Bosma Murder Trial 03.08.16 - Day 21

[andreww]

They may not be able to tell who the shooter is from GSR, but DM had pics of the gun on his computer dated prior to MS, and DM ended up with the gun after the crime (until he was arrested and MS sought to sell or hide it - on DM's behalf?)

In my mind it is DM's gun, he used it, and he was the shooter.

Plus DM had the satchel. GSR found there was well.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 12s13 seconds ago
Pillay conceding prints the photo was compared to are that of Dellen Millard, taken by @HamiltonPolice. #Bosma Break now.

 

[RandomName479]

Again, I'm pretty sure a bolistics expert will be brought in. I don't think the Crown is leaving one or the other out as potential shooter. It's just that blood spatter and GSR experts are not "qualified" to speak on the matter. This is the job of that ballistics expert..all MOO of course

Respectfully, I disagree that these witnesses were not qualified to speak on the matter. They are both experts in their field, and often this information can be ascertained from GSR/blood splatter evidence. Unfortunately, due to the distortion of the evidence in this case due to many factors, they were not able to say with any certainty where the shooter was. I agree that a ballistics expert may be called, but based on what we have been presented with so far, I am doubtful that they will be able to say with certainty where the shooter was. MOO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 6 Min.Vor 6 Minuten
#Smich lawyer gestures with left hand in his hypothetical shooting. #Millard usually writes with his left hand. Usually. RH writing messier.

And MS?

 

[Ontario Mom]

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 1m1 minute ago
We're seeing the photo in question. Walther .380 with two fingers around it.

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 46s47 seconds ago
Feb 18 2014 police mailed her a photo of a hand holding a Walther PPK gun. She wasn't told what case it related to... 1/2

[video=twitter;707238179271651329]https://twitter.com/AdamCarterCBC/status/707238179271651329[/video]

from here http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...nside-tim-bosma-s-truck-court-hears-1.3430909

 

[JuneBug67]

You know...even if they determine where the shot originated, how do we know for sure who was in each seat? Based on SB's testimony it is safe to say that it was DM driving and MS in the back when they left the driveway. But we also have thoughts and ideas posed by some on here that maybe they drove for a short time to try out the truck to make it look like a legitimate test drive. If that turned out to be a real scenario, who knows if they stopped and DM said "He's going to be doing most of the driving on our trip so I'd like him to drive a bit" as MS and DM switched spots? Ultimately I don't believe it mattered who pulled the trigger or from where. They are both in it equally based on Canadian law. MOO

The premise of switching drivers could have put both DM and MS outside the vehicle with Tim still inside as well. Dungey just put out a hypothetical of a shot from outside the truck on the drivers side. If you knew you were going to shoot inside a vehicle you would probably want to be outside of it. I've though for a bit that the possibility of ricochet would unnerve anybody in a small, hard-surfaced space like a vehicle. This was yet another factor in my thinking that the killing was spontaneous/unplanned.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Those two lines on the thumb in the photo stood out to me because I've spent an unhealthy amount of time examining the images of his fingerprints.

 

[Massasauga Rattler]

Not sure the importance of connecting a gun in a photo with DM's prints. Even if it is proven DM is holding the gun in the photo, it does not prove if it was that gun was his, was used in the murder, which of the two shot it, or even if either of the two shot it. The gun photo only proves one thing if the finger is identified as DM...that DM once held a gun and took a photo of it.

 

[billandrew]

Pillay: "In the photograph of the gun, there were no attempts to obscure or conceal the fingerprint on the index finger, correct? It was right there for easy identification?"

Witness (fingerprint analyst): "Correct."

Pillay: "Thank you, I'm done my cross-examination."

:laughing:

 

[CJPRINCESS]

Respectfully, I disagree that these witnesses were not qualified to speak on the matter. They are both experts in their field, and often this information can be ascertained from GSR/blood splatter evidence. Unfortunately, due to the distortion of the evidence in this case due to many factors, they were not able to say with any certainty where the shooter was. I agree that a ballistics expert may be called, but based on what we have been presented with so far, I am doubtful that they will be able to say with certainty where the shooter was. MOO

But as we are seeing in court...they are not qualified in court. Im not personally saying they are not qualifed, the courts have stated this and so have they themselves. How often have we heard from witnesses "I'm not a bolistics expert"?

