Bobbi Kristina Brown found unresponsive in bathtub. #2

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I have no idea where BB lives-- beyond being WH's husband, and the history of drug abuse, I didn't even really know anything about him. I had to use wiki, lol-- and discovered he's about 10-15 years younger than I thought he was. I'm not the most knowledgeable person about celebrities.

What I do know is that unlike the Jahi McMath family (who are poor-- the family was just about evicted for non-payment of rent in the past few weeks), this family does not have to put up a fundraiser to bring together enough money to find medical transportation to go wherever they would want to go. The tougher part might be finding a long term care facility if she is truly brain dead. But even then, their celebrity and vast financial ability would open doors.

And if they couldn't find a LTC center, they have the financial means to care for her at home, with round the clock skilled caregivers/ nurses. So they have options available to them that a family of more modest means would not.

ETA:
*And even if we pretend that she is going to recover to some level of functioning, she would need about a year of long term care/ rehab, at this point. So, brain dead or not, the family would need to be making plans to find a care center for her right now.

Thank you, K_Z. I took a short route in my post addressed to you and didn't except the first line about BB's state of residence...didn't mean for you to have to answer that. :-)

IF a tabloid leak this day as accurate, BB may well be looking closely into WH's Will/Testamentary Trust to find a way to finance BK's long-term care.

I was thinking that it *might* work to BB's advantage IF his legal residence is in NJ vs what Jahi's mother+lawyer had to do.

Actually my questions are more of a legal than a medical nature.

We know so little, in fact. I am still hoping for the best outcome...altho I feel chances for BK's recovery altogether are grim.

~jmo~
 
I agree. It appears he is in extreme denial.

And if a decision is not made very soon, within a few more days, then it will become very complicated. If she is making no progress at all in ICU, she can't stay there indefinitely.

We are at 3 weeks with essentially no improvement. They have only 2 options: withdraw support, or plan to move her to a long term care/ rehab situation. It's pretty clear that no one is trying to get her off the vent, so I can assume it's not possible, at this point. At 3 weeks, they would definitely be trying to "wake her up" to see if she can have any respiratory effort at all. (That would have happened more than a week ago.)

For the type of injury she has, by report, a drowning with full arrest at the scene, and now 3 weeks of "coma", there are really no ICU level acute care interventions left. The care provided is supportive, not "curative". All of the immediate ICU interventions to improve her chances at neurological improvement have been done by now-- medically induced coma to reduce brain activity (that is usually only a few days), hypothermia, various medications and strategies to reduce acute brain swelling, etc.

Nothing encouraging about her condition has been leaked or stated outright.

IMO, the ICU docs as well as social work, and administrators have been explaining over and over what her condition actually is, and what the prognosis is. I am absolutely certain that the truth of her condition has been explained to BB and other relatives over and over.

I think there will be changes coming very soon, and she will not be in the ICU much longer. If she meets the criteria for brain death, the ethics committee will recommend setting a date and time for withdrawal of support (either in the ICU, or on another unit). The consensus of an ethics committee is a layer of protection for the docs and the hospital. (It's possible that this case has already been evaluated by the Emory ethics committee. Family does not have to consent to a referral to the ethics committee, but are always notified.)

If BB does not agree with that, the case will likely go to court to prevent withdrawal of support, just as Jahi McMath's did. Doctors do not "refrain" from making a brain death diagnosis if it is clearly indicated. Next of kin do not get to "decide" if the evaluation should take place or not, or decide if the diagnosis is made-- that belongs to doctors, in all 50 states. But if the family disagrees with the finding, they can try to get an injunction to prevent care from being withdrawn. And the court will likely do what they did in the McMath case-- appoint an outside expert to do another evaluation, and report to the court.

If she does not meet criteria for brain death, the ethics committee would still make a recommendation as to how to proceed. In that case, if BB desires to continue care, they will have to decide to place a trach and g-tube (or not), and where she will be moved to.

I still think that all signs indicate she is brain dead. I think BB is in denial, and devastated. He is putting off making any decisions, IMO. The hospital, in deference to the celebrities, have extended much more patience and time than they would for most families, IMO, which may end up making the situation much more difficult in the long run. (As we saw with the McMath case.)


