Bosma Murder Trial 03.08.16 - Day 21

[DeepWoodsOff]

You know...even if they determine where the shot originated, how do we know for sure who was in each seat? Based on SB's testimony it is safe to say that it was DM driving and MS in the back when they left the driveway. But we also have thoughts and ideas posed by some on here that maybe they drove for a short time to try out the truck to make it look like a legitimate test drive. If that turned out to be a real scenario, who knows if they stopped and DM said "He's going to be doing most of the driving on our trip so I'd like him to drive a bit" as MS and DM switched spots? Ultimately I don't believe it mattered who pulled the trigger or from where. They are both in it equally based on Canadian law. MOO

 

[SnooperDuper]

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 54s54 seconds ago
#Smich lawyer Dungey asks about 2nd largest concentration of gunshot, above driver seat. Does it mean driver was shooter? Not with certainty

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 5s5 seconds ago
Hypothetical: shoot through window from outside truck? Gerard says possibility GSR could still be found on roof. Dungey done, witness done.

 

[Kamille]

Mar 8 2016 11:02 AM
Dungey now asking about another hypothetical where a person was standing just outside a front driver's side window and shooting into the truck through an open window. "That might be another reason why it would be consistent with 26 particles found in the driver's portion of the vehicle." Dungey says. Gerard says it's a possibility, but he really can't comment on if it happened.

Mar 8 2016 11:02 AM
Dungey now finished. Gerard is stepping down.

 

[SnooperDuper]

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 4s5 seconds ago
Dungey asks about if driver shot passenger. Gerard says greatest particles would end up on victim, seat. And on ceiling. #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 6s6 seconds ago
Gerard says some could end up on ceiling behind passenger as well. #Bosma

 

[JuneBug67]

Bottom line is that none of the Crown experts are going to say where the gun was shot from. The Crown's position on this is that because neither of them came forward at the time (or anytime after) to claim the other did the shooting, the trial will go forward as if it is not possible to tell, it was premeditated and they are both responsible for the shooting and the murder.

The defense will likely each make a case the the other one did it. The jury will then have to decide if they believe either defense or if they agree with the Crown that it doesn't matter, it was a premeditated act and they are both equally responsible.

MOO

Because of the forcible confinement charge, premeditation for Tim's murder doesn't have to be proved anyway to establish 1st degree. They stole a truck, with a man inside it, and a violet death resulted. That's enough.

Everytime I type stuff like this out I abhor this crime anew. A truck! All for a truck.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 51s51 seconds ago
Crown Brett Moodie calling next witness: Christianne Lis. Being qualified as a fingerprint expert.

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 24s25 seconds ago
Next #Bosma witness is @TorontoPolice fingerprint expert Christiane Lis

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 10s11 seconds ago
Dungey asks specifically about a Walther PPK .380. Gerard says he is not a firearms expert. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 16s17 seconds ago
She is with @TorontoPolice. #Bosma

 

[SnooperDuper]

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 37s38 seconds ago
Dungey asks if a discharged gun was put in a satchel, would particles be found there? Yes. #Bosma

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 19s20 seconds ago
Next witness is Christiane Lis, the supervisor of the Toronto police fingerprint section. #TimBosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 15s16 seconds ago
What about if it was washed? Dungey asks. Gerard says washing it could greatly reduce/eliminate particles. #Bosma

 

[SnooperDuper]

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 30s30 seconds ago View translation
Correction on spelling: Christianne Lys @TorontoPolice

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 12s12 seconds ago
Next up: Christianne Lys, with Toronto Police--an expert witness in fingerprint analysis. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 1m1 minute ago
Proper spelling is Lys. She's been qualified. She compared a photo of a finger to a print for identification.

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 54s55 seconds ago View translation
Correction: Christianne Lys

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 13s14 seconds ago
AFIS is Automated Fingerprint Identification System. Stores known prints and unknown prints from unsolved crimes.

 

[JuneBug67]

Ugh, not to give any excuse to DM/MS, but I'm suddenly picturing a comedy of errors a la Pulp Fiction where the gun goes off accidentally.

Totally a possibility. The cell phone evidence and general sloppiness has me most of the way convinced that this was not a planned murder.

 

[Kamille]

Mar 8 2016 11:06 AM
The next witness is a supervisor with the fingerprint section of Toronto Police. She mumbled the spelling of her name, so I can't say exactly what it is.

Mar 8 2016 11:07 AM
She is now in the qualification process to be an expert witness for fingerprinting.

