Bosma Murder Trial 05.16.16 - Day 49

[hopingforjustice]

I didn't really see any HUGE doubts today. Maybe there will be an AH HA moment but for me it wasn't today

There may have been one but It got lost in the monotony! I know I found it easy to carry on with my work today. I am guessing the jurors must have found their minds wandering away at times as well. JMO

 

[brightii]

One thing I've been wondering, would it be possible that MS tried to make a deal with the crown, but they refused, as they felt they had enough to get him for first degree? Would the public have been made aware of this, or is it possible it's being covered up by legal arguments til the jury is sequestered?

I wondered about this very thing in a post a while back. I don't know the answers, but it is possible IMO that MS did ask to plead to a lesser charge and was denied. I'm guessing here, but I think MS's refusal to lead LE to the gun could have been the reason why no deal was made with him. Speculating only.

All MOO.

 

[spanishshara]

I just watched the press conference that was held after DM's arrest was announced with DP, DM's original lawyer. Kamille reminded me about it tonight. DP said he couldn't get into the framing aspect and that multiple suspects were being sought. Can you imagine what MS must have thought if he saw and heard DM's lawyer speaking about the case? I'd think it likely that MS would assume DM had been talking to his lawyer and maybe even to the police, or that police knew about others involved and that could have caused MS to become paranoid and think DM was going to blab about MS and set him up as the fall guy.

I think that both DM and MS were only interested in saving their own hide and both were prepared to deny any involvement in TB's murder and to place all the blame on the other at all costs to avoid prison, but IMO both were in on everything involved with the crime together all along until they each got arrested. That's when the bond between them began to break, IMO. The only reason either of them had to try and frame the other is because they didn't really trust each other enough to stay silent for long, so both tried to spin a credible story to save themselves and to take the other one down. Neither of them was prepared to sacrifice their own freedom for the sake of the other and everything they did after their arrest was all about self- preservation. Now it may be hard for the jury to know which one to believe and that just may result in a conviction for 1st degree murder for them both.

All MOO.

Yeah - I think MS knows way more but I think he was paranoid + a criminal history and took the advice of people like his sister and just wanted rid of it. Today's cross did poke holes in MS story/credibility but it's not enough for me to be fully convinced DM didn't pull the trigger either. IMO we will never know the truth about that. But I can see under duress why he'd hide it. Obviously you can make the case that if he were innocent he wouldn't have done it/pretending now in 2016 he still doesn't know what happened to it and that = guilt. Anyways I think both sides of the argument have good points.

 

[Inspector_North]

Hard to imagine that if they only wind up getting MS on a AATF conviction, he could be on the street almost immediately, given the three years he's already served and the typical parole schedule.

Would he not remain in jail until after his other first degree charge trial?

MOO

 

[hellkat2]

I don't like Sachak or his lame attempts at humour, but he's doing a good job, IMO. Sachak is making it very clear to me that MS is lying. MS can't back his stories up with any detail whatsoever.
As if he can't guess at the size of the spade he used, how he carried the spade on his bike, whether he buried the gun in a ravine or a bush, etc. etc. Pfffft.

Kinda similar to CN's performance. She couldn't remember anything either.

 

[hellkat2]

IF in fact, MS did not shoot Tim but it was DM that did, it would obviously be in MS's best interest of course to produce the gun. IF this is actually what happened, and IF he really did bury it in a haze of panic and confusion and smoking and drinking... it would seem to me he really doesn't remember where he buried it.

I would think that MS would want to have his wits about him if he was about to go on a "mission" to hide the murder weapon. I really don't think he would get drunk and stoned and then get on a bike and ride into a forest. This is not sounding credible to me.

 

[Claroon]

Because he enjoys seeing people suffer? Just a guess. He's a vile human being.

I don't think MS possesses a great deal of intellectual prowess. Sachack on the other hand, is well trained in what he's doing. Yet somehow he can't get MS to change his story. Not even slightly. To me, this lends a great deal of credibility to the idea that MS isn't actually lying.

