Bosma Murder Trial 02.10.16 - Day 7

[Ontario Mom]

Why would we think that someone who had their hands in their pockets was wearing gloves? In May? Wouldn't TB have noticed this when they were all getting into the truck? He and MS got in on the same side.

I still think the truck got a thorough cleaning and wipedown before being put in that trailer. How else do we explain the lack of substantial amounts of blood (and perhaps DNA from the accused) in it?

MOO

Well, because he already had a criminal record and he knew they were going to steal it, and he didn't want his prints found on it - and - he didn't want anyone to see that he was wearing gloves? Of course I'm speculating 100%. They certainly could have washed/wiped it down after the fact but then you'd think if they did, they'd pay special attention to the driver's side door, right?

I can't explain anything about the blood/DNA inside the truck because I don't think it's ever been disclosed how much was actually found. Was there a lot? Drops? I don't know. We know there was enough to get evidence, but I don't remember if it's ever been said how much was actually there. Nor do I know a.) where Tim was shot or b.) if the caliber of ammo used to shoot him creates a small enough entry/exit wound that there might not be a lot of blood. I know you bleed more if wounded in certain areas than others.

I suppose a lot of our questions about these things (if not all of them?) will be answered in the coming days/weeks as the Crown presents their evidence.

 

[Kamille]

The last 2 entries at 22:01:05 and 22:01:06 noted as 777 appear to be messages being deleted

They have deleted that affidavit already. I guess they weren't supposed to print it? Or they did it out of respect for SB?

Anyway when I saw it I didn't notice that. I thought they were both under "browser"? I wish we could look at it again.

MOO

 

[Somegirl]

A refresher. This does not look like a professional door lock system to me.

This picture shows what looks like a cheap "school locker" type lock that DM likely put on the back when leaving the hanger. All LE did was put the sticker seal on the doors so if someone opened it, the seal would be broken and you'd know it was tampered with. The pressure of the heavy doors bouncing around on an already long trip from Kleinberg to Hamilton likely caused the cheap lock to finally snap, and the doors flew open. MOO

*Ok - so I've read now that the lock wasn't broken.

 

[Kamille]

I am starting to think that the Employee that DM asked CN (through a letter from jail) to get to change his statement was AJ - he was the only one who could say that he actually saw a vehicle the same as TB's vehicle in the hangar. MS had been given the gun to dispose of, CN had been given the video tape from the hangar, and the vehicle was hidden before LE arrived. AJ was the only weak link that could confirm he saw it with his own eyes. Perhaps DM thought he could (through CN) convince AJ to say that he saw a black truck but that he couldn't be 100 percent certain it was the same make and model as TB's - creating some reasonable doubt. DM likely didn't know that AJ took pictures of it and the VIN number and had provided this to the police. MO

Well in the opening statement it said it was someone he considered a friend. Not sure if he would have considered AJ a friend after he fired him?

I think there were other friends who gave statements to LE that might fall into that category as well.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

This picture shows what looks like a cheap "school locker" type lock that DM likely put on the back when leaving the hanger. All LE did was put the sticker seal on the doors so if someone opened it, the seal would be broken and you'd know it was tampered with. The pressure of the heavy doors bouncing around on an already long trip from Kleinberg to Hamilton likely caused the cheap lock to finally snap, and the doors flew open. MOO

The lock belonged to the Officer who put the seal on. DM did not have a lock on the back door when he parked the trailer and the other side door lock was cut off.

There are a few articles in the media thread that have information about the trailer and the lock.

 

[Kamille]

Well, because he already had a criminal record and he knew they were going to steal it, and he didn't want his prints found on it - and - he didn't want anyone to see that he was wearing gloves? Of course I'm speculating 100%. They certainly could have washed/wiped it down after the fact but then you'd think if they did, they'd pay special attention to the driver's side door, right?

I can't explain anything about the blood/DNA inside the truck because I don't think it's ever been disclosed how much was actually found. Was there a lot? Drops? I don't know. We know there was enough to get evidence, but I don't remember if it's ever been said how much was actually there. Nor do I know a.) where Tim was shot or b.) if the caliber of ammo used to shoot him creates a small enough entry/exit wound that there might not be a lot of blood. I know you bleed more if wounded in certain areas than others.

