Bob Saget dead at 65 -- hours after performing live

[agilbe]

I get it. It sounds unimaginable that this was all from an accident/fall. I really do feel this was a perfect storm of events. The term "freak accident" keeps coming to mind. JMO

 

[jjenny]

There could be numerous steps that Bob Saget walked down from the club to the hotel. The whole theory of a brain bleed caused by a fall is that Bob Saget was unaware of the seriousness of the situation, just like Natasha Richardson had no idea she would be dead a day later.

My interpretation of a backward fall isn't that he lost his balance and fell down numerous steps ending up in a heap at the bottom but that he was walking down some stairs, lost his footing so that he fell backward ON the stairs hitting the back of his head on the corner of the tread which could have been concrete, marble or tile. The fact that he ended up in bed means he walked away from wherever he incurred the injuries.

That theory only made sense when we were told he bumped his head. His injuries are so severe that it would be very unlikely for him to be unaware of the situation. He had broken orbital bones, which should really hurt.

 

[Seattle1]

Again, this is incorrect. Medical examiners do an autopsy. Their job is to determine cause of death. They do not rely on what the police tell them with regard to accidental vs not.

In nearly every locale, it's the responsibility of the ME/Coroner to determine both the manner and cause of death. Seems to me this case was no different.

Florida - Coroner/ME Laws | CDC

 

[jjenny]

In nearly every locale, it's the responsibility of the ME/Coroner to determine both the manner and cause of death. Seems to me this case was no different.

Florida - Coroner/ME Laws | CDC

MEs don't do it in a vacuum. In addition to autopsy, they also need information on what is known on how the death occurred and how the body was found.

 

[Shamrock1]

I’m not in health care but I have seen probably 200+ brain injuries. My main takeaway is that brain injuries are incredibly complex and there’s often disagreements by very experienced experts. Sometimes it is a miracle that a person survived a crash - and sometimes a hard backwards fall is fatal. JMO.

 

[leilarose68]

I’m not in health care but I have seen probably 200+ brain injuries. My main takeaway is that brain injuries are incredibly complex and there’s often disagreements by very experienced experts. Sometimes it is a miracle that a person survived a crash - and sometimes a hard backwards fall is fatal. JMO.

Many hard backwards falls are fatal but the point of contention is the amount of and the location of fractures in this case, which makes it so perplexing.

 

[RstJ]

And if police were informed that he was found in his bed, probably bumped his head on the headboard, how much would they investigate? Would they watch hotel video, etc. if he was found tucked into his bed and no signs of disarray in the room?

This is the core of the issue--"no obvious sign of foul play" doesn't trigger an in depth homicide investigation.

--Police have no reason to spend time on an accident. They have a lot of other work.
--Their ME tells them that's what's happened here. Changing his mind makes him look foolish.
--The family does not want to try to turn an accident into a murder. Dividing the estate alone would be a reason to not hold things up.
--The Ritz Carlton hotels do not want a tragic accident turning into a murder as it will create the impression that the hotel is not safe.

Nobody wants this to be a case--except us.

...and yet, his head was smashed and we're supposed to believe he shook it off and went to bed....

R.st.J

 

[agilbe]

This is the core of the issue--"no obvious sign of foul play" doesn't trigger an in depth homicide investigation.

--Police have no reason to spend time on an accident. They have a lot of other work.
--Their ME tells them that's what's happened here. Changing his mind makes him look foolish.
--The family does not want to try to turn an accident into a murder. Dividing the estate alone would be a reason to not hold things up.
--The Ritz Carlton hotels do not want a tragic accident turning into a murder as it will create the impression that the hotel is not safe.

Nobody wants this to be a case--except us.

...and yet, his head was smashed and we're supposed to believe he shook it off and went to bed....

R.st.J

Orrrr he may have known he was hurt, but wanted to get his bearings or take a breath before he attempted to call for help. Laid down not realizing he didn't have that kind of time. JMO

 

[happyday]

Orrrr he may have known he was hurt, but wanted to get his bearings or take a breath before he attempted to call for help. Laid down not realizing he didn't have that kind of time. JMO

Totally. He could have barely made it onto the bed and just needed to rest first….

