Bosma Murder Trial 02.10.16 - Day 7

[JuneBug67]

So the only two phones that are either dismantled or discarded belong to MS and TB. DM obviously saw no reason to dismantle or discard his phone.

My current working theory is that Millard is sociopathic. I'm open to changing my mind. In the meantime I'll note that sociopaths often don't feel fear in the same way 'normal' people do. This would be consistent with that: Millard cool as a cuke and Smich in panic mode.

 

[Sleepy Villager]

thanks for the explanation!

 

[Wollander77]

So the only two phones that are either dismantled or discarded belong to MS and TB. DM obviously saw no reason to dismantle or discard his phone.

...Of course not? That is, if I read your observation correctly. DM turned off his phone just prior to his meeting with TB, so he probably thought he was in the clear. I was actually wondering what MS was doing at this time, so it's nice to receive confirmation that he did dismantle / disable / turn off his phone at around 9:20 pm. I don't believe either DM or MS discarded their phones. The only phone that's confirmed to have been dumped was TB's, I think.

 

[Tamarind]

My current working theory is that Millard is sociopathic. I'm open to changing my mind. In the meantime I'll note that sociopaths often don't feel fear in the same way 'normal' people do. This would be consistent with that: Millard cool as a cuke and Smich in panic mode.

No medical/psychological evidence in yet to support that theory but everyones opinion is valid. I haven't seen evidence showing MS in panic mode either, more of a shady, hide my face type of guy. But thats just my opinion.

 

[MsSherlock]

I'm surprised no one asked the officer who hit the box if anyone checked to see if the seals were still intact after spending 21 hours at the transport company, before hitting the road the second time to Tilsonburg.

Juballee- I'm no expert in securing evidence, but IMHO, if there was any problem whatsoever with the admissibility or integrity of the trailer evidence, or if there was any question about LE's handling of the trailer, I somehow feel that one of the extremely talented and experienced defence teams would have brought that up on cross examination.

LE obviously have protocol that they follow and the defence did not question anything that Gibson did. They did not question the security at the compound. And, IMO, the officer escorting the trailer did the right thing when the doors swung open. She kept with the important evidence-the truck and trailer. And not only did she keep with the truck, she hit the box (remembering what the box looked like) and must have really put the pedal to the metal and got the tow truck pulled over 2 km up the road. At 110 km hr, 1 minute would cover 1.8 km. It must have seemed like forever for her, but in actuality it wasn't a significant period of time- 70 seconds? And then- she SECURED the trailer again and followed it to it's destination. If anything, the incident was a blow for the Crown because they have absolutely no idea what "could" have been in the box that fell out.

I know that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but IMHO, it seems counterproductive and distracting to continually cast doubt on evidence that has been clearly admissible to the Courts and acceptable by both the Crown and Defence. MOO

 

[Tamarind]

...Of course not? That is, if I read your observation correctly. DM turned off his phone just prior to his meeting with TB, so he probably thought he was in the clear. I was actually wondering what MS was doing at this time, so it's nice to receive confirmation that he did dismantle / disable / turn off his phone at around 9:20 pm. I don't believe either DM or MS discarded their phones. The only phone that's confirmed to have been dumped was TB's, I think.

I said dismantled or discarded ! I didnt see that DM turned off his phoned. It was still active from what I have read.

 

[NashBridges2]

Well we know they are going to continue with this cell phone slide show in the morning. Not one reporter with the exception of Adam Carter even tried to decipher what was being said because they didn't have a hard copy to follow along. I wonder if they will be getting one?

I have a close friend who was in the gallery today, we are only getting quick tidbits from Twitter. She says it's completely different in there, much easier to understand and follow.

 

[NashBridges2]

I said dismantled or discarded ! I didnt see that DM turned off his phoned. It was still active from what I have read.

You might want to go back and read. DM had his phone turned off as well.

 

[Wollander77]

I said dismantled or discarded ! I didnt see that DM turned off his phoned. It was still active from what I have read.

I got the Bate phone, which last made contact with TB at 9:04 pm, mixed up with DM's phone. Just before court adjourned today, Adam Carter mentioned DM's phone pinging off a tower west of TB's house at 9:44 pm. It could be DM turned off his phone soon after the abduction, only to turn it on again, but the Crown will hopefully shed more light on available phone records tomorrow.

 

[canadiangirl]

Oh sure...make public all the records for the victim but nothing for the accused. LOL

That is so sad to see the last entries. :cry:

MOO

Can you say what you read? For some reason the affidavit is now deleted?

 

[MsSherlock]

No medical/psychological evidence in yet to support that theory but everyones opinion is valid. I haven't seen evidence showing MS in panic mode either, more of a shady, hide my face type of guy. But thats just my opinion.

IMHO, at this point does it really matter who's the shady, hide my face druggy guy and who's the confident, nothing to hide guy? As of today, IMO, it's clear that they were in heavy communication around the test drives and TB's disappearance and murder. They did this together- they're being tried together. IMO, they're both responsible for the events of that night.