I don't doubt that MS lawyers practiced with him before today's events. Pretty sure they would pose ridiculous questions in all tones of voice so he could practice being calm and saying the same answers repeatedly. It's called coaching IMO

 

[hellkat2]

It's kind of no win questioning. If he doesn't remember anything that doesn't feel credible, but it's consistent. If he claims to remember it would be "oh you remember this detail but not where you buried a gun!".

Someone posted that why would MS wrap the gun up so well and bury it? Why wrap it???? Cuz he was planning on going back for it. Now he is saying he didn't wipe the gun down in his testimony. Why not?

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

I'm curious to how many people would remember. If one was to go out into a forest and bury something if they'd really know where exactly they buried it. Be in the frame MS claimed to be in (scared, frantic etc). Don't look for special trees, rocks or anything iconic to where you bury your item and in the dark. Go back in 3 days and see if you can find your item. I'm going to say, I'm 100% sure I wouldn't find my item or even be able to tell you where its location is. Other then, in a forest somewhere and which forest.

I understand your point, and it is a possibility.

But I do find it very difficult to believe MS when he says he can't remember the general direction he rode his bike in that night, or the approximate size of the spade he was carrying. There must be some images in his mind when he thinks back to that night.

MOO

 

[Ontario Mom]

If it was a family member of mine that was murdered I would want to find out who, what, when and why. I would want to know that everything that could be done was done in order to get the answers to these questions and that the criminals faced the courts.

No question, I would too. But knowing where the gun is brings no peace. DM has plead not guilty and will not testify. IMO, because he's a cowardice piece of trash while the entire world is watching. He's only brave in the middle of the night sneaking around stealing other people's belongings and/or buying friends with free drugs, a place to party and join him in online gaming.

MS has also plead not guilty and HAS testified and told the court and the Bosma family, the who, what, when and how of that night. Whether anyone believes him or not, at the very least he's admitting he was there, admitting the plan was to steal the truck (DM's plan, by the way), etc. Not that it's going to bring any peace to the Bosma family, it at least gives them some answers.

moo.

 

[newone]

I understand your point, and it is a possibility.

But I do find it very difficult to believe MS when he says he can't remember the general direction he rode his bike in that night, or the approximate size of the spade he was carrying. There must be some images in his mind when he thinks back to that night.

MOO

I am having trouble imagining a person with a rotator cuff/shoulder injuring riding a bike and holding a garden spade?? Awkward at best and can't imagine how he could have pulled off that feat.

 

[Kamille]

But, LE would not have finished the investigation and the lawyer wouldn't know how much they had on him at that point. Even DM assumed they didn't have much. "he was just a normal guy who shopped at Costco." IMO

If MS is telling the truth the only thing LE would have "had on him" was evidence that would corroborate his story. This business of "wait until we find out what they have on you before you tell LE what happened" is absurd. To me that is like saying "wait until you know what they have so you can fit your story to the evidence". Any good lawyer should encourage his not guilty client to speak to LE about their level of involvement in the crime with the lawyer present to make sure their rights were being protected.

If MS had said right at the beginning, "I want to talk to you about what happened but I want a lawyer present", LE would have accommodated that request. I have no sympathy for the person who says/thinks "I want to see what you've got on me before I talk".

MOO

 

[puppyraiser]

Did anyone catch during testimony that Smich wasn't concerned about anyone else (a child) finding the gun because he couldn't find it himself? Does that imply he went back at some point and tried to find it or lead LE to it? I honestly could see him in a drug and booze induced state thinking that burying the gun might actually be a good idea. Foliage at that time of year wouldn't be too thick so it is possible that he was able to ride the trails with more ease (star/moon light) than say later in May or early June when the leaves are on the trees. IMO.

I struggle with today's testimony that he couldn't remember what sized shovel he used. If the story was true, I would think he'd know and remember what he used to dig the hole. IMO he did bury it but directed someone else to the location relatively quickly and that person had possession of it within a day or two.

 

[brightii]

I don't think MS possesses a great deal of intellectual prowess. Sachack on the other hand, is well trained in what he's doing. Yet somehow he can't get MS to change his story. Not even slightly. To me, this lends a great deal of credibility to the idea that MS isn't actually lying.