As long as she is in the ICU, there is the aura that she is perhaps making progress, and the public grasps onto the illusion that the situation may be hopeful after all.

Info about Emory's ethics committee process:

http://www.emoryhealthcare.org/emor...dtown-atlanta/patient/while-you-are-here.html

Their celebrity status seems to have always been a blessing and a curse. I hope it doesn't become a court battle.

It seems evident her status has not improved in any meaningful way or that would be the emphasis of the press releases.
 
I can't figure out why the family would be saying things are better if in fact her condition is dire . At some point people will learn the truth. The media probably isn't going away anytime soon. I'm not so sure it is denial on the part of the family but I suppose it could be due to not wanting to admit to there being no hope for recovery at all.
It must be very hard for them due to the age of BK and her reported strength to give up on her.
 
I was going to put up a post with a lot of technical references about prolonged oral endotracheal intubation versus tracheotomy, but decided not to, to keep it simple.

The simplified version is that there is really no reason I can find to support NOT placing a trach by this point in a severely brain injured patient-- unless the patient is not expected to recover. Every measure (infection, days of mechanical ventilation, trauma to the airway, ICU bed days, etc) favors the earlier placement of a trach in a patient who is clearly not weaning off the vent.

Some sources say as early as 8 days, others say a little longer. The consensus conference of 1988 advocates surgical placement of a trach if mechanical ventilation is projected to be more than 3 weeks (so clearly we are there with BK's case). In my experience, trach placement happens after about a week on the vent with no movement toward being able to wean. Sooner for elderly patients, as they take longer to heal in every area.

So, one has to logically ask, why hasn't a trach been placed for BK? IMO, the family would surely leak this, as a sign that she is expected to recover and need long term care.
 
I can't figure out why the family would be saying BK is doing better if in fact her condition is dire . At some point people will learn the truth. The media probably isn't going away anytime soon. I'm not so sure it is denial on the part of the family but I suppose it could be due to not wanting to admit to there being no hope for recovery at all.
It must be very hard for them due to the age of BK and her reported strength to give up on her.

Is she doing "better" (improving), or is she just more "stable"? Those are vastly different, especially when considering severe neuro injury.
 
Is she doing "better" (improving), or is she just more "stable"? Those are vastly different, especially when considering severe neuro injury.

The last report was she was doing better from a relative in response to the NE article.

ETA to correct comment. The actual wording from family was things are better.
 
This is a crazy thought, as if this whole scenario is clear.

Could BK have a will that leaves her inheritance to NG? Is that why he is acting so happy? He isn't going to bring it up unless/until BK passes. Does the inheritance belong to BK if she is dead? Can a person will a future inheritance to another person?

As I understand the above post on WH's will, the estate is left in a trust, payable at three different ages to her child. If no child, then estate is divided between her mother and two brothers.
 
There are a number of physiological crises that happen in the early days of severe anoxic brain injury. Blood pressure instability, cardiovascular instability, diabetes insipidis, decerebrate posturing (that can look like seizure activity, but isn't), etc. These tend to smooth out in a week or so.

But the improvements that are quite significant in terms of prognosis are any signs that the brain is recovering, such as eye opening, attempts to breathe with, or buck the vent, return of gag reflex, changes in vital signs in response to family talking to them/ touching, etc. If there are no improvements in level of consciousness (neuro improvements, versus body system improvements), then physiologically the brain injured person is stabilizing-- but not necessarily neurologically improving, if that makes sense.
 
There are a number of physiological crises that happen in the early days of brain injury. Blood pressure instability, cardiovascular instability, diabetes insipidis, decerebrate posturing (that can look like seizure activity, but isn't), etc. These tend to smooth out in a week or so.

But the improvements that are quite significant in terms of prognosis are any signs that the brain is recovering, such as eye opening, attempts to breathe with, or buck the vent, return of gag reflex, changes in vital signs in response to family talking to them/ touching, etc. If there are no improvements in level of consciousness (neuro improvements, versus body system improvements), then physiologically the brain injured person is stabilizing-- but not necessarily neurologically improving, if that makes sense.

It does make sense and thanks so much for your posts.It has been a great help.
 
This is a crazy thought, as if this whole scenario is clear.