If DM, the one time CEO of Millardair, the young man with affluence and opportunities, had even ONE WORKING BRAIN CELL in his head HE WOULD HAVE KNOWN that stealing trucks and killing people were criminal offences. If MS had ONE WORKING BRAIN CELL he would have known the same thing and TB would still be alive. But neither of them did-TB is dead and both DM & MS will probably have a lot of time in the big house getting it all figured out. MOO

 

[Sillybilly]

So the only two phones that are either dismantled or discarded belong to MS and TB. DM obviously saw no reason to dismantle or discard his phone.

The original poster used the term "disabled". From ABro's summary of the Crown's opening statements:

Also , cell phone records of both accused show them travelling from the Greater Toronto Area, through Oakville, to just outside the home of Tim Bosma on May 6, 2013. Both of their cell phones pinged off cell towers in close proximity to the Bosma home, immediately before Tim Bosma met the two accused. These phones were turned off immediately after the abduction, a short distance outside the area of the Bosma home, while Tim Bosma was in the truck with Mr. Millard and Mr. Smich.

<bbm>

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/2016/02/tim-bosma-trial-the-crowns-opening-statement.html


ETA:

Peter Akman &#8207;@PeterAkmanCTV 3m3 minutes ago
Crown - both cellphones of #DellenMillard and #marksmich tracked towards #TimBosma's home. Both turned off at same time. @CTVNews

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-1-Opening-Statements&p=12325151#post12325151

At the time, you appeared to acknowledge same:

All phones turned off at same time !

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-1-Opening-Statements&p=12325769#post12325769

 

[Kamille]

...Of course not? That is, if I read your observation correctly. DM turned off his phone just prior to his meeting with TB, so he probably thought he was in the clear. I was actually wondering what MS was doing at this time, so it's nice to receive confirmation that he did dismantle / disable / turn off his phone at around 9:20 pm. I don't believe either DM or MS discarded their phones. The only phone that's confirmed to have been dumped was TB's, I think.

Just jumping off your post....

You are correct that the cell information today indicated that the MS phone stopped transmitting at 9:20pm on May 6th, close to the Bosma residence. The expert indicated that a phone will stop transmitting if it's shut down, the battery is removed or the sim card is removed. They did not confirm how MS's phone stopped transmitting because they couldn't possibly know. I have no idea what kind of phone MS uses but the battery and sim card option would not be available to someone with an Iphone. MS's phone also received a flood of 21 texts at 9:18am on the 7th which is consistent with someone turning their phone back on so I think it's safe to assume that he did not discard the phone. I also think it's reasonable to assume that MS shut his phone off at 9:20pm on the 6th and turned it back on at 9:18am on the 7th. So I wonder what happened at 9:20pm that made him think he should do this? Or was it because his girlfriend kept texting him and he didn't want to deal with it?

Susan Clairmont &#8207;@susanclairmont 10h10 hours ago
Many texts in those critical hours of #Bosma test drive between Smich and girlfriend Meneses.

What I find interesting about this is the fact that if MS knew enough about cell phone tracking to shut down his phone at 9:20pm, because at that point he did not want to be traced, he apparently didn't have an issue with it prior to 9:20pm on his way to the test drive. Now obviously DM either didn't know about the possibility of cell tracking or didn't think or care about it while he was heading to his farm to pick up an incinerator to cremate TB's body and then back to his hangar to ignite it and store the stolen truck. Which leads me to believe that he was not in the same vehicle with MS to be given this piece of sage advice as I'm sure MS would have preferred that he did shut off his phone as well, if in fact that's why MS shut off his.

So my question is. If you are out buying a truck and the guy you took with you just up and shoots and kills the owner of said truck while you are out on a test drive, and jumps into your vehicle so that you are now in separate vehicles, why don't you drive immediately to a police station or maybe just stay where you are and call 911 with your still turned on and obviously working phone and tell them what happened? Why do you drive away with a dead body and start coming up with a plan to incinerate the person and keep their truck?

I say the same thing about MS. If he was along for the ride on a legit truck purchase or even a known plan to steal a truck and DM shot and killed the owner, why didn't he do the same to lessen his culpability to maybe attempted robbery? I suppose each will say the other did it and that they were threatened to help cover up. So for that reason I find them both equally guilty and I don't really care which one shot the gun. Neither does the criminal code in the case of premeditated forcible confinement, which I believe is the case here because I believe they both set out to steal a truck by confining the owner during a test drive while they were picking up the vehicle they arrived in.

MOO

 

[swedie]

So how about the other evidence presented today about DM's left ring finger fingerprint on the door handle? Wouldn't you think that his and MS's and TB's should be all over the vehicle? So why are we just getting evidence of a couple of DM prints lifted from areas that someone might not think to wipe down? Or that got missed in a wipe down?

Or are we going to hear evidence of a bunch of other fingerprints found on the vehicle? Did SS ever touch it while it was in the hangar?

MOO

We do know TB had washed and shined his truck all up, hoping to make a great impression on the potential buyer. Being as it was black, one tends to see every little mark or flaw, especially if they are nicely polished as Tim's appeared to be. He seemed to have taken a lot of pride in that truck.

