Bosma Murder Trial 04.25.16 - Day 39

[Elisabeth]

She has been challenged on several things and they mostly resulted in her admitting it was a lie. She stated a very important observation on Thursday about their mood in the Yukon, and I was hoping her credibility would hold. If DM's defense team managed to make her look like a liar, I expect it will be benign compared to Dungey's cross. He may go easy on her, but you can be sure he will discredit her damaging accounts of MS. And in doing so, make the mood in the Yukon even that more questionable.

MOO

but why would she lie about the happiness/seat bopping/celebrating? Any one of those three (regardless of words chosen incriminates both of them in my opinion.

 

[SnooperDuper]

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 2h2 hours ago
And another of Smich, giving thumbs up. Days before his arrest and days after police announced Tim #Bosma was dead.

 

[Orderly]

Abuse is a back and forth between good and bad. The problem is that the good can be bad but just look good in comparison. For example, if you were beaten by your partner being taken out to a party feels like you are being treated well in comparison to being beaten. For some victims of abuse, not being abused is being treated well. Also, in some scenarios perpetrators of abuse tend to be extra nice after beating their partners so you are abused then you are given flowers and an apology. Being treated nicely makes you feel like it was just a one time thing. You want to go back to the nice because it is so nice that you forgive the abuse. However, then it happens again and again. Eventually, it wears you down and you have no self-respect and you can't tell anyone because people tend to question your story unless you have visible bruises. Also, to outsiders it seems like you constantly change your story since last week you said he was beating you and this week he's buying you flowers. People tend to have trouble understanding those two behavioural patters because they seem inconsistent. You feel like you're being inconsistent and so you just put up with it and this leaves you isolated and makes you an easier target for abuse. You're friends get fed up with you for staying in this relationship. You question yourself and wonder why you are with this person but by that point you have no one else. However, unless you're completely beat down you can still try to stand up for yourself, however, that is a risk because you could be beaten for it. So, if what she said is true she was actually really, really brave for talking to the police about what he told her. I mean, there's variations on abuse, however, this is my personal understanding of what it means to be abused.

AMOO.

 

[MsSherlock]

She looks so young.

And my blood boils that MS had suggested that she "strip". Over my lifetime, I've met a few young strippers. Not one of them wasn't being exploited big time, even though they believed they were in full control- they were not. The reason? They took the bait- they're a stripper and they've degraded themselves to a point where there's no escape. Thinking they can get out is a fantasy! By the time they're peeling on the stage, they've abandoned and/or severed their support networks- their siblings, parents, school friends. The only people around for them are the other "girls" and the people who control them. When there's the need for a bit more money- it's time for a trick. Like I've said before, IMHO, I see a common theme developing here: the "escort" industry that LB was part of, MWJ and his stripper gal and the GA girls, MS wanting MM to strip.

I'm hoping that regardless what happens in this trial or how she feels after her testimony is finished, that MM gets on with having a good, productive life. She's not guilty of anything more than falling for a loser at Tim Hortons. One year in that relationship and she spends the next 3 years having to live with the fear of the moment she has to get on the stand in front of these two murderers. Personally, I've never experienced what this girl has. I find some of the media coverage extremely harsh. IMHO, we have to remember that in various ways, all of these witnesses were victims of DM and MS. The media is asserting that they should have done something different, when in fact, unless you walk a mile in their shoes, you have absolutely no idea what they were experiencing, feeling or fearing. To hear Sachak up there making it sound like TB was killed because of the actions or inactions of these witnesses is an insult to my intelligence. IMO, LB & WM are both dead. Did they question? Did they go off script?

There are two people on trial here. IMHO, nothing anyone could have done would have stopped them from doing what they wanted to do. Hearing the defence teams make it sound like it was other peoples fault and then the scapegoating mimicked by MSM is really starting to annoy me! I have no doubt that once a guilty verdict comes down, the peripheral players will get their lives back to normal and become productive law abiding citizens as DM and MS spend their lives in prison. MOO

 

[matou]

I haven't read through everything yet. Did MM say that she did or didn't know about the incinerator? TIA

 

[mozzagirl]

And my blood boils that MS had suggested that she "strip". Over my lifetime, I've met a few young strippers. Not one of them wasn't being exploited big time, even though they believed they were in full control- they were not. The reason? They took the bait- they're a stripper and they've degraded themselves to a point where there's no escape. Thinking they can get out is a fantasy! By the time they're peeling on the stage, they've abandoned and/or severed their support networks- their siblings, parents, school friends. The only people around for them are the other "girls" and the people who control them. When there's the need for a bit more money- it's time for a trick. Like I've said before, IMHO, I see a common theme developing here: the "escort" industry that LB was part of, MWJ and his stripper gal and the GA girls, MS wanting MM to strip.