Mar 8 2016 11:09 AM
Got her name - it's Christianne Lys. She's qualified as an expert.

Mar 8 2016 11:11 AM
Court now seeing a presentation from Lys about the automated fingerprint identification system, which is a storage, search and retrieval database for finger and palm impressions of "known individuals" along with unsolved prints from crime scenes. It uses an algorithm to assist the examiner in the case.

Mar 8 2016 11:12 AM
In February of 2014, a photo of a finger was emailed to her section. "We were asked if an individual can be identified from a photo of a finger," Lys says.

Mar 8 2016 11:13 AM
She says it depends on many factors, like resolution, etc.

 

[SnooperDuper]

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 14s15 seconds ago
Lys uses the Automated Fingerprint Identification System (AFIS). Database houses both known and unknown prints. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 59s59 seconds ago
Feb. 18, 2014 she was sent digital image of a finger and asked if she could identify person from that photo.

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 25s26 seconds ago
She has done this before. Digital image not distorted like lifted image can be. No pressure distortions.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 21s22 seconds ago
On Feb 18, 2014 she got an email w photo of a finger. No details included. Was asked if a photo of a finger can be ID'd. #Bosma

10 points for the first person that digs up that picture lol

 

[DeepWoodsOff]

Is this going to be the first we hear of MS fingerprints?

 

[Kamille]

Mar 8 2016 11:14 AM
This is the photo she was sent. It was seized from Millard's computer.

Mar 8 2016 11:16 AM
The photo was flipped, so the finger would correspond with the impressions in the database.

 

[billandrew]

Wow, I feel like DM just set himself up on purpose. Not only did he take a picture of his gun, but he made sure his index was clearly visible so that the print could be identified later. Thanks DM!

 

[CJPRINCESS]

Again, I'm pretty sure a bolistics expert will be brought in. I don't think the Crown is leaving one or the other out as potential shooter. It's just that blood spatter and GSR experts are not "qualified" to speak on the matter. This is the job of that ballistics expert..all MOO of course

 

[SnooperDuper]

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 1m1 minute ago
We're seeing the photo in question. Walther .380 with two fingers around it.

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 46s47 seconds ago
Feb 18 2014 police mailed her a photo of a hand holding a Walther PPK gun. She wasn't told what case it related to... 1/2

[video=twitter;707238179271651329]https://twitter.com/AdamCarterCBC/status/707238179271651329[/video]

 

[SnooperDuper]

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 2m2 minutes ago
Impressions in data base are lifted, so are reverse images. So she started by reversing photo image.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 2m2 minutes ago
Now seeing the photo she was sent. It shows two fingers holding a Walther PPK. #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 2m2 minutes ago
She was asked to identify the person through the finger ridges seen in the photo. #TimBosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 2m2 minutes ago
She looked for quantity and quality of friction ridges in image.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 2m2 minutes ago
She had to invert photo so that it could then be compared to known impressions in their AFIS database. #Bosma

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 1m1 minute ago
Lys was given a picture of a hand holding a Walther PPK and asked whether the print in the photo could be identified using a database

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 1m1 minute ago
Photo was then analyzed for friction ridges visible on finger. #Bosma

 

[Kamille]

Mar 8 2016 11:18 AM
Lys says the photo was good enough to move on to the comparison stage.

Mar 8 2016 11:20 AM
Assistant Crown Brett Moodie says it's an agreed fact that the examiner compared the print in the photo with Dellen Millard's fingerprints.

Mar 8 2016 11:21 AM
Now taking the morning break. Back in 20 mins.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 2m2 minutes ago
She inverted the photo and checked the finger in a police database of fingerprints. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 2m2 minutes ago
Jury has already learned about fingerprint comparisons from other experts. And has already seen the photo with gun and fingers.

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 1m1 minute ago
She says in some way the photo is easier because it isn't subject to the same distortion a as when cops lift prints off objects

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 40s41 seconds ago
Photo was of sufficient quality/clarity to be used for comparison, she says. #Bosma

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 1m1 minute ago
Provided the image is clear, she says, and in this case it was

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 52s53 seconds ago
She says this photo was clear enough for a comparison with @rcmpgrcpolice database.

 

[meterclicks]

Totally a possibility. The cell phone evidence and general sloppiness has me most of the way convinced that this was not a planned murder.

I'm about to fall over the fence but my pant leg is stuck lol. I think they did plan it. Completely intended harm but didn't know exactly what would happen and what to do about all of it which explains the sloppiness to me.