So your question, my opinion. I think forensics found more fingerprints or the perps DNA on or inside the truck, just not sure where. Did DM open the hood? Perhaps he left prints on the latch found inside the truck or the one under the hood.

Added: Alex made an error in her comments. She spoke as if the trailer containing Tim's truck was the trailer AJ was building in the hangar.

Listen to Alex P telling Scott about Thursday's court proceedings TalkRadio640.
http://www.640toronto.com/syn/66/61...-of-trailer-arriving-at-millards-mothers-home

 

[Kamille]

Can you say what you read? For some reason the affidavit is now deleted?

Just the last phone contact with his phone, knowing he was not in possession of it and was likely already deceased.

 

[swedie]

I actually just heard the answer to that question today from a Legal Expert talking on the radio about the JG trial in Toronto. In Canada, the accused is always presumed innocent and it's 100% up to the Crown to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. In doing so, they must disclose to the accused the evidence they have against them so the accused can defend the allegations. It is not up to the defence to prove their innocence thus it's not necessary for them to disclose the holes or inaccuracies in the Crowns evidence. I think I got that straight and hope it helps!

MsSherlock do you or anyone else know; if the defense has evidence or disclosure, do they have to share that with the Crown? I realize it's up to the Crown to prove their case BUT let's say...I'll give you a couple examples; the defense discovers a unclear, grainy video showing who the defense claims is the accused somewhere, nowhere near the crime scene at the time of the crime, or someone's testimony giving the accused an alibi, do they have to share that information prior to trial? TIA and MOO.

 

[Sillybilly]

MsSherlock do you or anyone else know; if the defense has evidence or disclosure, do they have to share that with the Crown? I realize it's up to the Crown to prove their case BUT let's say...I'll give you an example; the defense discovers a video showing the accused somewhere, nowhere near the crime scene at the time of the crime, do they have to share that information prior to trial? TIA and MOO.

It is my understanding that an alibi defence must be submitted to police to allow time for proper investigation by them. Lots to read, but just a couple of snippets from Cleghorn:

From the SCC case of R. v Cleghorn (Iobucci, J. referencing R. v Letourneau, Cummings, J.A.):

https://webcache.googleusercontent..../item/1289/index.do+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

It is settled law that disclosure of a defence of alibi should meet two requirements:

(a)it should be given in sufficient time to permit the authorities to investigate: see R. v. Mahoney, supra, at p. 387, and R. v. Dunbar and Logan (1982), 68 C.C.C. (2d) 13 at pp. 62-3 ... (Ont. C.A.);

(b)it should be given with sufficient particularity to enable the authorities to meaningfully investigate: see R. v. Ford (1993), 78 C.C.C. (3d) 481 at pp. 504-5 ... (B.C.C.A.).

Failure to give notice of alibi does not vitiate the defence, although it may result in a lessening of the weight that the trier of fact will accord it ....

and ...

However, improper disclosure can only weaken alibi evidence; it cannot exclude the alibi.

<bbm>

 

[Sillybilly]

BTW, in the above case, the appeal was allowed.

From "Principles of an "alibi" defence" by Ottawa criminal defence lawyer, Brett McGarry:
https://www.mcgarrylaw.ca/principles-alibi-defence/

Two other points concerning alibis are important. First, if an alibi defence is advanced, the defence must notify the prosecution far enough in advance to allow for the proper investigation of the alibi. If the defence does not notify the prosecution in advance, then the judge or jury may draw an adverse inference. This is one of the rare instances where the defence must disclose material in advance to the Crown

 

[Sillybilly]

More reading wrt alibi defence:

R. v. Hamilton, 2011 ONCA 399
http://caselaw.canada.globe24h.com/...o/2011/05/24/r-v-hamilton-2011-onca-399.shtml

In this case, appeal dismissed.

 

[JuneBug67]

No medical/psychological evidence in yet to support that theory but everyones opinion is valid. I haven't seen evidence showing MS in panic mode either, more of a shady, hide my face type of guy. But thats just my opinion.

I chose the word panic somewhat loosely. Thus far Smich is the one who seems to have the more normal courtroom behaviour given he is being tried for murder. The behaviours are consistent with his circumstances. Fear of detection would be a normal response after killing a man, so we may be able to hypothesize Smich experienced this and acted accordingly. I agree that the evidence suggests he's shady and deliberately criminal.

We aren't likely to hear medical or psychological evidence on Milard in the Crown's case. For me it's the trail of bodies, the relaxed charm and the impression that he believes he can talk and smile his way out of this murder, and the emotionally 'off' courtroom behaviour. It's the gruesome bloody eye avatar given the manner of his father's death, the need for a personal incinerator and the apparent embrace of a fast life of stolen vehicles and criminality and setting his own hours over trying to make something of the business he inherited. It's like Paul Bernardo making a living smuggling cigarettes with his accounting degree. These types are too impulsive and thrill seeking for traditional adult responsibilities.