You could very well be right, but it could also be that MS realizes the importance of his staying on track and sticking to his story. After all, if he *advertiser censored***s up this time, he knows he will be convicted and IMO that is a powerful incentive to stay the course. Also, sometimes when a person tells the same story over and over again it becomes their "truth" and even if it is a lie they can convince themselves to believe that something happened as they say.

There's so much at stake for MS and I think he is fully aware if it and he's also been expertly prepared by TD. I do feel sympathy for MS, even though I do think he's guilty, because he seems to be more like the others in DM's entourage, wayward and impressionable, and I do think he can be rehabilitated, unlike DM. But I could be wrong and I may be misplacing my sympathy for him and he could have acted out as viciously against TB as did DM. Maybe after LB's trial I will be able to feel more certain about MS. I can't shake her murder off and both DM and MS are charged so it makes sense to me that MS is likely more violent than I'd like to believe.

All MOO.

 

[ArianeEmory]

I am having trouble imagining a person with a rotator cuff/shoulder injuring riding a bike and holding a garden spade?? Awkward at best and can't imagine how he could have pulled off that feat.

I don't think he had a torn rotator cuff, I think he had a shoulder that kept dislocating, which would mostly make it painful to lift the arm up high (or other things).

Only repeating what I've read here. I've never had this kind of injury. He obviously could function well enough to help strip the truck.

 

[Ontario Mom]

I would think that MS would want to have his wits about him if he was about to go on a "mission" to hide the murder weapon. I really don't think he would get drunk and stoned and then get on a bike and ride into a forest. This is not sounding credible to me.

Well, I've never been friends with a thief who shot a man in cold blood just to steal his truck, then incinerated his body. So I honestly can't say what I'd do if I found myself in that situation. Especially if I were a pot smoker & drinker with a criminal history of my own.

This is assuming of course, MS's version of events of that night is the truth. While I suspect he's likely holding back some things, I tend to believe his version at this point.

 

[hellkat2]

Maybe there is method to this madness of cross. Maybe Sachak is trying to get him agitated to show how his temper can escalate? Just a thought.

Sachak is playing with him. Basically he is giving MS back what MS gave to him. You want to make ridiculous statements then I am gonna ask you ridiculous questions that equally match and surpass them.

 

[Kamille]

I wondered about this very thing in a post a while back. I don't know the answers, but it is possible IMO that MS did ask to plead to a lesser charge and was denied. I'm guessing here, but I think MS's refusal to lead LE to the gun could have been the reason why no deal was made with him. Speculating only.

All MOO.

If he did try to plead guilty to a lesser charge in exchange for information, it probably would have been far too late at that point. LE and the Crown have determined that this was either a premeditated crime or was committed during a forcible confinement or both. I suppose we'll get their thoughts during the closing argument. They seem to believe that it just doesn't matter at this point who pulled the trigger since they have both violated the criminal code in regards to 1st degree murder. I tend to agree with them.

MOO

 

[canadiangirl]

Did anyone catch during testimony that Smich wasn't concerned about anyone else (a child) finding the gun because he couldn't find it himself? Does that imply he went back at some point and tried to find it or lead LE to it? I honestly could see him in a drug and booze induced state thinking that burying the gun might actually be a good idea. Foliage at that time of year wouldn't be too thick so it is possible that he was able to ride the trails with more ease (star/moon light) than say later in May or early June when the leaves are on the trees. IMO.

I struggle with today's testimony that he couldn't remember what sized shovel he used. If the story was true, I would think he'd know and remember what he used to dig the hole. IMO he did bury it but directed someone else to the location relatively quickly and that person had possession of it within a day or two.

Yep I agree. That's why I think he actually doesn't know where the gun is

 

[Mikala]

That's what I was wondering. Where is TD's objection?

Asked and answered? Badgering the witness? This is not an LE interrogation. Pretty sure TD would not have gotten away with doing this to CN or any of the others.

MOO

I agree TD would not have gotten away doing this with CN or the other witnesses, but at the same time, they weren't the ones up on trial.