 

[GatorFL]

There could be numerous steps that Bob Saget walked down from the club to the hotel. The whole theory of a brain bleed caused by a fall is that Bob Saget was unaware of the seriousness of the situation, just like Natasha Richardson had no idea she would be dead a day later.

My interpretation of a backward fall isn't that he lost his balance and fell down numerous steps ending up in a heap at the bottom but that he was walking down some stairs, lost his footing so that he fell backward ON the stairs hitting the back of his head on the corner of the tread which could have been concrete, marble or tile. The fact that he ended up in bed means he walked away from wherever he incurred the injuries.

Agreed. Last show was in Ponte Vedra, the Jacksonville area. He probably had a car drive him the 2ish hours to Orlando. Plenty of places to take a spill in between.

 

[GatorFL]

Again, this is incorrect. Medical examiners do an autopsy. Their job is to determine cause of death. They do not rely on what the police tell them with regard to accidental vs not.

Again, incorrect. In FL, by statute, the ME determines the cause and the manner of death based upon the body and the scene evidence. ME offices employ medicolegal death investigators to further investigate the death of the person. Law enforcement is still responsible for the scene, but the medicolegal investigators also evaluate the scene.

Medical Examiner's Office

ABMDI - American Board of Medicolegal Death Investigators

 

[IceIce9]

I suppose it is possible that he fell twice.

Maybe the first time while standing on the tub or toilet, hitting the back of his head, then he got up, staggered, and fell again, smashing the front of his head.

Which leaves the question, how did he get himself back to bed?

MOO

 

[jjenny]

This is the core of the issue--"no obvious sign of foul play" doesn't trigger an in depth homicide investigation.

--Police have no reason to spend time on an accident. They have a lot of other work.
--Their ME tells them that's what's happened here. Changing his mind makes him look foolish.
--The family does not want to try to turn an accident into a murder. Dividing the estate alone would be a reason to not hold things up.
--The Ritz Carlton hotels do not want a tragic accident turning into a murder as it will create the impression that the hotel is not safe.

Nobody wants this to be a case--except us.

...and yet, his head was smashed and we're supposed to believe he shook it off and went to bed....

R.st.J

Very true. I don't think police investigated anything here at all. Originally his death was believed to be heart attack or stroke. Police don't investigate heart attacks or strokes. Even though his head injuries were severe, ME decided it was an accident. Even though there is no clear explanation how the injury happened.

 

[leilarose68]

This is the core of the issue--"no obvious sign of foul play" doesn't trigger an in depth homicide investigation.

--Police have no reason to spend time on an accident. They have a lot of other work.
--Their ME tells them that's what's happened here. Changing his mind makes him look foolish.
--The family does not want to try to turn an accident into a murder. Dividing the estate alone would be a reason to not hold things up.
--The Ritz Carlton hotels do not want a tragic accident turning into a murder as it will create the impression that the hotel is not safe.

Nobody wants this to be a case--except us.

...and yet, his head was smashed and we're supposed to believe he shook it off and went to bed....

R.st.J

The life insurance company is probably the only party in this whole situation who will want to investigate. Apparently life insurance pays out 2-3x as much for accidents versus something like a murder.

 

[ar3593]

It can happen in fall down the stairs, but there are no stairs in the hotel room. I don't see how his injury is consistent with being found neatly in bed in an orderly hotel room, where nothing is even disturbed. I am concerned that police didn't even do a minimal investigation.

BBM for emphasis. This happens more than we all would like to believe. I have experienced a "minimal investigation" first-hand with my sister's untimely and suspicious death...I have the utmost respect for LE/Detectives however, there are countless unnatural deaths that are not fully investigated...And it is true as @jjenny stated , Medical Examiners do rely on what the LE/Detectives share with them. So if LE/Detective did not perform their due diligence, ME gets a very limited perspective of the circumstances and how the decedent was found. As always, just my opinion and hope no one takes offense to what I am posting. This was a personal experience of mine.. JMHO

 

[gngr~snap]

