little ones. That support will remain vital.

I don't see how she can do that on her own. I really hope she gets some help soon.

Anything that I have read regarding Mr. Billings has been nothing but, speculation chatter. There is nothing that points, legitimately, that he was involved in illegal ventures. I have read that he may have helped finance a Martial Arts studio for Gonzalez, Jr. as well as an organization called Project FIGHTBACK that Gonzalez ran. Gonzalez was also employed by a used car business that Mr. Billings had interest in, if I'm not mistaken. Several links of connection right there.

FWIW, we all sleuth cases that interest us. For various reasons. Think of the case and the victims.

I don't want this thread to turn into a debate on this particular issue but here's Fight Back's page.


Yes, now it is time to fight back. "We do not simply want to defend pregnancy help centers," Strobhar said. "We want to put Planned Parenthood on the defensive. We want to open the eyes of the public to the horror that is Planned Parenthood. And we want to make the Planned Parenthood hierarchy regret the day they first began the campaign of disinformation against pregnancy help centers."


Does that mean violence or imply violence? You be the judge. IMO, it doesn't imply peaceful methods.

Quote SteelyDan-It does seem to indicate involvement with the "sovereign citizens movement" which seems to be an underground movement with unique ways of dealing with government and has questionable ties. These guys have counted Terry Nichols (Part of the Oklahoma bombers group with Timothy McVeigh) among their group.

Which as I understood it was referred to in the video with the girl. There was something that Mr. Billings knew that was a threat to someone. Perhaps he was undercover?

If he was then it makes sense but I really don't believe that could be the case. His use of paper terrorism seems going a bit far for somebody undercover. JMO

Not really sure why you ask this question. I was referring to MySpace friend requests.

I see, I thought if they became friends that they may solicit friends for donations. I'm sure that would have come out by now. Just curios.

There are lots of people who don't necessarily follow the political philosophy of the Sovereign Citizen Movement who believe the (ridiculous) financial "benefits" of declaring themselves sovereign citizens. There's certainly nothing out there to indicate that the Billings were involved in any kind of anarchist organization.

Their use of paper terrorism tactics seems to indicate it to me. I never knew about it before today. Someone familiar with a tactic that seems to be linked with sovereign citizens makes me think there is something out there. JMO

 

[gazelletime]

There are lots of people who don't necessarily follow the political philosophy of the Sovereign Citizen Movement who believe the (ridiculous) financial "benefits" of declaring themselves sovereign citizens. There's certainly nothing out there to indicate that the Billings were involved in any kind of anarchist organization.

Have you actually GONE to the Escambia website at http://www.escambiaclerk.com and just put "Billings" in for the last name search, and SEEN all the documents that were filed by BB, MB, and on behalf of the children?

Actually READ the documents. I have. EVERY SINGLE ONE of them.

Then I went to the Santa Rosa site here: www.santarosaclerk.com and did the same.

After you're done there, head on over to Google and google "Strawman Redemption"

Then tell me that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE DOCUMENTS (the ones that don't make sense and aren't related to "normal" matters), don't line up DIRECTLY with someone involved in trying to establish themselves as "seperate" from the Gov't or become "Sovereign"

1. Liens for OUTRAGEOUS amounts, payable in Silver, and titled under "Maritime law"
2. Power of Attorney for each of the children, followed immediately by papers (using the new Power of Attorney) that allowed him to "Copyright" each child's name.

No, this is not to protect the children. GET REAL.

IMO, "Power of Attorney" was smart of B.B. to file (on several levels), but in light of all the other papers filed on those 2 sights, that was not the ONLY REASON.

Yes, this HAS been shown to an Attorney and it was agreed that was the intentions of the Filings. :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

[gazelletime]

Are you, basically, saying that Mr. Billings was part of some undercover government agency?

:banghead:

Let me clarify:

IMO, BB was probably NOT a Gov't "Operative".

I was simply making the comparison that it is VERY EASY to lead a double life, even while married!
:boohoo:

 

[tiredblondy]

There are lots of people who don't necessarily follow the political philosophy of the Sovereign Citizen Movement who believe the (ridiculous) financial "benefits" of declaring themselves sovereign citizens. There's certainly nothing out there to indicate that the Billings were involved in any kind of anarchist organization.