I'm hoping that regardless what happens in this trial or how she feels after her testimony is finished, that MM gets on with having a good, productive life. She's not guilty of anything more than falling for a loser at Tim Hortons. One year in that relationship and she spends the next 3 years having to live with the fear of the moment she has to get on the stand in front of these two murderers. Personally, I've never experienced what this girl has. I find some of the media coverage extremely harsh. IMHO, we have to remember that in various ways, all of these witnesses were victims of DM and MS. The media is asserting that they should have done something different, when in fact, unless you walk a mile in their shoes, you have absolutely no idea what they were experiencing, feeling or fearing. To hear Sachak up there making it sound like TB was killed because of the actions or inactions of these witnesses is an insult to my intelligence. IMO, LB & WM are both dead. Did they question? Did they go off script?

There are two people on trial here. IMHO, nothing anyone could have done would have stopped them from doing what they wanted to do. Hearing the defence teams make it sound like it was other peoples fault and then the scapegoating mimicked by MSM is really starting to annoy me! I have no doubt that once a guilty verdict comes down, the peripheral players will get their lives back to normal and become productive law abiding citizens as DM and MS spend their lives in prison. MOO

BBM. MsSherlock, you said what I tried to express earlier, much, much better. Thank you!

 

[mozzagirl]

I would like to think a lot of these witnesses can move on with their life after testifying but how many will have to also testify for the LB and WM trials?

 

[JPC]

I am fortunate not to have personally been the victim of abuse/violence, just had a couple of garden-variety crappy boyfriends when I was about the age MM is now.

However, the part where MS wanted to turn her out as a stripper was just a little too specific, and rang 100% true. One of those little puzzle-pieces that enables you to see the big picture.

Agreed. That turned my stomach and then to see those pics of her at the wedding where she looks so young.

It is all just so wrong and tragic.

I can't imagine how the Bosma's are holding up.

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

The crown must love these two defendant cases. Both of these lawyers are taking turns trying to make the other look more guilty and solidifies the crown's case. I also doubt the Crown would have been allowed to bring up the abuse aspect of the MS/MM relationship since its not relevant to the crime but since its part of DM's defense, it was allowed.

 

[matou]

CHCH news coverage of today's testimony.

http://www.chch.com/bosma-day-41/

 

[Ontario Mom]

Yep, she's lying, I noticed that last Thursday. But they have all lied. I really think the entire gang knew what was going on even before the test drive. Millard and Smich were showing off their guns on social media, so no surprise there. They all knew about the incinerator and were also probably aware of what it was for. Nobody asked questions. Nobody cared. All guilty of something and scrambling for cover now.

I really do think you're reaching here.

There has been no evidence to show all these people had full disclosure of DM and MS's plans to both steal a truck and kill the owner. Some did know certain things, but from all the testimony and evidence we've seen & heard, most did not know the full scope.
They were showing off their guns on SM? I don't recall seeing any evidence of that either - just messages between each other and stored data on their devices. Maybe there were SM accounts posted I missed where these guns were shown?
Some did know about the incinerator and some didn't. Some did ask questions and they were essentially dismissed or given some lame answer.

Yes, some have in fact lied to cover their own butts, IMO. Lots of really dumb, irresponsible things went on. But none of the friends or GFs are on trial. None of them shot Tim Bosma and stole his truck. I also suspect none of them genuinely believed either MS or DM were capable of actually killing someone, so the shock of learning that probably had a lot to do with sending them all into CYA mode. Not making excuses for any of them, but it is what it is.

I feel sorry for MM. I really do hope (as others have suggested) she's able to get some good counselling and deal with this part of her life.

moo - fwiw

 

[ArianeEmory]

I'm with Ontario Mom.

I'm tending towards defending MM because, to be frank, I think she is being unfairly slammed by some merely due to being female. (I expect the same thing to happen with CN--she's charged with accessory, but I expect more overall hatred to be poured on her than has been poured on MS, who was charged with murder. Time will tell.)
Anyway, I think all the "kids" knew DM/MS were going to steal a truck. I don't think any of them knew they were going to kill someone for it. I think if they did, they'd be in jail too. But this means that DM was so sociopathic he thought their murder victim wouldn't be missed, and MS was so dumb he believed DM about it.

