Bosma Murder Trial 05.19.16 - Day 52

[Claroon]

Its fair to say the Jury has a difficult job to come to a conclusion of what they believe happened. I imagine that it will be tough for them to all come to an agreement. What happens if it ends up being a Hung jury?

hung jury definition. A jury that is unable to reach a verdict of guilty or not guilty. The result is a mistrial, and legal proceedings must be reinitiated to bring the case to trial again.

They don't have to come to an agreement of exactly what happned. To know that they'd have to be there. They only have to add up all the evidence and ask themselves if it points to the idea both DM and MS were involved in murdering TB. IMO

 

[DMB]

Really DM, you sat in jail for all these years, not once freaking out about what you knew, still refusing to speak, and writing letters about not sure which defence to take!!!!!!!!!
This is a defence crafted to the evidence!!!!! BTW, isn't this considered NEW evidence and do we not have the opportunity to cross Mr. Millard????

 

[Katpaws]

Plus... "oh no!" and "let's call an ambulance!" SERIOUSLY? From the same guy charged with LB and WM's deaths? Um... no.

That is absolutely what got me. They had a chance to make DM's story sound at least a bit believable, but the "dialogue" is just too much. "Oh no!" says DM, master thief, manipulator, illegal gun owner, incinerator owner, etc... Sure.

 

[RandomName479]

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 8m8 minutes ago
The plates he used, Smich says, were from the red Dodge Ram truck Millard had. #Bosma

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 8m8 minutes ago
Smich says he did change the plates. "He'd done this before on other missions," Smich says. #TimBosma #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 8m8 minutes ago
They were the license plates from Millard's red dodge. "Some counter-evasive mission?" Sachak asks. There's a dead man in the truck.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 8m8 minutes ago
Sachak says there are differences between the two trucks. #Bosma's truck was black, a 2007.

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 9m9 minutes ago
Smich says he put license plates from Millard's red truck onto Bosma truck.

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 9m9 minutes ago
Sachak says the truck colours are different, and the years are different. #TimBosma #Bosma

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 9m9 minutes ago
MS' I told him I don't want to be involved. He told me I'm in it. I'm w a crazy man who just killed someone. He told me don't worry."

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 9m9 minutes ago
He adds that there was a dead man inside. "He wasn't moving," Smich agrees. #Bosma

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 9m9 minutes ago
Smich says he found himself in the middle of a dark road with a lunatic carrying a gun, he didn't want to ask questions. #TimBosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 9m9 minutes ago
Sachak points out all the differences between Millard's truck & Bosma's. Dangerous to put license plates to truck that doesn't match

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 9m9 minutes ago
Sachak asks about the logic. Smich says there wasn't much logic coming from Millard at the time. #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 9m9 minutes ago
"Dangerous to put logic to a killer who is testifying," Sachak says to Smich

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 9m9 minutes ago
"Sir, there's not too much logic that was coming from Mr. Millard," Smich says. #TimBosma #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 9m9 minutes ago
Sachak fires back that there's not much logic "when a killer is testifying." Smich says that's not true. #Bosma

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 9m9 minutes ago
"There's not too much logic when a killer is testifying," Sachak says. Smich says again that's incorrect. #TimBosma #Bosma

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 9m9 minutes ago
Sachak wants to go through the logic of changing plates. Smich says "there wasn't too much logic coming from Millard" #TimBosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 9m9 minutes ago
"He told me to change the licence plates sir and that's what I did."

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 9m9 minutes ago
Sachak asking if DM did anythg. Point the gun at him. Hurt him. Kick him. MS 'i felt threatened enough. I was scared. Terrified. "

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 9m9 minutes ago
Sachak: Where's the logic in that? Smich: "Sir, there's not too much logic coming from Mr. Millard."

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 9m9 minutes ago
Smich says they never searched for a specific year model. He's starting to sound a little rattled. #TImBosma #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 9m9 minutes ago
Sachak says Mr #Bosma's truck was a 2007. Dell's was from 2005. Smich agrees.

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 9m9 minutes ago
Sachak counters "there's not too much logic coming from a killers testimony" #TimBosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 10m10 minutes ago
Sachak: "There's not too much logic when a killer is testifying."

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 9m9 minutes ago
Sachak asks if he's prepared to concede that the #Bosma truck is black and Dell's is red. Smich agrees.