 

[Massasauga Rattler]

The premise of switching drivers could have put both DM and MS outside the vehicle with Tim still inside as well. Dungey just put out a hypothetical of a shot from outside the truck on the drivers side. If you knew you were going to shoot inside a vehicle you would probably want to be outside of it. I've though for a bit that the possibility of ricochet would unnerve anybody in a small, hard-surfaced space like a vehicle. This was yet another factor in my thinking that the killing was spontaneous/unplanned.

Who knows, maybe they got out under the premise of switching drivers, and as they walked by the passenger window, shot TB through the glass. Just a thought.

 

[Susanne]

BBM So highest concentrations by far were on the roof liner above the driver's seat and the passenger seat...... Hmmm.....I'm thinking this paints a pretty clear picture of where the shot originated. If it was fired from the back seat the concentration would be on the roof liner in the rear. MOO

But what if the rear passenger side person held the gun right up to TB head, close to the roof? Would make sense if the truck was bouncing a bit on country roads.

And do we even know 100% was driving at this time? Maybe seats were changed, maybe not. JMHO

 

[SnooperDuper]

My count:

Driver's door panel, 1 particle GSR.
Rear driver side door, 1 particle GSR.
Front door passenger, 0 particles GSR.
Back passenger door, 2 particles GSR.
Driver's seat roof liner, 26 particles GSR
Passenger's seat roof liner, 35 particles GSR.
Rear passenger side roof liner, 10 particles GSR.

 

[Massasauga Rattler]

The premise of switching drivers could have put both DM and MS outside the vehicle with Tim still inside as well. Dungey just put out a hypothetical of a shot from outside the truck on the drivers side. If you knew you were going to shoot inside a vehicle you would probably want to be outside of it. I've though for a bit that the possibility of ricochet would unnerve anybody in a small, hard-surfaced space like a vehicle. This was yet another factor in my thinking that the killing was spontaneous/unplanned.

Then again, a shell was found inside the truck, so assuming it was from this murder, the shooting likely took place inside the truck, not outside

 

[brightii]

You know...even if they determine where the shot originated, how do we know for sure who was in each seat? Based on SB's testimony it is safe to say that it was DM driving and MS in the back when they left the driveway. But we also have thoughts and ideas posed by some on here that maybe they drove for a short time to try out the truck to make it look like a legitimate test drive. If that turned out to be a real scenario, who knows if they stopped and DM said "He's going to be doing most of the driving on our trip so I'd like him to drive a bit" as MS and DM switched spots? Ultimately I don't believe it mattered who pulled the trigger or from where. They are both in it equally based on Canadian law. MOO

DeepWoodsOff this is what I think as well. I posted essentially the same thing last night along with a question whether TB could have been shot from outside the truck. Dungey asked the GSR expert today if that's possible and he said it is. I tend to think that scenario makes sense.

All MOO.

 

[Massasauga Rattler]

Wonder if on day one of this trial when the judge first announced a morning "recess," those two immature imbeciles, DM and MS, thought they'd get to go out to a playground and run around!

 

[andreww]

Lots of factors as to where the GSR ends up. The majority comes from the muzzle, so the fact that the biggest concentration was over the guy that got shot. I'm going to guess that the GSR around the shooter is carried in the smoke that is vented from the gun. In a car, it would make a big difference to where the GSR ends up if the windows are open, if there is a breeze, if the car is moving, etc.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

Then again, a shell was found inside the truck, so assuming it was from this murder, the shooting likely took place inside the truck, not outside

Just jumping off your post.

So last discussion of time stamps and video (was in reference to my theory of shot at farm) Someone mentioned there seemed to be time between leaving the Bosma's and the security camera near Bosma's house. I believe they said 15 mins...anyhow, a fire arm spent in a closed area would be awful! I'm sure their ears and heads were pinging pretty bad, so maybe that is the 15 mins mentioned.

 

[brightii]

Then again, a shell was found inside the truck, so assuming it was from this murder, the shooting likely took place inside the truck, not outside

Not necessarily. If the shooter shot TB from a standing position outside the truck, his extended arm and hand could well have been inside the truck and then the shell would be ejected inside the truck.

All MOO.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Not necessarily. If the shooter shot TB from a standing position outside the truck, his extended arm and hand could well have been inside the truck and then the shell would be ejected inside the truck.

All MOO.

But there was a window in the way?