Bosma Murder Trial 02.17.16 - Day 10

[ABro]

Why wouldn't the defence have brought this up, if DM had been leasing the land to someone else, afterall, RP could then once again *attempt* to raise reasonable doubt, by saying, 'hey, see? It *couldn't* have been DM incinerating bodies in The Eliminator, since someone else was in fact leasing that land!'

Speaking in general terms, reasonable doubt is supposed to be reasonable not frivolous or fantastical or merely conceivable.

In order for the defence to introduce a third party suspect into a criminal case the scenario has to have an "air of reality":

In order for the judge to put a defence to the jury, the accused must point to evidence on the record that gives the defence an air of reality (R. v. Cinous, 2002 SCC 29, [2002] 2 S.C.R. 3). The trial judge must determine whether there is some evidence that is “reasonably capable of supporting the inferences required for the defence to succeed” (ibid., at para. 83). The air of reality test applies to all defences, and acts as a threshold to ensure that “fanciful or far-fetched” defences are not put before the trier of fact (para. 84). When applying this test, the trial judge must take the evidence to be true and must not assess credibility or make other findings of fact (para. 54).

https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/14676/index.do

 

[LoyalSleuth]

Where did the cell phone data show them on the 7th?
If i remember correctly MS was near farm and hangar as was DM.

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[ArianeEmory]

Speaking in general terms, reasonable doubt is supposed to be reasonable not frivolous or fantastical or merely conceivable.

In order for the defence to introduce a third party suspect into a criminal case the scenario has to have an "air of reality":

https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/14676/index.do

Air of reality. I like that.

 

[MsSherlock]

Sounds right.
I wish we knew if AN saw or did not see the seats in the truck or in the bed od the truck.
I am wondering if the seats were taken out when DM and MS allegedly picked up the eliminator at the farm on the way to the hanger. Or if they were remove at the hangar and burned there...


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I'm thinking that if they were taken out when they picked up the incinerator on the eve of the 6th it would have been really hard to drive the truck all the way back to the hangar without seats.(remembering that TB's truck was towing the incinerator) The Waterloo airport is on the other side of Cambridge from the farm-stop and go traffic thru town- IMO, it would have been a feat and they were probably removed that night back at the hangar or the next day and then taken back out to the farm in the Yukon or a trailer- or something. MOO

 

[ABro]

Air of reality. I like that.

Can't take credit for that one. It's a well established legal precedent.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Because the truck was still there.
Perhaps during business hours, the incinerator was burning in the parking lot, in the evening,
a bonfire was at the farm to burn the seats and other evidence. JMO

Clearly, something incriminating (not just the truck because it was still there on the 8th and 9th according to sworn testimony and phone pics from AJ sent to crimestoppers) was at the hangar during business hours of the 7th that he (DM) didn't want anyone to see. A refresher from the Crown's opening statement:

Within a few hours of Tim Bosma’s abduction, shortly after midnight on May 7th, images captured by a neighbouring business’s video surveillance system at the Millardair ( the family business Mr. Millard worked in) Hangar at Waterloo Regional Airport shows what the Crown intends to prove was Tim Bosma’s truck towing the Eliminator up to the hangar and parking outside. The truck and Eliminator were followed closely by a vehicle similar to a GMC Yukon, a vehicle the Crown intends to prove was owned by Mr. Millard on the night in question. This same video system also shows images of the Eliminator being ignited outside the hangar door. This, the Crown says, was the incineration phase of the death of Tim Bosma which took place over several hours in the early morning hours of May 7th.

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/2016/02/tim-bosma-trial-the-crowns-opening-statement.html

Which leaves me thinking... how long did it take this ghastly machine to cool down enough, to hitch it back up and move it? If the incineration phase took several hours in the early morning hours of the 7th, surely they felt they needed to wait a bit before hitching it up and hauling it out of there. Which would certainly explain the 'airport politics' line.

*just thinking out loud* & moo, etc.

 

[MsSherlock]

I am *so* confused! I assumed the Chas guy was referring to when a farmer *used* to lease land from the owner previous to DM. Do we know already that DM leased land to him as well, perhaps a continuation of a previous agreement was written into the agreement of purchase and sale on the Ayr property? Did Chas even know that the owner of the property had changed hands 2 years prior? Why wouldn't the defence have brought this up, if DM had been leasing the land to someone else, afterall, RP could then once again *attempt* to raise reasonable doubt, by saying, 'hey, see? It *couldn't* have been DM incinerating bodies in The Eliminator, since someone else was in fact leasing that land!'

When DM purchased the farm, the deal closed on May 2, 2011. When LE executed their search warrant on the farm, it has been stated that there was corn stubble in the field. IMO, since DM had owned the property for 2 years at that time, the fact that there was corn stubble during the investigation would indicate that it was being actively farmed- otherwise, the remnants of a crop from 2 years prior would have been gone. We haven't heard anything about DM farming, so IMHO it's safe to assume that the land was being leased to an area farmer. MOO

 

[hopingforjustice]

I really need a cheat sheet on this timeline because it's too hard to remember all the details.

the 7th was "airport politics" day
the 8th AJ saw Tim's truck in the hangar & was creeped out
the 9th he took pics & called CS
the 9th (late at night) DM & CN went to the farm & moved the incinerator into the tree stand (forest, woods, bush, tree line - I've seen it called numerous things) (and did whatever else? torched the seats?) then dropped the trailer with Tim's truck in it, at DM's mom's driveway)
the 10th LE showed up at the hangar in the am
same day - AJ shows up for work and the truck is gone and DM tells him to collect his things and go
the 10th LE arrested him in the pm

Do I have the timeline correct?

