Bobbi Kristina Brown found unresponsive in bathtub. #3

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Yes the show aired yesterday

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passionflower said:
Seizures...........brain damage
I am far from knowing anything medically, but this I do now because my 2 neurosurgeons have told me.
I have non operable brain tumors........a violent seizure can cause me brain damage or brain death. So I took legal procedures of non resusitation............
BUT my cousins son has epilepsy seizures and they do not cause any harm, doctors just change his meds. It is like a faulty wiring system in his brain.
In the case of a brain damaged person from lack of oxygen (BK) I am wondering is the seizures would do more damage to whatever brain activity would be left?
I do pray that BB is not led by fairy tales and has the strength to let her go.
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:grouphug:
 
It seems like NG has some idea, with the BK tattoo. I guess I'm old school. A TAT that big seems like a memorial tattoo. WH on one arm and BK on the other. He "held them up" was that the wording?
 
^ The "tribute tee shirts" seem like a memorial gesture, as well. Why now?

As Bobbi Kristina continues to fight for her life, her husband Nick Gordon has been cashing in on her condition by making “tribute t-shirts” for the young star, according to reports.

Nick partnered with cousin Jerod Brown over the "business venture" which they claim they are not making any money off. Unsurprisingly, Bobbi’s family are far from happy...

http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/...s-for-bobbi-kristina-amid-health-crisis-52579
 
I would appreciate someone with medical knowledge to answer this, as well. Is it likely, or not, that Bobbi Kristina has pain or is aware of the seizures when doctors attempt to bring her out of the medically-induced coma? It would be devastating for me, as a parent/family member, to know that my daughter/loved one experiences physical distress when this is being done. Would the family be present when the patient is being brought out of the coma? I can't imagine how distressing this must be for BK's family.
 
BetteDavisEyes said:
I would appreciate someone with medical knowledge to answer this, as well. Is it likely, or not, that Bobbi Kristina has pain or is aware of the seizures when doctors attempt to bring her out of the medically-induced coma? It would be devastating for me, as a parent/family member, to know that my daughter/loved one experiences physical distress when this is being done. Would the family be present when the patient is being brought out of the coma? I can't imagine how distressing this must be for BK's family.
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I doubt seriously that she is aware of the seizures or feeling pain during them. While they are are painful for people to watch, the person actually having the seizure is usually quite unaware of what is going on or the pain of it. I know this as someone who has had seizures. The first few times i had one, i did not believe it had happened. I only remember being there and people saying "you had a seizure" and me thinking "no, i did not" and yet could not account for how all those paramedics and firefighters got into the house. I don't remember passing out and had someone not witnessed them, I would not have known I had one.

The pain of a seizure usually comes in the aftermath, when muscles are sore from the contracting and such (or from an injury received during the seizure). I have messed up my shoulder, caused massive bruises and scraped my elbow horrifically while tumbling down concrete steps during a seizure. I remember my late fiance ( a paramedic/firefighter) telling me after a seizure " hey honey, you just had a bad seizure, you are probably going to be hurting pretty bad later so just lay here and rest and let me take care of everything for you". Sure enough, hours later, my muscles would be killing me as if I had hiked all day or some other extreme exertion.

There were also times when I stopped breathing and he made sure i began breathing again. When i would take a bath, i would leave the door open and we would converse, so that he knew I was ok.

Mentally, after a seizure, it can be exhausting as well. It feels like your entire brain has been zapped. Hard to explain how that feels.

However BK has been sedated for quite a while so I imagine that even though she was being brought out of the coma, she was still as yet, unaware of her surrounding and would be unlikely to remember first coming out of the coma (if by miracle she were to survive, which I do not expect).

My brother in law was in a serious vehicle accident and drowned because he landed under his vehicle under water and mud in a ditch (no broken bones) . He was not expected to live because he ingested so much water and mud into his lungs and was kept sedated for quite a while. Even when he came out of that he does not remember many of those days (weeks actually) when he drove us crazy by insisting he was going to leave and go home and other odd comments that told us he was just "not there" mentally. He even called his wife by the wrong name (but similar name) for weeks. (He has fully recovered but still does not remember so much of it.

But from the first few days, we had great hope because he WAS taking a few breaths above the ventilator setting. Meaning that even heavily sedated and on a vent that did the breathing for him, his body/brain was taking breaths beyond what the machine did. I do not think this is the case with BK or we likely would have heard of this because it is an indicator that the patient is fighting to stay alive and that their basic involuntary body function of breathing is still present.

Of course K_Z can likely explain it all better and properly (and has explained a lot up thread) and my explanations are likely very basic and not completely medically based but rather experience based. Her great knowledge comes from extensive education and work experience, whereas mine was simply personal experience with limited medical background. K_Z is simply awesome and such an amazing resource and educator here in help us understand situations like this.
 
passionflower said:
I wonder if Cissy is still going everyday?
It has to be so hard watching all of this.
IF BK organs fail, will she just pass peacefully even hooked up to everything?
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Sending thoughts and prayers to you regarding your condition.

BIB - Hopefully K_Z will provide her professional knowledge on this, but I can share my personal experience.

The circumstances are different than BK's in that when my father was in his 50s he was in a drug induced coma and on life support for several weeks after having triple bypass surgery. He was put on a ventilator because his lungs had filled with fluid and was placed in a drug induced coma because of the discomfort caused by the ventilator tube that was inserted into his mouth and ran down his throat. He kept trying to pull the tube out so they had to put him in a medically induced coma so the breathing machine could do its job. After 7 weeks his body had just had enough, and he went into cardiac arrest.