Could BK have a will that leaves her inheritance to NG? Is that why he is acting so happy? He isn't going to bring it up unless/until BK passes. Does the inheritance belong to BK if she is dead? Can a person will a future inheritance to another person?

As I understand the above post on WH's will, the estate is left in a trust, payable at three different ages to her child. If no child, then estate is divided between her mother and two brothers.

Yes, imo you are correct about WH's Will, but Bobby Brown was named too. We don't know how his share was handled in their divorce. Apparently in that decree, WH received the Atlanta house. Who knows what the rest of the give&take was about.

WH's Will and the Testamentary Trust created within it were old, not updated, and not the best choice for an Estate plan...nor necessarily her wishes at the time of her death either, imo.

Reference, altho biased in favor of creating a solid Estate Plan:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/trialandheirs/2012/03/15/whitney-houstons-will-was-far-from-perfect/

If NG should present a Will from BK, it will be heartily contested...that much I know! ;-) And that Will would apply ONLY to her assets at the time, not to her future distributions from her Mother's.

Some Living Trusts do provide that despite the death of a beneficiary, that individual's share passes to her/his Estate. WH's Will (and no Living Trust for her daughter) did not make such a provision.

~jmo~
 
Agree that BB is in total denial. As I have said before, I think a lot of guilt is causing this denial as he faces the poor parenting this child received.

Is there no one close to him that he will believe and trust that can talk with him? Can he fly one of the top neuro experts in to give an individual opinion?

It is harsh to say, but he didn't give her attention after WH died, how much attention is he going to give her in an extended care facility, brain dead? If she did miraculously come out of it, she will never be the BK she was. How much attention will he give her then? Will she live in a vegetative state? BB, think long and hard about what the future may be for your Bobbi Kristina? Is that what she would want?
 
I personally don't think that links to stories from known scandal rags such as National Enquirer should be posted anywhere here on WS. I personally don't consider anything this trash rag publishes as credible. I personally wouldn't even waste 2 seconds dissecting or considering any of the info printed in that story, disgusting and disrespectful....particularly the fake pic on the front page.

So if the GF was there and said BK wasn't in the BR long,she must have already been in the house. Otherwise,how would she know that? I'm very bothered by the ice cold water. How many people take an ice cold bath?
 
I personally don't think that links to stories from known scandal rags such as National Enquirer should be posted anywhere here on WS. I personally don't consider anything this trash rag publishes as credible. I personally wouldn't even waste 2 seconds dissecting or considering any of the info printed in that story, disgusting and disrespectful....particularly the fake pic on the front page.

Tricia posted about this very subject upthread. I don't have time right now to find her post nor a subsequent reference to it either, sorry.

I understand your sentiments, nevertheless.

~jmo~
 
Nick Gordon Trying ''Everything He Can'' to See Bobbi Kristina Brown in the Hospital—but Just ''Privately,'' So Far

Natalie Finn, eonline
6 hours ago

Nick Gordon continues to insist that he's been banned from Bobbi Kristina Brown 's hospital bedside.

But he hasn't taken legal action against her family...yet.

"Nick has been trying, privately, to do everything he can to see Bobbi Kristina cooperatively," Gordon's attorney, Randall Kessler, said in a statement Wednesday. "He has respected the family's wishes and for that reason alone has not returned to the hospital and risked a public confrontation. But he desperately wants to be with the one he loves and continues to hope that his request will be granted." ...

http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/entertainment-eonline/20150219/b626928/
 
Is she doing "better" (improving), or is she just more "stable"? Those are vastly different, especially when considering severe neuro injury.

could that mean she is on a trach and feeding tube already............giving more false hope on that day?
 
Video at link. BB's wife went back to LA. :waitasec:

Bobby Brown's Wife -- Praying for Bobbi Kristina ... Beef with Nick Gordon


Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2015/02/19/bobby...support-alicia-etheredge-video/#ixzz3SC9nldJs

Is that where their home is? She is pregnant and may want her own doctor examine her. Her other child may need a break from hotels etc. Stay with grandparents? Could she be making arrangements for BK long term to be closer to them and out of GA away from NG? Just wondering out loud. SPECULATION........could BK be passed now and family members leaving to make final plans now? BB wife would stay by him as long as possible..........
 
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