Bosma Murder Trial 02.03.16 - Day 3

[MsSherlock]

I find it a little confusing following so many different reporters who can only give 140 characters worth of info at a time, I am finding that most focus on exactly the same things and so must be not really listening to what is happening while they are typing, and I sometimes think I may have missed something.

Here, for example, I am also sure that I read both that the witness said that the phone came on and started pinging, and also that she also said it was plugged in and started pinging when turned on according to different reporters. I think I even remember reading that he was questioned by the defence in whether or not it needed to be charged and I believe that she said that she couldn't remember. Then I also recall reading that she didn't initially know how to turn it on as she does not have a Samsung phone, so I think if she did charge it, she must have had a charger in common.

I want to think that if she cleaned off the phone that she would have noticed any blood among the dirt and bird poop, or that the cop who visited her dug the thing she used to clean it with out of the trash to check for DNA. I also like to think that the phone was thoroughly searched by forensics in every crack and crevice that would not be removed by an ordinary cleaning. Maybe that will be introduced later? Or maybe the phone managed to stay clean, which I would find hard to believe whether it was kept in a shirt pocket or jeans pocket. Do we know which pocket he tended to keep his phone in?

Maybe it was grabbed out of TB's hands the minute the ride started? Maybe that's why DM was driving strange? Maybe it was grabbed and put into the "satchel" and maybe there wasn't one drop of anything on it? To clarify- a guy was cutting the grass and saw it laying near the fence. He picked it up and turned it into the supervisor at the Company where he was cutting the grass. It was dead so she plugged it in and it started to ping with messages.(most cell phone chargers are universal) She hit the "home" button and TB's sister answered. She was told it belonged to a missing man and a call went to 911. LE came and took the phone. IMHO, HPS wouldn't have missed the opportunity to conduct thorough forensics on that phone- wouldn't that just be the normal thing LE would do? MOO

 

[Kamille]

LE went to question DM at the hangar:



http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/2016/02/dispatches-from-the-tim-bosma-murder-trial-day-three.html

He did not give Maple Gate as his address. Probably more to hide at Maple Gate than at the farm?

Bingo. A roommate with information? Did he ever make it back there or was he arrested on the way home?

MOO

 

[SnooperDuper]

Well there are limits to what real life forensics can achieve

Identification officers also inspected Igor’s truck but couldn’t get fingerprint impressions. They attempted to lift a footwear impression on the rear driver’s side.

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/2016/02/dispatches-from-the-tim-bosma-murder-trial-day-three.html

...and nothing on the phone that's meaningful, as it had been wiped down (well, you can expect, if there was bird crap on it) and handled by at least a couple people after it was found, besides.

 

[Juballee]

Exactly my thoughts! Must be some good stuff!

I wonder if he wanted to be caught? In some demented way, maybe he felt it would put him in the spotlight..make him a "star". That he would be admired for his actions? And this court room is his stage..literally. Had life been too normal for him lately. A truly serious cry for attention?? I mean really...waving at the detective like they were long lost buddies who just reconnected. He truly does have a deep sense of himself.

Maybe it wasn't a demented or self destructive urge to get caught, but maybe he did want to get caught because he had no way to tell LE what happened directly without fear of a reprisal from MS, who made him an unwitting accessory? It would match a lot of the facts that don't fully make sense, like why he would leave all the evidence on his own property (someone coercing you would want you to have as much pointing at you as possible, and nothing painting at them), it would explain why he didn't try to destroy the PVR, it would explain leaving the phone intact in an area that was not as secluded as much of their journey, and it would explain giving the cops his farm address and expecting them. It could also explain why he was so friendly and inconspicuous to Tim and why he continues to be openly friendly in court. It might explain RP's line of questioning as well.

Just a speculation.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Maybe it wasn't a demented or self destructive urge to get caught, but maybe he did want to get caught because he had no way to tell LE what happened directly without fear of a reprisal from MS, who made him an unwitting accessory? It would match a lot of the facts that don't fully make sense, like why he would leave all the evidence on his own property (someone coercing you would want you to have as much pointing at you as possible, and nothing painting at them), it would explain why he didn't try to destroy the PVR, it would explain leaving the phone intact in an area that was not as secluded as much of their journey, and it would explain giving the cops his farm address and expecting them. It could also explain why he was so friendly and inconspicuous to Tim and why he continues to be openly friendly in court. It might explain RP's line of questioning as well.

Just a speculation.

Or maybe he was just stupid. MOO.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Given the societal repugnance of the Homolka case, I can't ever see the Crown giving any suspect a relative walk in the case of a Homicide of this notoriety, in this province, ever again.

At the time, no one would have ever imagined it could have happened. And yet, it did. Canadian (Ontario - specific) society is no different now. It *could* happen again.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Bingo. A roommate with information? Did he ever make it back there or was he arrested on the way home?

MOO

I don't think he made it back there based on the Star article...he was at the hangar for a bit longer and then he headed home. Got stung with TB's keys in his car.

