Bosma Murder Trial 02.22.16 - Day 12

[paris_paris]

How can something be made "very" public?? Did they put up a sign on the property with intention to build? The crown should take issue with that.

There would only be a sign put up if a zoning change is required. Anything that goes through (or is denied) by the municipality is on their website in their council meeting minutes.

 

[billandrew]

I am thinking that it will take that kind of an accountant to follow the assets as well.
And if DM sold things to his mother in order to hide or protect assets would those assets still be in jeopardy in the future.

The bigger question for me is can the family go after Millard Properties' assets at a later date and in a civil suit.....not unlike what happened in the OJ Simpson case with Ron Goldman's family and the family of Nicole Simpson.
We see so much of American crime and justice system on TV and no doubt it could be done there but what of the Canadian system.

There was an article in the Toronto Star (Alethea Dice also linked to it above) that analyzed the legal aspects of DM's property transfer:

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2013/06/05/millard_land_deals_beyond_smelly_experts_say.html

"Legal experts agree the documents show a series of sophisticated –— and curious — transactions for which there is a case to be made against Millard under the provincial Fraudulent Conveyances Act. The act clearly states the transfer of property to 'defeat, hinder, delay or defraud creditors or others of their just and lawful actions' — including suits or damages — is void if not done in 'good faith' or with knowledge of such action against them. A judge would ultimately rule on whether the transfers are null after hearing arguments on why they were made."

 

[Velma]

Adam Carter 2:03 PM
Crown Tony Leitch says he's asking about the SN500 unit -- which is made for up to a 500 pound animal.

Adam Carter 2:03 PM
There's also an SN250, which is for a smaller animal.

 

[Velma]

Adam Carter 2:05 PM
The door opening on The Eliminator unit seized from Millard's farm is 18.5 inches by 24.5 inches. It weighs 6,000 pounds with the afterburner. It’s 10 feet, five inches tall with the afterburner.

Adam Carter 2:06 PM
The burn chamber volume is 23 cubic feet.

Adam Carter 2:06 PM
The main burner is 480,000 BTU's. When it's in full use, it can get up to 1,600 degrees.

 

[Bsafe]

I hope so. I wonder if someone will write a book about this tragic event once everything is said and done??

I don't think that would be fair or appropriate for the family

 

[ArianeEmory]

It's extremely suspicious to me that the idea of someone else at Millard placing the actual order for the incinerator was put about as a possible defense of DM years ago.

 

[Velma]

Adam Carter 2:07 PM
There was a secondary unit attached -- because of Canadian emissions laws, every one sold in this country has to have an afterburner.

Adam Carter 2:08 PM
"Basically, there's just hot, clean air coming out of there," Penner says.

Adam Carter 2:09 PM
He was first contacted by Schlatman in 2013. Penner asked what the unit would be used for to figure out the specifications they would need.

 

[paris_paris]

It's extremely suspicious to me that the idea of someone else at Millard placing the actual order for the incinerator was put about as a possible defense of DM years ago.

Why is that suspicious? Many theories here, and clearly friends of all parties involved that knew some of the information are here as well.

 

[Velma]

Adam Carter 2:09 PM
Primarily, these incinerators are used to get rid of diseased animals. It burns 125 pounds an hour.

Adam Carter 2:10 PM
"It's just a dry powder basically that's left at the end," Penner says. You can then take it out of the ash door with a rake.

Adam Carter 2:11 PM
Schlatman was contemplating the 250 pound or the 500 pound model, Penner says.

 

[ArianeEmory]

Why is that suspicious? Many theories here, and clearly friends of all parties involved that knew some of the information are here as well.

They should get verified as insiders.

Suspicious in its specificity. It was typically included in 'conspiracy theory' posts.

 

[RandomName479]

Adam Carter 2:01 PM
They've sold incinerators all over Canada. "The bulk are for animal cremation and pet cremation," Penner says.

Adam Carter 2:02 PM
There are 250-pound units up to 3,000 pound units. That refers to the weight of the animal that can fit inside.

Adam Carter 2:02 PM
Three to four units a year would be sold in Canada each year.

3-4 units per year in Canada......so the theory that this is typical farm equipment goes out the window....

 

[Velma]

Adam Carter 2:12 PM
Schlatman was given a price quote on both models.

Adam Carter 2:14 PM
There is a roll back lid option that would open up the whole top of The Eliminator, but that wasn't used on the model that was found.

 

[Bsafe]

There would only be a sign put up if a zoning change is required. Anything that goes through (or is denied) by the municipality is on their website in their council meeting minutes.

My point is that there was no such sign on the property at the time of the alleged crime. But perhaps the neighbours did get letters. I am taking issue with Pillay's statement that it was made public, and we haven't been told how it was made public IMO

 

[puppyraiser]

Because its concealed on all sides by the natural landscape IMO

I realize that. ;-) I should have used the sarcasm emote when asking the question.

 

[Bsafe]

Why would he want a drive shed way out there on the property? Strange place to want to build it, IMO.

Because its concealed on all sides by the natural landscape IMO

 

[Abitcountry]

There was an article in the Toronto Star (Alethea Dice also linked to it above) that analyzed the legal aspects of DM's property transfer:

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2013/06/05/millard_land_deals_beyond_smelly_experts_say.html

"Legal experts agree the documents show a series of sophisticated –— and curious — transactions for which there is a case to be made against Millard under the provincial Fraudulent Conveyances Act. The act clearly states the transfer of property to 'defeat, hinder, delay or defraud creditors or others of their just and lawful actions' — including suits or damages — is void if not done in 'good faith' or with knowledge of such action against them. A judge would ultimately rule on whether the transfers are null after hearing arguments on why they were made."

Thanks so much....Read the article from beginning to end. I'd say the The Star pretty much covered it all.....and the situation is very similar to that of the Juice.

 

[Velma]

Adam Carter 2:15 PM
The quote Schlatman was given on a 250 pound was for just over $13K. The 500 pound model they went with was a few thousand more expensive.

Adam Carter 2:17 PM
Court now seeing an email back from Schlatman on behalf of MilardAir.

Adam Carter 2:17 PM
They're shipped directly from a factory in Georgia.

 

[cansleuther]

It's extremely suspicious to me that the idea of someone else at Millard placing the actual order for the incinerator was put about as a possible defense of DM years ago.

The information about an employee purchasing the incinerator was published in MSM in June 2013.

An employee of the Millard family’s aviation company, Millardair, handled the transaction around July of last year, Mr. Penner said.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/chilling-details-emerge-in-mysterious-bosma-case/article12757899/

 

[Velma]

Adam Carter 2:19 PM
Court now seeing an email from Schlatman. "My boss would like to order the SN500," it reads. "No roll up door please just the plain lift open door and using propane to fuel it."

Adam Carter 2:20 PM
Penner says Schlatman had talked about making The Eliminator a "'mobile unit." "That was the first time we had done it with a mobile unit," he says. "That was kind of unique for us."

 

[Alethea Dice]

It's extremely suspicious to me that the idea of someone else at Millard placing the actual order for the incinerator was put about as a possible defense of DM years ago.

Why would this be suspicious when the first reports were that an "employee" had placed the order? IIRC, the argument at the time was that DM could be considered an employee. From June 2013:

An employee of the Millard family’s aviation company, Millardair, handled the transaction around July of last year, Mr. Penner said.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/chilling-details-emerge-in-mysterious-bosma-case/article12757899/

ETA: I see that cansleuther already answered this.