Book released by Defense Atty Nov 2015 #1

[Steve44]

With TA, she manipulates always on tiny and irrelevant details. Almost anything he says, evidently. She tries to extend every little conversational "transaction" with him to give herself more stake in his life. But TA only interacts with her on minutiae, not the important things in his life.

Also, the "payment" may be money and sex. TA is aware JA has to have her jollies.

Interesting interpretation! Very manipulative, and just the sort of thing she would do.

 

[Steve44]

MDLR could be in some hot water that we haven't heard about yet. But I definitely think she helped CMJA smuggle things out of that jail. That crap about those pics being evidence for trial is bull. She was selling those pics and needed to get them out of the jail.

MDLR was strange. She seemed to play the role of JA's enabler, particularly on SM, rather than produce any 'mitigating factors', which she never did. Why was she necessary at all? Where is it written that accused murderers are to be assigned a gofer and BFF?

 

[RickshawFan]

I think you're right. Remember when he complained directly to the COA (justifying closed court) about meanies saying mean things online about the DT (the COA told him its part of the job and to suck it up).

He IS thin skinned, and the more I think about it the more I think this is about his almost pathological dislike and envy of JM (trying to steal his thunder about promised reveal of who the killer really is), and a spiteful smack down of a client who had the gall to undermine him and the case he wanted to present.


ETA...Nurmi needs to concede defeat. He self publishes a rant about his ex-client and is getting slammed on SM, JM has a real publisher, a large # of preorders and will be taking 2 months off for a national book signing tour. LOL.

I believe Nurmi is not thick-skinned as most people think. He seems to me dissociated: he's had to separate what he has to do and seem from what he is internally experiencing. I have always thought this because of his demeanor: there's a "disconnect" and he often had to "check out" (e.g. by lounging). Wilmot is all "present" (unfortunately). Juan, too: he has a knack for not showing his feelings but this is not dissociation.

(JA is not at all dissociated: she never "checks out".)

I would definitely not be faulting Nurmi for being able to dissociate (this ability very often comes from a life-threatening trauma experience), but I would if he was knowingly using this ability to do terrible things.

I believe we should maybe have some compassion for Nurmi as a person, just not as an attorney. What he did was despicable, but it might really not represent who he is and what he struggles with. I think he was in a terrible position.

Just my two cents: how one is in the world is not necessarily at all the same thing as who one is as a person. The split is inevitable for someone who has dissociation as a survival strategy.

Now you're all going to get on my case.....

 

[pinkandgreenmom]

MDLR was strange. She seemed to play the role of JA's enabler, particularly on SM, rather than produce any 'mitigating factors', which she never did. Why was she necessary at all? Where is it written that accused murderers are to be assigned a gofer and BFF?

I agree. I wonder how different the JA/MDLR relationship was from any other "normal" DP trial in AZ. I don't know if that was ever discussed here. I'd be curious to know, though.

 

[Steve44]

I believe Nurmi is not thick-skinned as most people think. He seems to me dissociated: he's had to separate what he has to do and seem from what he is internally experiencing. I have always thought this because of his demeanor: there's a "disconnect" and he often had to "check out" (e.g. by lounging). Wilmot is all "present" (unfortunately). Juan, too: he has a knack for not showing his feelings but this is not dissociation.

(JA is not at all dissociated: she never "checks out".)

I would definitely not be faulting Nurmi for being able to dissociate (this ability very often comes from a life-threatening trauma experience), but I would if he was knowingly using this ability to do terrible things.

I believe we should maybe have some compassion for Nurmi as a person, just not as an attorney. What he did was despicable, but it might really not represent who he is and what he struggles with. I think he was in a terrible position.

Just my two cents: how one is in the world is not necessarily at all the same thing as who one is as a person. The split is inevitable for someone who has dissociation as a survival strategy.

Now you're all going to get on my case.....

We all have personal responsibility for our actions. If he's 'forced' to disassociate because what he chooses to do for a living is so not 'him' I see no reason to sympathize.

 

[Hope4More]

In December 2007, JA texts TA saying she is cleaning house for some guy. TA asks her if he is paying less to her than he he is. JA twists it, and TA asks why can't answer a simple question.

Then she says "he's paying me the same". OMG she would drive me crazy too. Total manipulation.

The manipulation of that text began when she sent it to Travis "accidentally." She really did rely upon a threadbare bag of few tricks. She sent it then texted- whoops, not meant for you. Isn't it the same text in which she's basically trying to get Travis to commit to taking her to a Mormon Xmas light show, by pretending some nameless friend whose house she's cleaning wants to take her?