 

[redheart]

That is absolutely what got me. They had a chance to make DM's story sound at least a bit believable, but the "dialogue" is just too much. "Oh no!" says DM, master thief, manipulator, illegal gun owner, incinerator owner, etc... Sure.

You're right. Absolutely unbelievable. As is the story of poor frightened, threatened, scared and confused MS, who is also charged with 1st degree murder in LB's death.

 

[RandomName479]

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 9m9 minutes ago
Sachak testing smich on why need to change plates when dates/vehicles won't match. It's not logical he says. @AM900CHML

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 10m10 minutes ago
Smich sounds annoyed when he tells Sachak he doesn't know what years any of the vehicles involved were. #TimBosma

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 10m10 minutes ago
Sachak now pointing out the difference between Millard's truck and Bosma's truck. #TimBosma #Bosma

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 9m9 minutes ago
Sachak' there is no logic when a killer is testifying"@AM900CHML

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 9m9 minutes ago
Sachak asks if it makes sense that Dell would put plates on a truck with so many differences when there is a dead man inside. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 9m9 minutes ago
Sachak asking if it makes sense to put red truck plates on black truck with a dead man in it?

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 9m9 minutes ago
Smich says that's what he told him to do. #Bosma

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 9m9 minutes ago
Smich says changing the plates was for cameras. Sachak says "doesn't it seem odd" that Millard would ... #TimBosma #Bosma

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 9m9 minutes ago
Sachak suggesting logic of changing plates doesn't add up. Smich isn't budging. @AM900CHML

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 9m9 minutes ago
Sachak says if police happened to drive by & punch in the plate, they would notice the differences between #Bosma and Millard trucks

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 9m9 minutes ago
...put different plates onto a truck with separate model, make and colour numbers. #TimBosma #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 9m9 minutes ago
Trucks were also different years.

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 9m9 minutes ago
Smich says no matter what, they "share similar characteristics." #TimBosma #Bosma

 

[Miranda16]

If TB grabbed the gun from MS, he'd have to turn around (to his left most likely) and reach toward the rear seat. That wouldn't explain damage to the right passenger window. It would more likely damage the windshield or roof.

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 27s27 seconds ago
"Millard wanted to make sure whatever truck he was scoping for drives well on hwy. While E you pulled a handgun out of your red hoodie...

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 53s54 seconds ago
Sachak suggests that Smich pulled out a gun eastbound on the 403 that he had hidden in his red hoodie. #TimBosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 46s47 seconds ago
Sachak says Smich then pulled a handgun out of his pocket. Smich says "nope." #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 30s30 seconds ago
"where your hands were at Tim #Bosma house. Dell said, Oh, no. Do you recall that? You said don't worry when Dell said oh no."

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 24s24 seconds ago
Sachak says Smich then said "we're taking this truck" and that Millard said "oh no." He says Smich then said "don't worry."

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 35s36 seconds ago
While east on Alexander Parkway you pulled a handgun out. It was in your red hoodie where your hands were at the #Bosma residence.

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 32s33 seconds ago
Sachak says #Bosma grabbed the gun, there was a struggle and the gun went off. The window was shattered.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 26s27 seconds ago
Sachak says #Bosma then grabbed the gun and it was discharged. Smich says he disagrees with that "100 per cent." #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 17s18 seconds ago
You said "We're going to take this truck." Dell said "Oh no." You said "Don't worry."

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 9s10 seconds ago
Smich then said "we're going to take this truck." And Millard said "oh no!" Sachak suggests. #TimBosma

 

[mimimic]

Sachak says that's why we see the Bosma truck going back on the video. Smich says no. "Because of Dells actions, a lot of people are suffering right now," Smich says.
by Adam Carter 12:28 PM

Sachak says they got back to the field where the truck was, and he followed Millard in the Yukon. Smich again denies that.
by Adam Carter 12:29 PM

"I'm going to suggest the plan was Dell wanted his GMC Yukon out of the field area because he was concerned he'd be caught red handed," Sachak says. Smich says that's not what happened.
by Adam Carter 12:29 PM

yeah he'd get caught...

 

[Inspector_North]

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 7m7 minutes ago
I said what the **** is going on?...And he said 'You're already in it.'."


WOW! MS goes from hyperthymesia for DM's involvement, to amnesia when it's his involvement.

Both stories are lies!

MOO

 

[Jug Up]

FWIW, while I don't necessarily buy the NS/DM version, it is indeed possible that the timestamp is off at Super Sucker. This story, or at least the events pre-Brantford, are plausible.