So as for your original question... Although his medical condition was different than BK's, IMO my father did not pass peacefully. To me, passing peacefully would be in one's sleep with no pain. A medically induced coma is not sleep. It's just a forced suppression of consciousness via drugs. IMO there is nothing peaceful about passing away in the hospital while hooked up to machines, especially when said machines merely prolong the dying process until a different body system fails.

My heart breaks for this family. It is incredibly painful to wait in vain for your loved one to show the slightest indication of hope for improvement. I cannot imagine anything more difficult than being faced with the decision of when to withdraw life support for your child. I hope Bobby finds the strength to let her go, and that he will be at peace with his decision. He must be in unimaginable pain.
 
BetteDavisEyes said:
Question for those with medical knowledge: How many times can a patient be safely placed in/brought out of medically-induced coma? Does this become dangerous for the patient at some point?
Click to expand...

passionflower said:
Seizures...........brain damage
I am far from knowing anything medically, but this I do now because my 2 neurosurgeons have told me.
I have non operable brain tumors........a violent seizure can cause me brain damage or brain death. So I took legal procedures of non resusitation............
BUT my cousins son has epilepsy seizures and they do not cause any harm, doctors just change his meds. It is like a faulty wiring system in his brain.
In the case of a brain damaged person from lack of oxygen (BK) I am wondering is the seizures would do more damage to whatever brain activity would be left?
I do pray that BB is not led by fairy tales and has the strength to let her go.
Click to expand...

BetteDavisEyes said:
I would appreciate someone with medical knowledge to answer this, as well. Is it likely, or not, that Bobbi Kristina has pain or is aware of the seizures when doctors attempt to bring her out of the medically-induced coma? It would be devastating for me, as a parent/family member, to know that my daughter/loved one experiences physical distress when this is being done. Would the family be present when the patient is being brought out of the coma? I can't imagine how distressing this must be for BK's family.
Click to expand...

Forgive my brief reply, as I'm on a mobile device.

A "medically induced coma" is analogous to a deep general anesthetic. Brain activity and brain metabolism is suppressed. In the case of seizures from the severe global brain damage of hypoxic encephalopathy, the drugs suppress that seizure activity. You can't keep someone in a medically induced coma forever. In the case of these kinds of seizures, which are not at all the same as epilepsy, the intractable seizures are an indication of impending death.

Background: Prognosis of status epilepticus (SE) depends on its cause, but there is uncertainty as to whether SE represents an independent outcome predictor for a given etiology. Cerebral anoxia is a relatively homogenous severe encephalopathy. Postanoxic SE is associated to a nearly 100% mortality in this setting; however, it is still unclear whether this is a severity marker of the underlying encephalopathy, or an independent factor influencing outcome. The goal of this study was to assess if postanoxic SE is independently associated with mortality after cerebral anoxia.
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http://www.neurology.org/content/69/3/255.abstract
 
Basically, the brain damage is severe. The medically induced coma/ deep general anesthetic is not fixing anything. It's just keeping her heart beating a little longer. People in these circumstances are as close to death as it is possible to be without actually being dead. Thankfully, people in this state aren't capable of awareness or pain.

If/ when they withdraw support, they will keep her on the drugs that are suppressing the seizures. Then the ventilator will be withdrawn/ ventilator "hoses" will be disconnected from the tracheostomy tube. Monitors turned off before that. No alarms clanging, or frantic medical staff. Family allowed to be there, and may touch and hold the loved one, pray, etc. The last vent breath will likely be the last one, no gasping, since the drugs will suppress and intrinsic respiratory effort. It takes the heart a few minutes to stop. Then it's over. That's how it usually goes. It can be a very peaceful process. Hope that helps. And again, I apologize for being very direct and clinical. Hard to type on these small virtual keyboards.
 
I am sending BB some thoughts and prayers---hoping he had the strength and good sense to end this, for his beloved Daughters sake. He is not doing her any favors, even though I understand how hard this is for him. It is impossible to do, I am sure, but it has to be done. :rose:
 
K_Z said:
Basically, the brain damage is severe. The medically induced coma/ deep general anesthetic is not fixing anything. It's just keeping her heart beating a little longer. People in these circumstances are as close to death as it is possible to be without actually being dead. Thankfully, people in this state aren't capable of awareness or pain.

If/ when they withdraw support, they will keep her on the drugs that are suppressing the seizures. Then the ventilator will be withdrawn/ ventilator "hoses" will be disconnected from the tracheostomy tube. Monitors turned off before that. No alarms clanging, or frantic medical staff. Family allowed to be there, and may touch and hold the loved one, pray, etc. The last vent breath will likely be the last one, no gasping, since the drugs will suppress and intrinsic respiratory effort. It takes the heart a few minutes to stop. Then it's over. That's how it usually goes. It can be a very peaceful process. Hope that helps. And again, I apologize for being very direct and clinical. Hard to type on these small virtual keyboards.
Click to expand...

We so appreciate your information and educating us on these things, K_Z....a sincere and huge "thank you!"
 
K_Z Thank you so much for all info...........

:rose: time to say good bye, BB she will be with her mom, you will join them both someday :rose:
 
Caring for a patient in this state has to be hard also for the nurses, doctors and all ..............bless them also
 
I think it's very unlikely at this point she is going to recover. The longer patient stays in the coma, the less chance of recovery. I am afraid it doesn't look good.
 
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