Bosma Murder Trial 03.08.16 - Day 21

[Claroon]

How exactly does an armed robbery turn into a murder? Someone has to pull the trigger. Someone has to make that decision. TB grabs the gun, the shooter pulls the trigger. Did TB just preempt the shooter's intended action?

I think not having the background on the other cases makes this case stronger. I doubt they will bring the Harley into this, even. It's the story arc of abduction, murder, incineration, a breathtakingly fast flow of action on the part of DM and MS that make this seem like a planned act.

Yes, I get the feeling they don't want to muddy the case with other violations. Like they said there was only 1% material on the computer that was relevant to this case. I doubt the other 99% didn't incriminate him in other things he may be charge for at another time.

 

[Claroon]

By the way, today reading the twitter feed I was amazed at the brilliant police work--digital fingerprint from the photo. Boy, what criminal would have expected that? I've seen it on TV but didn't know they actually could do it. Also amazed by taking DM's car out and recreating the scene in front of the surveillance camera and comparing it. That was cool.

 

[SnooperDuper]

By the way, today reading the twitter feed I was amazed at the brilliant police work--digital fingerprint from the photo. Boy, what criminal would have expected that? I've seen it on TV but didn't know they actually could do it. Also amazed by taking DM's car out and recreating the scene in front of the surveillance camera and comparing it. That was cool.

You have to admire the dedication of the video guy Plaxton. In MSM it said he went through 10,000 videos and in tweets he mentioned watching one 30-40 times. I wonder how long he'll be on the stand? I am constantly blown away at how months or years of work get boiled down to an hour or two of testimony.

 

[Arnie M]

They had already stopped once for one of them to exit the Dodge Ram, so why the need to stop a second time for approx 10-15 minutes? Did something happen in the lead vehicle to necessitate the stop or was it also a planned stopping point?

Everybody forgets they stopped using their cell phones during that time period. The only way to communicate was by stopping along side the road .... which obviously they did several times. best wishes.

.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Toronto Sun clarifies a few things that popped up in the thread today:

When asked where the shot came from inside the truck, Gerard said he couldn’t pinpoint the exact location.

“All I can say is the gun was fired inside the vehicle,” said Gerard, who has a PhD in chemistry from McMaster University. “You cannot use residue for (determining) firing angles.”

The gun was never recovered, but the Crown said in its opening statement that Smich told his girlfriend he’d buried it in a forest after failing to sell it.

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/03/08/residue-cant-pinpoint-where-gun-fired-in-bosma-truck-expert

 

[Gumshew]

Yes, I get the feeling they don't want to muddy the case with other violations. Like they said there was only 1% material on the computer that was relevant to this case. I doubt the other 99% didn't incriminate him in other things he may be charge for at another time.

Convict on Murder 1, and the 25 year life sentence automatically takes care of any other violations.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Quote of the day

He found gunshot residue in the top tray of a yellow toolbox, meaning that a gun, or someone who touched a gun was inside the box.

http://www.chch.com/bosma-day-2/

 

[Juballee]

One of the videos that was on his computer shows him with what the photographer says is his, "rocket launcher." Who has that kind of thing?

Can you link to the video, please? I don't know if it is a type of weapon or the rocket launchers that nerds use to launch model rockets.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Can you link to the video, please? I don't know if it is a type of weapon or the rocket launchers that nerds use to launch model rockets.

Nerds? I class those things in with fireworks, and they attract...well did you see the episode of Trailer Park Boys where they steal a rocket launcher from Zellers? More of the hell raising type, says the stereotype.

 

[Juballee]

Everybody forgets they stopped using their cell phones during that time period. The only way to communicate was by stopping along side the road .... which obviously they did several times. best wishes.

.

I thought that the Bate phone got turned off after calling TB, and that TB's phone, MS's phone, (and possibly MM's Juicy phone? That one always confused me) were turned off around 10, but that DM's phone was never turned off.

I'm sure someone will know the correct times, my apologizes.

 

[Kamille]

The dates of the purchases of the various tools of the crime aren't relevant in that way IMO. DM had an entire toolkit at the ready for committing this crime - it doesn't really matter when he picked up each individual item so much as he had this stuff and he chose to make use of it at a given moment.