I mean, who do you believe? They are both on trial for first degree murder for not only TB, but LB. That is more than a coincidence, IMHO.

They are both pieces of garbage.

 

[ILoveDateline]

Can someone please confirm or deny my memory here: was there not a video that showed the truck pull into a parking lot and then the Yukon. It's about 10 minutes shows light cigarettes or flashlights walking around? I cannot find this to save my life but I swear I saw this. Am I crazy? Maybe I dreamt it?

 

[Katpaws]

You're right. Absolutely unbelievable. As is the story of poor frightened, threatened, scared and confused MS, who is also charged with 1st degree murder in LB's death.

Their versions of events remind me of when two characters give different versions of events in TV and it's played up for comedic effect with everything being really exaggerated to support their take on things (like the X-Files episode, Bad Blood, if anyone's familiar). If DM was a good enough guy that his first instinct was to call an ambulance after TB was shot, he also would have been willing to go to police.

 

[RandomName479]

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 10m10 minutes ago
Smich points out that both truck share similar characteristics. #TimBosma

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 9m9 minutes ago
"I'm saying to you, that would be very odd or suspicious for a police officer," Sachak says. #TimBosma #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 9m9 minutes ago
Sachak suggests it would be suspicious if a police officer saw them driving and punched in the plate. #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 9m9 minutes ago
Smich says he thinks that's why Millard told him to follow him. #Bosma

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 10m10 minutes ago
Sachak says the license plate detail is odd because police would immediately notice something was up if they ran the plate. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 9m9 minutes ago
"At that time I did what he told me because I was scared and I was threatened," says Smich. Sachak says changing plates makes no sense.

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 9m9 minutes ago
"You don't think it's a bit odd he would choose to do that? Sachak says. Smich says he was scared and not thinking about it #TimBosma #Bosma

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 9m9 minutes ago
"And people do change the colour of their vehicles." #TimBosma #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 9m9 minutes ago
"I was scared...I felt threatened...I did what he told me to do," Smich says. #Bosma

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 9m9 minutes ago
"Why would the license plate change if there's a dead person in there?" Sachak asks. #Bosma

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 9m9 minutes ago
Sachak suggests it's a horrible plan and Smich should have pointed it out. #TimBosma

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 9m9 minutes ago
Jury on lunch. #TimBosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 9m9 minutes ago
Sachak asks if Smich - asked to follow despite not having a license - said "this is a bad plan." Smich did not.

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 9m9 minutes ago
"Maybe he was trying to use me and set me up," Smich says. "Ahh, the blame the Dell game," Sachak says. #Timbosma #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 9m9 minutes ago
"Blame the Dell game," Sachak groans. "We'll take a lunch." #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 9m9 minutes ago
"Maybe he was trying to use me and set me up..." says Smich. "Ah, playing the Dell game," says Sachak. Justice Goodman orders lunch break.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 9m9 minutes ago
Taking the lunch break. Back at 2:15pm. #Bosma

Can anyone take over after lunch? I have to get some work done

 

[Claroon]

Yes! The "second" Ram bugs me a lot. What are the chances that there was another Ram on that night, in the same timeframe, with running lights, chrome running boards, etc.? I wish Plaxton had included it in the report. I don't think it hurts the Crown's case in any way, so why not address it in the original report?

I feel this point was already clarified, see these old tweets from this page. AND the jury can watch it as many times as they need to, to come to their own conclusion https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2016/03/09/tim-bosma-murder-trial-sees-surveillance-video.html bbm:

2mon
molly hayes@mollyhayes
Now seeing another segment taken at 6:15 (according to time stamp). Again Plaxton agrees vehicle captured here looks similar to #Bosma truck

Mar 9, 15:46
2mon
molly hayes@mollyhayes
But you didn't put that segment in your report. You missed that, Pillay says. Plaxton agrees it was not in his report. #Bosma

2mon
molly hayes@mollyhayes
Pillay suggests that the vehicle in the 6:05 clip could be the same truck seen in the 6:20 clip (original time stamp). Plaxton agrees #Bosma

2mon
Susan Clairmont@susanclairmont
Pillay establishes 6:05 pm vehicle could be same as 6:20 pm vehicle on Super Sucker video (adjust time by 3 hours).

Mar 9, 15:17
2mon
Susan Clairmont@susanclairmont
Pillay says the vehicle caught at 6:05 pm is the #Bosma truck.