So my working theory is they blabbed about stealing the truck because theft was de riguer in this crowd, but not the murder--and they believed no one would ever put two and two together, due to a stunning combo of arrogance and stupidity.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Just finished reading the tweets from AC and MH for today. So the real MS is finally out of hiding. Can't say any of today's news came as a big surprise. Kind of like reading a book that you know how it's going to end, but don't know quite how it's going to get to there. JMO

 

[Tealgrove]

MOO

As far as MM goes, I am conflicted to a point. I think she got herself in a whole lotta trouble when she hooked up with MS. Drugs were part of her life, trouble at home, out of the house, hooks up with MS and so it goes. Abuse or no abuse, it's sad really. Very sad and she is so young. The lying doesn't sit well with me and never does. Tell the truth, suck it up and get on with it. As bad as it is, it's only worse when you lie.

At the end of the day, she is not a bad person and she is a victim too just by virtue of her association with MS. She didn't kill anyone and as has been said by several here tonight, MM is not on trial however, the Defence has put her life on trial to save two murderers. It just doesn't sit well with me.

I

 

[Alethea Dice]

The crown must love these two defendant cases. Both of these lawyers are taking turns trying to make the other look more guilty and solidifies the crown's case. I also doubt the Crown would have been allowed to bring up the abuse aspect of the MS/MM relationship since its not relevant to the crime but since its part of DM's defense, it was allowed.

I agree. At first I wondered why the Crown even bothered calling MM as a witness. But by doing so, they allow the defense to just go ahead and make the case for them. Turns out that, in spite of what she wanted desperately to believe about MS, her testimony is probably going to do more against him than any of the other witnesses. JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

I haven't read through everything yet. Did MM say that she did or didn't know about the incinerator? TIA

IIRC, she said both.

 

[Georgeo]

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 2m2 minutes ago
"In spite of that abuse, your love for him never faded." Right. She says she sees through it clearly now.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 2m2 minutes ago
Sachak suggests at 19 she was in a difficult spot. "I can see it clearly," she says of today. #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 1m1 minute ago
Sachak now asking about Isho, Smich's friend. He had a "gorgeous girlfriend," Sachak suggests. She agrees. #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 1m1 minute ago
Asking about IIsho, "a close friend of Mr #Smich," who had a gorgeous girlfriend. A stripper. #Smich wanted Meneses to work with her.

Shannon Martin ‏@ShannonMartinTV 1m1 minute ago Brampton, Ontario
Smich wanted Meneses to strip. To make him money #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 1m1 minute ago
She was a stripper. Sachak suggests Smich wanted Meneses to work with her, to make money for him. She agrees. #Bosma

well, isn't MS a class act - acting MM to strip and give him money? Ugh. The more we find out about DM and MS the worse they sound.

 

[Georgeo]

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 3m3 minutes ago
He told her to work. He didn't have to though--he had his "mommy," Sachak says. She agrees. #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 3m3 minutes ago
#Smich did not work. Meneses paid his way. "What did he do? Compose rap lyrics" - Sachak

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 3m3 minutes ago
"And What'd he do? He composed rap lyrics," Sachak says. "Yup," she says. Agrees they were violent lyrics. #Bosma

Shannon Martin ‏@ShannonMartinTV 2m2 minutes ago Brampton, Ontario
Millard's lawyer says while Meneses worked, Smich lived w his mother. Didn't work. Wrote rap lyrics. About violence, cars, and other girls

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 2m2 minutes ago
"He'd talk about Cadillacs and violence," he says.
"And other girls," she adds. #Bosma

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 3m3 minutes ago
Mark smich had no job and forced Marlena to make money. Get a job. He wld play video games and write violent rap lyrics about other girls.

Class act that MS was,,,,

 

[Georgeo]

As far as I understand, all the stuff about the pregnancy test and him abusing her and trying to get her to go into stripping/prostitution isn't relevant to the verdict since the accused cannot be convicted of murder based on that. The relevant information she provided was she corroborated the story about being picked up the next morning, which was evidenced by the videos and she also confirmed that he tried to sell the gun and get rid of the weed (which was confirmed through text messages and by other witnesses). Therefore, fine she isn't totally credible and fine let's say all the other witnesses aren't either but in the big scheme of things I think the narrative about what happened is still pretty consistent. The facts are that both planned to steal a truck (mens rea, evidenced by the text messages and testimony), both had guns, which gave them the capability to murder TB (evidenced by the pictures of each of them with guns) and both were present in the general area where the crime was committed after it was committed and tried to remove evidence (evidenced by cellphone pings and the video). Unless, these witnesses planned an elaborate conspiracy their story is still pretty legitimate.

IMO

. You are bang on with this comment!

 

[hellkat2]

You can think one thing but feelings take a long time to go away in some cases. From my own experiences I know.

Well that and she and smich had a no contact order didn't they?