Isn't it chilling to think that this guy had a general interest in collecting a handgun and an incinerator? What kind of person owns that stuff?

Do you think the jury cares why DM says he bought the incinerator when they have seen it used on TB?

How exactly does an armed robbery turn into a murder? Someone has to pull the trigger. Someone has to make that decision. TB grabs the gun, the shooter pulls the trigger. Did TB just preempt the shooter's intended action?

I think not having the background on the other cases makes this case stronger. I doubt they will bring the Harley into this, even. It's the story arc of abduction, murder, incineration, a breathtakingly fast flow of action on the part of DM and MS that make this seem like a planned act.

Certainly not debating whether the jury will see this as a murder. Question is, will they have enough evidence, unanimously, to see it as premeditated, hence the first degree charge. At this point I'm not so sure. Still waiting on more testimony to come and the Crown to bring it home with their closing statement. Hoping they at least can see the forcible confinement aspect and are not swayed by the defense smoke and mirrors yet to come.

If not, I suppose we're looking at second degree murder? For one? Both?

MOO

 

[Kamille]

Everybody forgets they stopped using their cell phones during that time period. The only way to communicate was by stopping along side the road .... which obviously they did several times. best wishes.

.

Well it appears that at least MS's phone was off. And after going through the cell phone exhibit I actually think it ran out of battery as it appears his lawyer is going to argue.

MOO

 

[Arnie M]

The dates of the purchases of the various tools of the crime aren't relevant in that way IMO. DM had an entire toolkit at the ready for committing this crime - it doesn't really matter when he picked up each individual item so much as he had this stuff and he chose to make use of it at a given moment.

Isn't it chilling to think that this guy had a general interest in collecting a handgun and an incinerator? What kind of person owns that stuff?

Do you think the jury cares why DM says he bought the incinerator when they have seen it used on TB?

How exactly does an armed robbery turn into a murder? Someone has to pull the trigger. Someone has to make that decision. TB grabs the gun, the shooter pulls the trigger. Did TB just preempt the shooter's intended action?

I think not having the background on the other cases makes this case stronger. I doubt they will bring the Harley into this, even. It's the story arc of abduction, murder, incineration, a breathtakingly fast flow of action on the part of DM and MS that make this seem like a planned act.

I am with you all the way on it being planned

If they simply wanted to steal the truck they could have booted Tim out and high-tailed it to the hangar .... and if Tim resisted and they ended up shooting him they would have tossed his body in some rural area and high-tailed it home or to the hangar .... parked it out of sight ... then go home to sleep or whatever.

But no , they did it the longer and harder and (likely) planned way .... they headed West to Brantford and then North to pick up the incinerator and then to the airport , and then return the incinerator to the farm the next day.

The only thing they did not plan on was the huge amount of publicity surrounding the missing truck and the keen observations of Igor T.

If not for that , DM would be happily driving his newly painted Red Dodge Ram towing his race Jeep on the new trailer he was anxious for his employees to finish building.

Just as he had planned

.

 

[Juballee]

Nerds? I class those things in with fireworks, and they attract...well did you see the episode of Trailer Park Boys where they steal a rocket launcher from Zellers? More of the hell raising type, says the stereotype.

I disagree, fireworks are for night, rocket launches happen during the day, so you can see them. Also, because those rockets cost money and you spend a little time building them first, so you try to recover the rockets and re-use them, and you need light for that. I think that the night is the territory of the hell raisers, and not the nerds, if we are going to build on stereotypes.

If you have never built and launched a model rocket, I suggest you try it, it's a lot of fun, especially if you have any nerdy friends or children around. Trailer Park Boys is a very unrealistic show, and not at all what I would based my knowledge of rockets on, or where I would draw my stereotypes from, personally.

edit: I wouldn't be surprised if there is a firework called a rocket launcher, they seem to have all kinds of silly names from what I remember, I just still suggest everyone try a model rocket at least once, it's way more rewarding than you think it will be.

All my opinion only.

 

[Claroon]

With reference to posting a link to the "rocket launcher"

Not sure of my permission as it is on the Facebook "Discuss the case" page. Can we link that? I'm not sure if it is elsewhere.