The other context besides the familiar accidental sending is that Travis had her clean his house as a favor to HER, because she was so broke. Thing is, so was he, especially that month when he shelled out thousands towards tithing in one fell sweep because he had either miscalculated the amt or didn't have it to pay earlier.

So here she is, earning money cleaning someone else's house, supposedly. Of course he wanted to know how much she was getting paid. Probably hoped it was enough to tell her she'd be better off sticking to cleaning that other house, not his.

 

[Steve44]

I agree. I wonder how different the JA/MDLR relationship was from any other "normal" DP trial in AZ. I don't know if that was ever discussed here. I'd be curious to know, though.

I suspect it's largely the same, but highly dependent on the nature of the accused. MDLR was compliant with Arias' wishes, so she became her public fool.

The role probably evolved in the legal system from the point an advocate for the accused felt the State, because of its power, and in the interest of fairness, should pay for an independent advocate. No specific duties, except find mitigators if you can, and very little oversight.

 

[Steve44]

(JA is not at all dissociated: she never "checks out".)

She never checks out because she's never checked in.

 

[RickshawFan]

We all have personal responsibility for our actions. If he's 'forced' to disassociate because what he chooses to do for a living is so not 'him' I see no reason to sympathize.

He tried to get off the case. He was forced to stick with it.

And I'm not suggesting "sympathy"; I'm suggesting we not be so judgmental about him as a person.

 

[pacnwgal]

I believe Nurmi is not thick-skinned as most people think. He seems to me dissociated: he's had to separate what he has to do and seem from what he is internally experiencing. I have always thought this because of his demeanor: there's a "disconnect" and he often had to "check out" (e.g. by lounging). Wilmot is all "present" (unfortunately). Juan, too: he has a knack for not showing his feelings but this is not dissociation.

(JA is not at all dissociated: she never "checks out".)

I would definitely not be faulting Nurmi for being able to dissociate (this ability very often comes from a life-threatening trauma experience), but I would if he was knowingly using this ability to do terrible things.

I believe we should maybe have some compassion for Nurmi as a person, just not as an attorney. What he did was despicable, but it might really not represent who he is and what he struggles with. I think he was in a terrible position.

Just my two cents: how one is in the world is not necessarily at all the same thing as who one is as a person. The split is inevitable for someone who has dissociation as a survival strategy.

Now you're all going to get on my case.....

I'm not going to get on your case. I imagine in his personal life, Nurmi is probably a nice person and would make a good neighbor, etc..., etc... but I don't think he did a great job as an attorney. Instead of throwing every "horrible" possible on the table and making the victim out to be the next Hitler, a more sophisticated attorney could have nuanced the domestic violence testimony and toned it down to a level more people could identify with. NOT THAT I THINK THAT HAPPENED, I don't and I don't think it was proven in court either. I'm just saying that it was frustrating to hear talking-head attorneys always sticking up for him and notifying the public that "this is what defense lawyers do" as if we didn't also pass U.S. History and Constitutional Law in high school, but still, even if that's what defense attorneys do, that doesn't mean he did it well. For Nurmi to now turn around and throw up all over CMJA instead of assessing his own performance is what really bothers me more than anything about his book.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

What exactly is he talking about. I posted earlier about her acting as her own lawyer in Aug of 2011 and at that time giving the letters to some witness but I was wrong. The letters were already written and the evidentiary hearing in Aug 8, 9, & 15 were about those letters. She wrote that note in the magazines to give to one of the witnesses that was to testify in the August hearing BEFORE he testified. I think it was Matt. When acting as her own lawyer she was allowed by the court to talk to two witnesses on the phone and then tell the court if the witnesses needed to be present to testify. (???)

There was also a prisoner named Heather Nitterauer that testified at this hearing, then was escorted back to the DOC, a number of other witnesses testified, at the hearing 8/8/2011 and 8/9/2011 The hearing concluded on 8/15/2011 and CMJA asked the court to reinstate Nurmi and Washington as her attorneys. Also the Court granted the states motion to preclude the letters. The defense withdrew their objection to the states motion to preclude the letters.

Lastly the state agreed to preclude them from arguing the defendants Pro Per Status (her acting as her own attorney) I don't get that part. Except the jury might suspect, just like me, that she used this time to do nefarious deeds. I hope Nurmi tells about that time.