 

[canadiangirl]

I don't believe a whole jury would be so shallow as to believe someone smiling was cocky.
Someone who has never been in such an environment before and who seems to have been a friendly trusting type of guy, would not necessarily know that he wasn't expected to smile or to raise his hand when someone was pointing at him and trying to identify him. Rather than try to demean someone based on a smile I choose to recognize that not everyone realizes that political correctness is now like law in most situations. If I were on trial for something and I felt I was innocent, I would definitely smile at my family and friends and if someone was trying to point me out and had said my name, who's to say whether or not I would feel that I had to identify myself.

I honestly have not detected anything cocky so far about DM, and I am not someone who tolerates arrogance and narcissistic personalities well. ALL MOO

Except he has no friends or family in court, so who's he smiling at? Says a lot don't you think?
Even if I felt I was innocent, I wouldn't be waving at police or raising my hand like a 6 yr old. It's a court of law, not a classroom. Even if he's never been inside one, surely his legal council has spoken to him how to conduct himself appropriately.
I'm also sure he's watched a courtroom drama or 2. After all, he knew how to buy a burner phone and lie about his name.

 

[Juballee]

I wonder why they decided to shoot Tim in the truck, knowing the cleanup work they'd have to do. Could this go back to the thing where there was speculation that DM only cared about the engine? I don't remember the details. But maybe they really were going to completely chop it for parts and the interior didn't matter to them.

Or maybe the person who shot him in the truck and the person who had an interest in the truck were two different people with two different ideas of why they were out that night?

 

[SnooperDuper]

In all honesty Tamarind, I don't think posters are jumping to conclusions here at all. IMHO, the majority of people will never find themselves in a Court of Law on such serious charges, so it's really hard to say how we'd react, but I think I'm safe to say that the majority of people know that it's not a social gathering and wouldn't be cracking a smile or gesturing to witnesses in the presence of a Judge and Jury unless it was initiated by the Judge- not even in traffic or small claims court. I would have hoped that RP had prepared DM better- seems like MS has gotten the memo. MOO

After having DM's pink shirts and pink hair flashed at me so many times, I decided the guy was going to be a real performer in court. Center of attention.

You can see how DM's outgoing gregarious friendly nature would endear him to many people. I mean, outside of a courtroom where there's a first-degree murder trial going on.

I wonder if Plan B is to charm some woman on the jury into creating a mistrial? Not that that will help him any: he can't get out of jail.

I think DM has just decided to go down with style. He's caught. He's done. I think after CN was arrested and he got really really skinny...he knew he was down for the count.

 

[Juballee]

I think some of the reporting gets confused. In other reports it seems DM called someone at 9:02 pm and that call pinged off a cell tower in Ancaster, revealing his physical location. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...id-police-zero-in-on-dellen-millard-1.3431969

I find it very interesting that police 'sources' were able to quickly id DM as having the tattoo. So a) he was know to those who move in shady circles, and b) was up to something in Peel. He certainly travelled around a lot.

I believe police sources might include the database of information gleaning from carding, which is originally how they say that they came up with DM's name in relation to the tattoo.

 

[MsSherlock]

Or maybe the person who shot him in the truck and the person who had an interest in the truck were two different people with two different ideas of why they were out that night?

I would not be the least bit surprised to hear this as MS's defense- the fact that he was just going with DM to steal a truck. MOO

 

[canadiangirl]

I would not be the least bit surprised to hear this as MS's defense- the fact that he was just going with DM to steal a truck. MOO

Then I'd like to hear what he was doing with DM and LB. Can't use the truck for that one

 

[Juballee]

Not caught up yet (again) but wanted to address this. It doesn't ring probable at all that someone would swipe a screen and accidentally open an app, in an effort to turn off a phone. My reasoning for this is simple: Samsung phone screens time-out after a certain period of time. The default is like 30 seconds or something where the screen turns black. You can go into settings and change that so the screen stays live for longer, but I think the longest you can set it, is 30 minutes. From everyone I know, most people set theirs somewhere from a minute to 5 minutes.

Not to mention, cell phone power buttons are almost always on the SIDE of the phone (if not always?). You don't need to access your screen to turn the phone off. What seems far more probable to me (and I could be totally wrong) is that one of these guys used his phone to access something - then the other one possibly said "turn that off!". So off it went, a minute later. And by the way, a minute is a long time. Pick up your phone, swipe the screen and hit an app - any app. Then start timing yourself from the second the app opens. I just did it myself and it's really a lot longer than you might think, to sit there with an app open.

Would they have also have erased the browser history? Completely? I think that if they had been looking something up, LE could have tracked down the webpage in their browser, or may have mentioned that the browser history had been cleared, that would have been informative and would help cast suspicion on them.

My opinion only.

 

[Juballee]

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/30/stolen-harley-found-on-property-of-accused-tim-bosma-killer

He was definitely moving in shady circles .. one of the stolen items found in the hanger was a HD and trailer, from Toronto. It might not have been himself that stole it, but could have been a thief who fenced it on to him. Or, someone in the know (MS) may have enabled the boost for DM. He certainly already had a truck to get the trailer from TO to Hespeler.