 

[Itsmehi]

Hi everyone. First time posting here. Been following for awhile and finally just registered.

After reading this tonight
http://m.thespec.com/news-story/638...o-the-latest-terrible-evidence-in-bosma-trial

IMO
It makes me feel like TB was alive until this point. Correct me if I'm wrong but the video in this article was taken from across where phone was found right?

What if TB already knew something was wrong, threw his phone out the window to leave some sort of trace, we already know window was down when it was shot out, scuffle in the truck caused by the phone, TB gets shot for it, driver pulls over, tailing Yukon follows, they discuss events of what's just happened.
Article says they turned around at that point. Could they have went back to look for the phone that was tossed?

As of now I'm no longer thinking all 3 were in the car when TB was shot. If he was shot when all 3 were in truck, wouldn't blood have transferred to the Yukon when one of them got out to drive it?

Sorry if any of this has been brought up before. I try to stay caught up as possible.

Side note, did anyone else notice in the slide presentation of the DM computers that they blocked out his disturbing profile photo for the the stream gaming site?

MOO (new and learning) If I've posted something against the rules please point it out to me.

 

[swedie]

Premeditated, accidental, spontaneous? I admit I waffle back and forth based on all the evidence, testimony and my pre-conceived ideas about the character of both DM and MS. Much the same way I've waffled back and forth between which one actually pulled the trigger.

I'm not sure we'll ever have the answers to either of those questions. I just hope that what the Crown intends to prove, is actually proven to the jury beyond a reasonable doubt and they find them both guilty, as I believe they both are, 100%.

The theft of a truck was premeditated. At least two witnesses will eventually take the stand to confirm this. Why would anyone take a loaded gun on a test drive? To me that says, "I have murder in mind and I'm not afraid to do it, cause actually I've done it twice before, gotten away with it, and quite liked the thrill." If they took the gun along just to threaten TB, force him from the truck, why was it loaded? If anyone waved a gun in my face, tells me they want to steal my truck, I would comply and let them take it. Personally, I don't think TB was given that choice to exit his truck.

Because we know what we know, DM and MS are also up on first degree murder charges for LB and DM for murdering his own father, those cases are influential in this case. We are not the jurors, therefore we can allow the other two murders to play a role in our thought process, coming to our own conclusion in who we believe to be the actual shooter, who seems to have the personality for it, who had something to gain, who was the leader, why, etc. I see MS as a follower and was just ok with leading a hand when needed, as long as he got a piece of the pie when all was said and done. DM paid him off with money and/or drugs, that was enough to satisfy MS. DM wanted the truck for the Baja race and the thrill of once again committing what he thought would be another perfect murder. MS was willing to go along with DM to make the truck theft happen. Kind of like "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" sort of deal. One gets a truck and the other get drugs and/or money. Everyone's happy kwim. I doubt DM would even have had to offer up a big chunk of change to MS. When you have no job, no money, some is better than none. Whatever could hold him over until DM needed another favour and paid him off again. JMO.

 

[KanyeSouthWest]

That's true. In some aspects of the trial, the things the jury "doesn't know" could actually look more sinister with regards to just this case, however it could also be a big hindrance.

They also don't know why he owned a gun and took pictures of it. However, DM purchased the incinerator almost a year prior and the pictures of the gun were from more than a year earlier. Unless the jury is willing to make the leap that he had been planning this murder for a year or more, and without the Crown being able to show that he lied about why he purchased the incinerator, I'm afraid that whole thing may just be a confusing issue for the jury.

They know he purchased an incinerator in June 2012 through an employee, under the guise of purchasing it for MillardAir. They do not know why, nor what he or the employee told anyone as to the reason why. The Crown was unable to provide testimony as to what he told anyone. So it hinges right now on what SS is going to say about what he was told directly that it was for. Something tells me he's not going to be saying he was told it was for disposing of a body in the barn. So it's probably going to be wide open for the defense to make subtle suggestions as to what it was purchased for. And all the jury has seen is a receipt that shows it was allocated to a utilities/garbage account for MillardAir.