I suppose a lot of our questions about these things (if not all of them?) will be answered in the coming days/weeks as the Crown presents their evidence.

I see what you're saying about the fingerprints but if you're stealing the truck and plan to keep it, I can't see how you'd care if your fingerprints were on it. However, after finding out that one of your employees has called it in to crimestoppers and you have to ditch it, well then I can see how you might want to wipe it clean of fingerprints IYKWIM.

MOO

 

[Sillybilly]

Thanks sillybilly

They do have to disclose any witnesses or experts that they intend to call though don't they?

Yes, but I think that is just SOP in developing witness lists and doubt that it is part of disclosure rules.

On another note, unrelated to your questions, under the duty of disclosure on the Crown, they are also required to disclose both inculpatory or exculpatory information. IOW, if they have information that is beneficial to either of the accused in this case, they have to provide it to the defence.

Sorry for a quickie-Wiki:
https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Canadian_Criminal_Procedure_and_Practice/Disclosure#cite_note-23

The Crown must disclose all materials information that is in its possession or control that is not clearly irrelevant, regardless of if the evidence is to be called at trial or is inculpatory or exculpatory.[1]

IOW, if the Crown is aware of some conspiracy against either of the accused in this case, it would be incumbent upon them to disclose such to the defence.

 

[Sillybilly]

They have deleted that affidavit already. I guess they weren't supposed to print it? Or they did it out of respect for SB?

Anyway when I saw it I didn't notice that. I thought they were both under "browser"? I wish we could look at it again.

MOO

Hmm, maybe I'm wrong about 777 indicating messages being deleted. I hadn't noticed it before, but at the end of her report, McIlveen's affidavit includes a notation that "event billing code (ie 777=data)"

 

[Juballee]

Adam Carter
Feb 10 2016 10:22 AM
It got back to Hamilton by 9:06 p.m. It was towed to metro transport - a metro purchasing, detailing and cleaning facility, Gibson says.

RSBM

Adam CarterVerified account ‏@AdamCarterCBC 3m3 minutes ago
Gibson is done. Next witness is Laura Trowbridge from Hamilton police. She was asked to follow the trailer at one point. #HamOnt #TimBosma

Shannon Martin ‏@ShannonMartinTV 53s54 seconds ago Hamilton, Ontario
Trowbridge says doors opened up at 6;33pm, heavy traffic #MillardSmich #Bosma

RSBM

Forgive me if this has already been brought up, but is there a discrepancy in the times stated by the different officers or did the evidence sit at Metro transport for about 21 hours?

 

[Juballee]

The trailer was built in a hurry. I guess it had some defects.

I don't think that was a homemade trailer, it seemed to have made it to Mexico and back with the doors intact.

My question is, were there no hills between Klienburg and Hamilton? Why didn't the door open before?

Again, forgive me if this has already been answered, I am far, far behind tonight, but did the first officer in charge of moving the truck and trailer to Hamilton specify that he padlocked the rear doors and that they were secure before his leg of the trek?

 

[Tamarind]

...this is chiiling to me, MOO appears the co-accused hiding the Yukon at 8:44 at Trinity and Book, and my guess is MS is alone (one in each vehicle) when he has a quick second to disable his phone at 9:20 (sim/battery removal) one would assume DM would do the same with his personal cell if he saw MS doing it.....all MOO

So the only two phones that are either dismantled or discarded belong to MS and TB. DM obviously saw no reason to dismantle or discard his phone.

 

[MsSherlock]

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 4m4 minutes ago
May 4. Millard communicating with people called Spaford & Wishbone. Also Bate phone (with links to Millard) communicates with #Bosma phone.


The ex-fiancee?

Just catching up on the forum for today and all I can say is "wow". I'll say it again "wow". MOO

 

[Juballee]

Thanks for clearing that up. LE did seal the back of the trailer.