Bike theft in Toronto is an ongoing issue... theft rings get busted, now and then. Intelligence could have well originated from such a source.

JMO, and just sayin'.

Something makes me think that if there were other stolen vehicles in DM's possession, whether one or a chop shop full, if they could be attributed to him, it would have been mentioned in the opening statement to give him some kind of a motive.

Was there a motive at all presented in the opening statement?

 

[Juballee]

I had the exact same thought when I read the tweets from court about the way the questions were being asked. If Millard assumed they (LE) had a search warrant for the property, he would have immediately grabbed that murse and put it on his person. Yes, I called it a murse because that's exactly what it is. And, given Millard's known history, there was SOMETHING in it, he most definitely did not want LE to see.

IF LE came to your door with a search warrant, they wouldn't allow you to leave with a box that you may have just gathered up all the evidence into. Same with a satchel, so I doubt that is why he grabbed his bag. Also, they asked to look around, they did not present a warrant to search, so if he knew his rights he was showing that he allowed the search. If he had drugs to hide, he could have told the cops no, come back with a warrant, and then taken the drugs to the bathroom and flushed them when they left.

And finally, why would he draw attention to his bag if he was using it to hide something? His lawyer asked specifically if the officers saw him grab his bag and sling it over his shoulder. I bet they are not just asking stupid questions to kill time because they are paid by the hour

 

[Juballee]

In all honesty Tamarind, I don't think posters are jumping to conclusions here at all. IMHO, the majority of people will never find themselves in a Court of Law on such serious charges, so it's really hard to say how we'd react, but I think I'm safe to say that the majority of people know that it's not a social gathering and wouldn't be cracking a smile or gesturing to witnesses in the presence of a Judge and Jury unless it was initiated by the Judge- not even in traffic or small claims court. I would have hoped that RP had prepared DM better- seems like MS has gotten the memo. MOO

I think the overly friendly gestures might be a symptom of being locked in solitary confinement for two and a half years. If someone who was naturally friendly and social got locked up alone for an extended period of time, the social centres of their brains might be overloaded with stimuli when they are faced with a large crowd and intense attention. Like a dog that has been released from an extended period in a cage may be especially rambunctious for a time upon being freed. The behaviour may be involuntary, and may correct over time as he re-adjusts. MS has had far more stimulation and human contact, not to mention experience in court, so he wouldn't exhibit the same anxiety.

And wouldn't it be ironic if he was convicted only to gain an appeal because it deemed he was judged harshly for smiling inappropriately?

Personally, I don't think MS got any memo, I just think he is exhibiting the same behaviour Sharlene and the tenant described. Come to think of it so is DM. Doesn't their behaviour just bolster Sharlene's testimony?

All my opinion only.

 

[Juballee]

LE went to question DM at the hangar:



http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/2016/02/dispatches-from-the-tim-bosma-murder-trial-day-three.html

He did not give Maple Gate as his address. Probably more to hide at Maple Gate than at the farm?

I don't remember hearing of any significant evidence being found at Maple Gate, am I forgetting some? If he wanted to send LE in a wild goose chase, why not give the address of one of his condos? I wonder what address is on his driver's licence, I would imagine that LE would have already had that address before they arrived, I wonder why they asked for his address at all, and again, why he would send them to the place with the human remains? Did he want the remains found?

 

[Juballee]

Maybe it was grabbed out of TB's hands the minute the ride started? Maybe that's why DM was driving strange? Maybe it was grabbed and put into the "satchel" and maybe there wasn't one drop of anything on it? To clarify- a guy was cutting the grass and saw it laying near the fence. He picked it up and turned it into the supervisor at the Company where he was cutting the grass. It was dead so she plugged it in and it started to ping with messages.(most cell phone chargers are universal) She hit the "home" button and TB's sister answered. She was told it belonged to a missing man and a call went to 911. LE came and took the phone. IMHO, HPS wouldn't have missed the opportunity to conduct thorough forensics on that phone- wouldn't that just be the normal thing LE would do? MOO

That is a good point, but I still doubt anyone would start an attack within shouting distance of the home when he just saw witnesses there and there was plenty of time to make some distance. The strange driving was only reported being seen at the end of the driveway.

And as I recall, it was MS wearing a backpack that was an uncertainty, and the tenant was certain DM was not wearing his man purse.

Lets hope the forensic experts give a report on the phone, even if it found nothing.

 

[Sillybilly]

And as I recall, it was MS wearing a backpack that was an uncertainty, and the tenant was certain DM was not wearing his man purse.

<rsbm>

To clarify:

from:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Trial-02-02-16-Day-2&p=12328000#post12328000

Dungey says that De Boer can’t say if tall guy had a satchel or anything, and can’t say why other man with the hoodie was dressed as he was – he might have been ill or something, Dungey says.
by Adam Carter 1:42 PM

<bbm>