Jodi tried to send the magazine out by Ann Campbell to hand them off to someone, maybe her girlfriend Donavan Bering?. Most think it was MM. During the trial nurmi and wilmont weren't happy when Juan pulled those magazines out. They asked to see them, spent time looking over them, wilmont started pointing at a page, then they went back and forth looking then asked to approach. They had access to them but didn't realized their importance. They were also caught off guard with the gas receipt and her bank statement with her buying gas to fill her car and three gas cans. You know if Juan's math is correct. IIRC MM said he was the one the magazines were to be given him.

Jodi helping in her defense also had access to jury list and any other thing she wanted. I'm glad to hear just how hard it was dealing with her. And I guess we have the reason none of her family took the stand for her. They really didn't have much to say about her. Grandma Caroline(s) came close in talking about Jodi and how she was.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

Do you have that piece of the court tape? It isn't in the clip above.

JSS did have her moments of genius and drama. Another favorite was when Jodi refused to allocute, and JSS asked her a) if she was taking her meds and b) if she was nuts (or something similar). Whichever one JA picked, it was going to be a bad answer. For instance, if she said no to a), she was out of compliance of her own doing, because she was supposed to be on meds and these can make you think straight and/or she's out of touch with what a psychopath she is; if she said yes to a) she's potentially not thinking quite straight because some meds can sometimes dull your senses or alternately, she was thinking extremely straight because the meds had cleared her mind, in which case she'd look just plain arrogant cray cray.

I'm not sure JSS prepared these questions. I think she was just on top of her game and being astute.

I took it as JSS making a record so Jodi couldn't come back with any claims that she wasn't given whatever because she was asked or told about it.

 

[krkrjx]

I can't help but wonder if Nurmi is intending to muck things up appeal-wise. I can see him needing to set things straight as far as how he felt about the killer and why he did some things he did, woeful as his attempts to do so are. What I can't see yet is his doing this now, when the appeals process has just begun. Certainly things he says and does even now might be scrutinized during the appeals process. I am not saying there are grounds for anything to happen with the killer's appeals based on Nurmi's book but who knows for sure. Maybe he hates that he lost this case on all levels. He has to be aware that he did not keep this killer of death row--a rogue juror did that.

What if he is still trying to make something happen in the killer's favor? It sounds ludicrous even as I type it but for crying out loud I can't come up with anything else to explain why Nurmi is doing this NOW. Later I could understand, but why now?

 

[G&AMom]

My initial reaction on hearing that Nurmi was publishing a book was that it was going to be mostly attacks on Juan Martinez and some attempts to rehabilitate his witnesses. While I think that's true, I feel kind of dumb for not realizing that probably his main motivation is to rehabilitate himself. What he doesn't seem to realize is that people don't dislike him simply because he represented Jodi. It's his own behavior that's the problem. He can say he "disliked her nine days out of ten" all he wants, but it's his attacks on Travis, calling him an abuser and a pedophile, that earned him people's hatred.

I remember when Wilmott made her last remarks at Jodi's sentencing that she claimed she'd never called Travis a pedophile and in the same breath said that as a defense attorney she was entitled to use any argument to defend her client. I thought at the time it was an odd thing to say and wondered if she was getting even more negative feedback than I realized. Maybe that's the reason Nurmi is putting this book out now -- his representation of Jodi is having a hugely negative impact on his law practice and the rest of his life.

 

[pacnwgal]

I can't help but wonder if Nurmi is intending to muck things up appeal-wise. I can see him needing to set things straight as far as how he felt about the killer and why he did some things he did, woeful as his attempts to do so are. What I can't see yet is his doing this now, when the appeals process has just begun. Certainly things he says and does even now might be scrutinized during the appeals process. I am not saying there are grounds for anything to happen with the killer's appeals based on Nurmi's book but who knows for sure. Maybe he hates that he lost this case on all levels. He has to be aware that he did not keep this killer of death row--a rogue juror did that.

What if he is still trying to make something happen in the killer's favor? It sounds ludicrous even as I type it but for crying out loud I can't come up with anything else to explain why Nurmi is doing this NOW. Later I could understand, but why now?

IMHO the now versus later is money. Any tell-all will make more money while interest is high. I know because I wasted a lot of time and money on some of the books that were released during and right after CMJA's trial That doesn't include Behind the Words, those volumes were worth every penny!