Only thing I would add is that cell phone pings put them in Kleinburg on the morning of the 9th , then took the trailer there 10:30 pm ish then went to move incinerator ( or do I have these last 2 items backwards?), then dropped locked box at "friends" at 4 am

 

[Juballee]

Sounds right.
I wish we knew if AJ saw or did not see the seats in the truck or in the bed od the truck.
I am wondering if the seats were taken out when DM and MS allegedly picked up the eliminator at the farm on the way to the hanger. Or if they were remove at the hangar and burned there...


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I believe AJ said the seats were removed and that he asked about it and was told that they were always (or usually?) removed because of a mould allergy DM had.

That's just my recollection, I could be wrong.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Only thing I would add is that cell phone pings put them in Kleinburg on the morning of the 9th , then took the trailer there 10:30 pm ish then went to move incinerator ( or do I have these last 2 items backwards?), then dropped locked box at "friends" at 4 am

IIRC (and don't get your hopes up, lol), pings placed DM at mama's that morning - but not CN. Her cell didn't come into the picture until that night.

 

[swedie]

Vilifying the <modsnip> neighbours who didn't even notice a noxious bonfire fueled with accelerant, probably in the middle of the night, on an uninhabited neighbouring farm property? As helpful as the dirtbike fellow turned out to be, he probably never would have called in his new 'find', since there was likely no way for him to make the connection between the property and the incarcerated suspect. I am seriously shocked that the neighbours didn't notice and report that fire. It's one thing to be easygoing about fellow farmers burning debris, but this was likely in the night at an uninhabited unused farm property which was probably huge due to the accelerant used. It can't be compared to just your average farmer burning rubbish, imho.

The fire may have been set in the wee hours of the morning when country folks are in bed. Also IIRC the land rolls quite a bit and perhaps where the fire was set, was not visible to neighbours. MOO.

 

[Sillybilly]

Remember, this is the Bosma murder trial thread (so not WM or LB). A couple of posts related to the WM and LB cases have been removed. Keep discussion focused on the current trial.

:tyou:

 

[Sillybilly]

FWIW re "airport politics" day, I highly doubt there were any real estate attendances by DM that day. All relevant legal documents are prepared and signed ahead of time. All he would need to do is pick up the key whenever it was convenient for him, whether that day or any other day after closing.

 

[swedie]

Do you think that maybe the seats were burnt on the "airport politics" day? IIRC, the cell phones of both accused travelled to Ayr that day. IMO, a couple 5 gallon containers of gas soaked into those seats would make them go poof pretty fast.

Or some of those chemicals stored in the barn in barrels. Maybe that's why they were stored out there...for burning evidence in the field of past and future murders/crimes? MOO.

 

[Sillybilly]

Clearly, something incriminating (not just the truck because it was still there on the 8th and 9th according to sworn testimony and phone pics from AJ sent to crimestoppers) was at the hangar during business hours of the 7th that he (DM) didn't want anyone to see. A refresher from the Crown's opening statement:

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/2016/02/tim-bosma-trial-the-crowns-opening-statement.html

Which leaves me thinking... how long did it take this ghastly machine to cool down enough, to hitch it back up and move it? If the incineration phase took several hours in the early morning hours of the 7th, surely they felt they needed to wait a bit before hitching it up and hauling it out of there. Which would certainly explain the 'airport politics' line.

*just thinking out loud* & moo, etc.

I don't think the tongue of the trailer would get hot resulting in it not being able to be hooked up. The exterior can't get that hot because the propane tank is located between the unit and the tongue. JMO

 

[swedie]

Sounds right.
I wish we knew if AJ saw or did not see the seats in the truck or in the bed od the truck.
I am wondering if the seats were taken out when DM and MS allegedly picked up the eliminator at the farm on the way to the hanger. Or if they were remove at the hangar and burned there...


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Don't know if this has been answered yet, but they couldn't have left them at the farmland the night of May 6th, as TB's truck was used to tow the incinerator back to the hangar and he obviously needed the driver's seat. DM went to the farmland at some point to put the incinerator in the barn, and then he returned Thursday with CN to move the incinerator amongst the trees. Was it the Thursday night DM burned the seats, in the wee hours of the morning prior to going to the friend's house to drop off the toolbox? I bet the Crown knows and we will find out soon enough. JMO.

 

[MsSherlock]

In reviewing some of the witness testimony I found it kind of ironic that DM was allergic to mould requiring all of the interiors of his vehicles to be stripped down yet he was driving around in his Yukon- a vehicle that certainly looked like it could contain a spore or two. MOO

 

[Avvocato]

Has it been determined who owned the escalator and skidsteer?

 

[swedie]

In reviewing some of the witness testimony I found it kind of ironic that DM was allergic to mould requiring all of the interiors of his vehicles to be stripped down yet he was driving around in his Yukon- a vehicle that certainly looked like it could contain a spore or two. MOO

I think we can file the mould allergy excuse into the same file folder as the aneurysm/brain bleed excuse, DM is intelligent declared by DP. If you're looking for that folder later, it's in the filing cabinet labelled BS & Lies. HTH and MOO.

 

[swedie]

Has it been determined who owned the escalator and skidsteer?

Not that I'm aware of, but DM had a Bobcat at his Maple Gate address. They could have been DM's or belonged to friends, or perhaps they were stolen. Maybe this information will come out during trial. MOO.

Another property that police searched over the weekend &#8212; a ranch-style house on Maple Gate Court in Etobicoke, co-owned by Millard and his now-deceased father, a former pilot &#8212; was quiet Monday.

Aside from a few house lights flicked on, there were no signs of activity at Millard's childhood home. A Bobcat sat in weeds in the back yard.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...et_up_at_millard_farm_in_waterloo_region.html