They are seeing pictures of a gun. They can probably reasonably deduce that it was the same gun used to kill TB. Will they make the leap to assuming that because DM or MS brought a loaded gun, that they had both been pictured with, one of them over a year earlier, to steal a truck, that they premeditated a murder with that gun? Or just an armed robbery that morphed into a murder?

And without the background info on the other charges that both are facing, will they be able to see a motive for premeditating a murder?

MOO

The Crown has to prove the fact that DM owned and/or had access to the incinerator on the night of May 6th. SS could take the stand and say that he was to told that it was bought to dispose of garbage at the hangar, or whatever he may have been told about its' use...the 'reason' SS may provide really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. IMO, the Crown has already established beyond any reasonable doubt that DM had ownership/access to the incinerator on the night in question. JMO

Regardless if it was a planned murder or not, the 1st degree murder charge is in play due to the 'forcible confinement' of TB leading to his death and that is what the Crown will have to prove to the jury. AFAIK, and I may be interpreting section 279 incorrectly, but according to the Code and applying it in this case TB was 'forcibly' confined in the truck once DM/MS brought out the gun. I feel that there has been enough circumstantial evidence presented by the Crown so far that 'forcible confinement' did occur (MOO), and there is a lot more testimony and evidence to come.

Salute to the mods, contributors and those taking taking the time to post MSM tweets. This site has been very informative and it's a credit to all of you. I have been following (and lurking) since the start of the trial....I live in Toronto and this case really resonated with a lot of people in the GTA and surrounding areas. My boss lives 5 minutes away from DM's Maple Gate residence and she has said that it's unnerving to think about what type of people may live just down the street. I hope that the Bosma family sees justice served. My heart goes out to them.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Certainly not debating whether the jury will see this as a murder. Question is, will they have enough evidence, unanimously, to see it as premeditated, hence the first degree charge. At this point I'm not so sure. Still waiting on more testimony to come and the Crown to bring it home with their closing statement. Hoping they at least can see the forcible confinement aspect and are not swayed by the defense smoke and mirrors yet to come.

If not, I suppose we're looking at second degree murder? For one? Both?

MOO

Well I wonder what the judge will ask the jury to consider, e.g., if you see evidence of forcible confinement (defined like this) OR premeditation (defined as well) then first degree.

MS strikes me as the kind of petty criminal that would say yeah I'm in, but only to a point, and then you're on your own. A little streetwise. The thing is, he was in for the incineration and then he came back and hung around the hangar and then after DM was picked up, he took care of the gun. He acted as a team player throughout, even if his involvement was lesser.

 

[swedie]

Hi everyone. First time posting here. Been following for awhile and finally just registered.

After reading this tonight
http://m.thespec.com/news-story/638...o-the-latest-terrible-evidence-in-bosma-trial

IMO
It makes me feel like TB was alive until this point. Correct me if I'm wrong but the video in this article was taken from across where phone was found right?

What if TB already knew something was wrong, threw his phone out the window to leave some sort of trace, we already know window was down when it was shot out, scuffle in the truck caused by the phone, TB gets shot for it, driver pulls over, tailing Yukon follows, they discuss events of what's just happened.
Article says they turned around at that point. Could they have went back to look for the phone that was tossed?

As of now I'm no longer thinking all 3 were in the car when TB was shot. If he was shot when all 3 were in truck, wouldn't blood have transferred to the Yukon when one of them got out to drive it?

Sorry if any of this has been brought up before. I try to stay caught up as possible.

Side note, did anyone else notice in the slide presentation of the DM computers that they blocked out his disturbing profile photo for the the stream gaming site?

MOO (new and learning) If I've posted something against the rules please point it out to me.

:wagon: Itsmehi! Great post. Yes this is one thing I've mentioned a couple times, the possible blood transfer to the Yukon. We will have to wait and see if anything comes up about it during trial.

I wonder now after today's video evidence if TB might have been shot more than once, in a couple different locations.

Yes the gaming profile. They blocked that out because of the upcoming trial to do with his father's alleged murder...and of course they wouldn't want to show "bad character" in unrelated information to this specific case, TB's murder.
MOO.