Hotel must have video of who came and went around the time of his death. I really can't imagine anything happening before he entered the room. They know what time he opened the door with the "room key" .
Question? Do they know every time the door opened? If there had been a visitor or delivery to the door?
At first I didn't believe this could have been anything other than a slip and fall with a tragic end. I am not thinking that way now. IMO I am thinking this was more than accident. I feel like after whatever happened the scene was manipulated and a cover up was done.
Face up on the bed, bags lined up by the door
... (as read in several articles) yet there were still items left around that should have been packed if he had planned to check out and leave at said time for his flight, per many articles.
This entire event feels wrong. From the family comments before the official medical examiners report, to nothing adding up when realizing the extent of his injuries.
I just feel like it was not investigated like it should have been from the get go.
I hope that if anyone was responsible for his death, they are able to find them and they are dealt with accordingly!
I really want this to be an innocent accident. I can't imagine him being involved in anything, that he would end up losing his life over.
MOO

 

[Jennmatton96]

Regarding comparisons to Natasha Richardson, she passed from a subarachnoid hemorrhage from a fall while skiing. I don't believe that she had a skull fracture. Bob Saget had a subarachnoid hemm AND a subdural hemm with multiple skull fractures. With one of the fractures found in the frontal bone. That bone is extremely hard to fracture. It would be the equivalent of falling from the ski lift while skiing.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Again, incorrect. In FL, by statute, the ME determines the cause and the manner of death based upon the body and the scene evidence. ME offices employ medicolegal death investigators to further investigate the death of the person. Law enforcement is still responsible for the scene, but the medicolegal investigators also evaluate the scene.

Medical Examiner's Office

ABMDI - American Board of Medicolegal Death Investigators

What part of what I said was incorrect?

I said "Medical examiners do an autopsy. Their job is to determine cause of death. They do not rely on what the police tell them with regard to accidental vs not."

Your link says:
"The purpose of the Medical Examiner's Office is to bring expert and independent medical evaluation to the investigation of deaths that are of concern to public health, safety, and welfare of the community."

Medicolegal investigators are not usually physicians (your link confirms this by saying there are no specific education requirements). Their job is to investigate.

"The medicolegal death investigator is responsible for the dead person, whereas the local law enforcement jurisdiction is responsible for the scene. The medicolegal death investigator performs scene investigations emphasizing information developed from the decedent and determines the extent to which further investigation is necessary. Medicolegal death investigators should have a combination of education and skills encompassing areas of medicine and law."

https://abmdi.org/faq

I was talking specifically about the ME which is what that poster referenced. The ME is determining cause of death and will say so if something strikes them as being homicide vs accidental. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of cases where the ME's report has altered police investigation so to diminish what the ME's ruling is based on what the police say is inaccurate.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Regarding comparisons to Natasha Richardson, she passed from a subarachnoid hemorrhage from a fall while skiing. I don't believe that she had a skull fracture.

NR's case was an epidural hematoma. Some of us have already corrected that comparison earlier in the thread. They're not the same injury and don't have the same immediate symptoms.

 

[GatorFL]

What part of what I said was incorrect?

I said "Medical examiners do an autopsy. Their job is to determine cause of death. They do not rely on what the police tell them with regard to accidental vs not."

Your link says:
"The purpose of the Medical Examiner's Office is to bring expert and independent medical evaluation to the investigation of deaths that are of concern to public health, safety, and welfare of the community."

Medicolegal investigators are not usually physicians (your link confirms this by saying there are no specific education requirements). Their job is to investigate.

"The medicolegal death investigator is responsible for the dead person, whereas the local law enforcement jurisdiction is responsible for the scene. The medicolegal death investigator performs scene investigations emphasizing information developed from the decedent and determines the extent to which further investigation is necessary. Medicolegal death investigators should have a combination of education and skills encompassing areas of medicine and law."

ABMDI - American Board of Medicolegal Death Investigators

I was talking specifically about the ME which is what that poster referenced. The ME is determining cause of death and will say so if something strikes them as being homicide vs accidental. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of cases where the ME's report has altered police investigation so to diminish what the ME's ruling is based on what the police say is inaccurate.

Your post made it seem like the ME won't consider the scene. Of course they do.