IN my response to SteelyDan I was referring to video girl and her allegations that she had been allowed to hear plotting by such organizations. SteelyDan's response gave validity to what she said in the video about her exposure to those people. :truce:

I'm simply looking for connections to anyone mentioned.

I think Mr. Billings was a threat to someone and that is why he and she were killed. I hope I'm wrong but what if he was undercover because of the evil he had found out about and was trying to change???

 

[STEADFAST]

Have you actually GONE to the Escambia website at http://www.escambiaclerk.com and just put "Billings" in for the last name search, and SEEN all the documents that were filed by BB, MB, and on behalf of the children?

Actually READ the documents. I have. EVERY SINGLE ONE of them.

Then I went to the Santa Rosa site here: www.santarosaclerk.com and did the same.

After you're done there, head on over to Google and google "Strawman Redemption"

Then tell me that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE DOCUMENTS (the ones that don't make sense and aren't related to "normal" matters), don't line up DIRECTLY with someone involved in trying to establish themselves as "seperate" from the Gov't or become "Sovereign"

1. Liens for OUTRAGEOUS amounts, payable in Silver, and titled under "Maritime law"
2. Power of Attorney for each of the children, followed immediately by papers (using the new Power of Attorney) that allowed him to "Copyright" each child's name.

No, this is not to protect the children. GET REAL.

IMO, "Power of Attorney" was smart of B.B. to file (on several levels), but in light of all the other papers filed on those 2 sights, that was not the ONLY REASON.

Yes, this HAS been shown to an Attorney and it was agreed that was the intentions of the Filings. :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

Yes. I DID READ the documents. And I never said IT WAS to protect the children. I think they WERE TRYING to MAKE MONEY. But I don't think they were PART OF a terrorist group.

I've repeatedly said that it is proven that they were trying to establish themselves as sovereign citizens.

Please try to be civil.

 

[Steely Dan]

I believe that is true but what if anything would or could this do with the murders ?

When an organization that has a history of violence associated with it it make me wonder. JMO

 

[OrdinaryLife]

:banghead:

Let me clarify:

IMO, BB was probably NOT a Gov't "Operative".

I was simply making the comparison that it is VERY EASY to lead a double life, even while married!
:boohoo:

'kay. Thanks.

 

[tiredblondy]

:star2::star2::star2::star2::star2: To Steely Dan... From me

For the most quotes in a post tonight.....:innocent:

sometime I'm going to learn how to do that.

Night all :blushing:

 

[Steely Dan]

:star2::star2::star2::star2::star2: To Steely Dan... From me

For the most quotes in a post tonight.....:innocent:

sometime I'm going to learn how to do that.

Night all :blushing:

Ten-Q. Night night don't let the bedbugs bite.

E-mail me and I'll tell you how to do it for your posts.

 

[gazelletime]

Yes. I DID READ the documents. And I never said IT WAS to protect the children. I think they WERE TRYING to MAKE MONEY. But I don't think they were PART OF a terrorist group.

I've repeatedly said that it is proven that they were trying to establish themselves as sovereign citizens.

Please try to be civil.

I am being civil.

Who said they were part of a terrorist group? I missed that one.

I guess I should rephrase things:

IMO, and with all the indications of paperwork linked to in the above post, it is quite clear, though not proven in a court of law, and beyond all shadow of a doubt by a jury of their peers, that BB and MB were attempting (or had previously attempted) to make "sovereign" maneuvers, consistent with, and related to, the "Sovereign Citizen Movement" in America, (as described here: [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_Citizen_Movement[/ame] ), but not necessarily an Official nor integral PART of the active movement, per se.

That's just what I think... And you can take THAT ONE to the bank!

:Banane07::Banane07:

 

[Kateyes]

I have followed this case but not in detail, and am now trying to catch up reading all the threads. Although I am not done yet I am convinced that there is more to this than a robbery as motive. The extent to which the suspects went to orchestrate this crime just doesn't make sense unless the motive is more complex. Just my two cents. I am going to try to catch up on some reading here. This case sounds more and more like a movie script, but truth is stranger than fiction.