I'm surprised no one asked the officer who hit the box if anyone checked to see if the seals were still intact after spending 21 hours at the transport company, before hitting the road the second time to Tilsonburg.

 

[bmuzz]

Long time lurker here... Don't have much to add, but just want to thank all of you who continue to keep us update with tweets, photos and links. This case has weighed heavy on my mind since TB first went missing and I'm glad we are slowly getting answers.

 

[Tamarind]

I don't think that was a homemade trailer, it seemed to have made it to Mexico and back with the doors intact.

My question is, were there no hills between Klienburg and Hamilton? Why didn't the door open before?

Again, forgive me if this has already been answered, I am far, far behind tonight, but did the first officer in charge of moving the truck and trailer to Hamilton specify that he padlocked the rear doors and that they were secure before his leg of the trek?

Yes he said he locked and sealed the trailer and that the seals had his signature on them. The trailer doors didn't fly open during the almost hour drive to Hamilton.

 

[Tamarind]

Forgive me if this has already been brought up, but is there a discrepancy in the times stated by the different officers or did the evidence sit at Metro transport for about 21 hours?

Yes it sat in Hamilton for almost a full day including overnight. :censored:

 

[Tamarind]

I'm surprised no one asked the officer who hit the box if anyone checked to see if the seals were still intact after spending 21 hours at the transport company, before hitting the road the second time to Tilsonburg.

If nothing else there is a security issue, IMO. I guess if the seals were not intact for whatever reason, it didn't matter after the doors flew open as the seals would appear to break at that point anyway. IYKWIM.

 

[Ontario Mom]

So the only two phones that are either dismantled or discarded belong to MS and TB. DM obviously saw no reason to dismantle or discard his phone.

Maybe... just maybe, his over-inflated arrogance completely blinded him to the idea that he may actually get caught, for what he'd done. It certainly wouldn't be the first time some cocky criminal thought they were above the law. Although, that's assuming he actually did still have his own phone on him at the time of arrest. We don't know yet, if he did or not. As far as I know, anyway.

 

[Tamarind]

Maybe... just maybe, his over-inflated arrogance completely blinded him to the idea that he may actually get caught, for what he'd done. It certainly wouldn't be the first time some cocky criminal thought they were above the law. Although, that's assuming he actually did still have his own phone on him at the time of arrest. We don't know yet, if he did or not. As far as I know, anyway.

Anythings possible but I don't share that opinion. I guess the coming days/weeks will bring more to ponder... one way or another.

 

[MsSherlock]

The jury has spent a good part of the first 7 days of this trial hearing from cell experts explaining pings and towers etc. And according to the article below, they can expect more.

Right now they are still in the process of going over a power point presentation by Phillip Wilkinson, an operational intelligence analyst with the OPP.

His job is to take that complicated data from the service providers and create a phone activity presentation that can be used in court cases like this one. He must present the evidence in a way jurors and judges can understand.

For this trial, it took him 60 hours of work. He was on the stand for more than an hour already, under the examination of assistant Crown attorney Craig Fraser, and will return Thursday. He is using PowerPoint to show the jury all the activity between those key phones from May 3 to May 10. We can see movement as phones ping off towers in Etobicoke (where Millard lived) to Oakville (where Smich lived) to the home of Igor Tumanenko in Toronto who was selling his truck, to Ancaster (where Tim lived) and Brantford (where Tim's phone was found) to Ayr (where Millard owned a farm) and Breslau (where the Millardair hangar was.)

And we see that wherever Millard's phone goes, so too goes the prepaid phone registered to the mysterious Lucas Bate.


http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6...sma-cellphone-evidence-vital-if-not-riveting/

Can't answer your other question. Perhaps we have some legal minds here who can.

MOO

I actually just heard the answer to that question today from a Legal Expert talking on the radio about the JG trial in Toronto. In Canada, the accused is always presumed innocent and it's 100% up to the Crown to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. In doing so, they must disclose to the accused the evidence they have against them so the accused can defend the allegations. It is not up to the defence to prove their innocence thus it's not necessary for them to disclose the holes or inaccuracies in the Crowns evidence. I think I got that straight and hope it helps!