 

[samspace070]

July 8 and Sep 17, 2009 - Mark Stanoch (ABC) visits JA
July 2011 - JM interviewed MM
Aug 4, 2011- JA tried to pass megazines with coded message
Aug 8, 9, 15, 2011 - Hearings PARTLY dealing with pedo allegation

Coded message:
Mark Stanoch 520-256-1178 (ABC)
You *advertiser censored*** up. What you told my attorney next day directly contradicts what I've been saying for over a year. Get down here ASAP and see me before you talked to them again and before you testify so we can fix this. Interview was excellent. Must talk ASAP.

What is JA really trying to fix? I believe the secret message was indeed for MM but not about the pedo allegation or the fake letter. If you read the message very carefully, JA wanted to fix something MM told HER ATTORNEY, not JM. She wanted to cook somthing up with MM unbeknownst to her own attorney. And it has something to do with her interview with Mark Stanoch, because she mentions it was excellent. When she says 'what you told my attorney next day', what does she mean by it? Next day to which event? Did Matt talk to her attorney the next day she interviewed with Stanoch in July/Sep 2009 when she was still claiming the Ninja story?
At any rate, I don't believe MM wrote the fake pedo letter, because if he did, MM would be in sync with JA's new story in Aug 2011 and he clearly was not.

In Juan's closing rebuttal he responds to Nurmi saying in his closing, "that if JA wanted to hurt TA about his pedo problem, she could have told the media", by bring up the Mark Stanoch notation in the coded messages. But if the interview was in 2009, why did Juan bring it up? Juan seemed to be trying to say the coded messages had something to do with the pedo letters. I am completely at sea on this because if Juan knew about the 3x5 cards why would he need anymore information.

 

[Hatfield]

IMHO the now versus later is money. Any tell-all will make more money while interest is high. I know because I wasted a lot of time and money on some of the books that were released during and right after CMJA's trial That doesn't include Behind the Words, those volumes were worth every penny!

I agree MONEY is the main motivating factor for releasing Part 1. His book is not even done and he wants to cash in while the goings good.

There are obviously secondary and tertiary reasons he may have but MONEY I think trumps all.

I think he is willing to risk any potential client attorney issues because the visions of huge $$$.

Based on how lots of things just get "slap on wrist" I don't think he has to worry too much. There may be lots of talk and maybe even motions from JA but in the long run I don't think it will affect him too much. Even if rules are blatantly broken I don't think much will come about it. The talk will be large but the actual affect I don't think will be too much.

JMO and I maybe wrong.

 

[G&AMom]

I agree MONEY is the main motivating factor for releasing Part 1. His book is not even done and he wants to cash in while the goings good.

There are obviously secondary and tertiary reasons he may have but MONEY I think trumps all.

I think he is willing to risk any potential client attorney issues because the visions of huge $$$.

Based on how lots of things just get "slap on wrist" I don't think he has to worry too much. There may be lots of talk and maybe even motions from JA but in the long run I don't think it will affect him too much. Even if rules are blatantly broken I don't think much will come about it. The talk will be large but the actual affect I don't think will be too much.

JMO and I maybe wrong.

Hatfield, I agree with you and Pacnwgirl that money is a big motivating factor, but I tend to think ego trumps money in the long run. Lol and JMO.

 

[krkrjx]

I agree MONEY is the main motivating factor for releasing Part 1. His book is not even done and he wants to cash in while the goings good.

There are obviously secondary and tertiary reasons he may have but MONEY I think trumps all.

I think he is willing to risk any potential client attorney issues because the visions of huge $$$.

Based on how lots of things just get "slap on wrist" I don't think he has to worry too much. There may be lots of talk and maybe even motions from JA but in the long run I don't think it will affect him too much. Even if rules are blatantly broken I don't think much will come about it. The talk will be large but the actual affect I don't think will be too much.

JMO and I maybe wrong.

Yes, we could all be wrong, or we could all be at least partially right.

One thing for sure is not much happens to attorneys who push the envelope. Even in the off chance that they are investigated by the bar, nothing ever comes of it. As long as they didn't come to court drunk or threaten anyone with bodily harm, pretty much anything goes it seems.

It's not right but it is what it is.

 

[krkrjx]

IMHO the now versus later is money. Any tell-all will make more money while interest is high. I know because I wasted a lot of time and money on some of the books that were released during and right after CMJA's trial That doesn't include Behind the Words, those volumes were worth every penny!

That could be a big part of it. Also, I think Nurmi tries to copy JM. He may not hate JM as much as he envies him. IMO.