Mar 9, 15:14
2mon
molly hayes@mollyhayes
Plaxton agrees with Pillay that he can't say they are not the same vehicle (shared characteristics). #Bosma
Mar 9, 15:13

Mar 9, 15:07
2mon
Susan Clairmont@susanclairmont
Plaxton agrees with Pillay that jurors can watch this video repeatedly to see things for themselves.

 

[DeepWoodsOff]

I find this fascinating. Essentially what we have here is confirmation that both Defenses are agreeing that their clients were involved and were at the scene. The debate now is over whether they were together when Tim was shot or if Dell did it himself. IMO...they were both in the truck when they did it. This was planned well ahead of the actual event. There is enough evidence to show pre-meditation...texts about getting the incinerator ready, taking a gun on a test drive etc. etc. etc. etc. MS' story just sounds too far fetched to me. MOO

My mind has led me to this as my timeline:
They leave Tim's driveway and do indeed drive north on Trinity, past where DM's Yukon was stashed away. This would feel like an actual test drive to Tim..heading north towards the highway. Not only does this support the missing time that we are talking about but it also removes the suggestion that Tim was shot in the very short distance from his driveway to where the Yukon was.
During this test drive, Tim's life was taken. They return to Trinity and Book and MS gets in the Yukon and follows DM. They get the hell out of the area and drive to Brantford where they pull over at the Bobcat dealer to regroup and change plates before heading to the farm. From there time timeline is pretty clear. MOO

Both guilty of 1st degree... MOO

 

[Miranda16]

You're right. Absolutely unbelievable. As is the story of poor frightened, threatened, scared and confused MS, who is also charged with 1st degree murder in LB's death.

A plus their ears would be ringing, making it very difficult to have a discussion I assume. And Dell claims it happened on the 403 where they could have witnesses in other vehicles at any second?

 

[Inspector_North]

Can someone please confirm or deny my memory here: was there not a video that showed the truck pull into a parking lot and then the Yukon. It's about 10 minutes shows light cigarettes or flashlights walking around? I cannot find this to save my life but I swear I saw this. Am I crazy? Maybe I dreamt it?

Not a parking lot, but at the Bobcat dealership. Only time we have seen any kind of activity by DM or MS is at the Bobcat dealership or the hanger.

MOO

 

[Errrr]

It's hard to believe, but at first glance the time/distance assumptions actually do fit the Sachak/Pillay timeline better. But he's not hammering (yet) on that missing ten minutes I've been worried about between Super Sucker and the Bosma's as accused were arriving, so perhaps Smich did testify to something that would cover that seemingly extra time.

I still find this a tough call for truth. AJ had testified that he noticed the chrome running boards on Tim's truck in the media right away because they were unique and attractive. If chrome running boards are in fact a less-than-common feature of that truck there is a compelling case to argue that the solo sightings of the truck were most probably Tim's. What you would have to accept in this instance is that two people independently missed the extra ten minutes when they checked the video time stamp against known time sources. It's hard to pick which event is more likely - highly coincidental truck or two people that rounded up 10 minutes.

Smich does seem to be referencing the times/evidence more to refute NS, like he knows that evidence well, like he's studied it.

If you accept the newly adjusted timeline for the Bosma truck to go north, then south and north again accompanied by the Yukon, then you would have to also adjust the time the Yukon passed earlier before parking in the field. This would fit. Now I think MS has been tailoring his testimony to fit evidence that's been accepted. However, just because all three were in the truck together for a test drive longer than sixty seconds doesn't mean TB was shot at this time. I still think MSs role was to disable him until they reached the farm. If they had killed him at Trinity why wouldn't they have done the plate switch and phone disposal right then?
I think MS has a reason to distance himself from the crime this early in the test drive, because he was complicit in one way or another. It makes no sense to hop out sixty seconds into the test drive. Why come along at all?

 

[Ontario Mom]

Their versions of events remind me of when two characters give different versions of events in TV and it's played up for comedic effect with everything being really exaggerated to support their take on things (like the X-Files episode, Bad Blood, if anyone's familiar). If DM was a good enough guy that his first instinct was to call an ambulance after TB was shot, he also would have been willing to go to police.

What I'd really love to know is this: did DM ever tell anyone this is what happened, or even allude to it, in any way, before this trial?

We do know according to MM, much of what MS has said on the stand is rather consistent with what he told her, 3 years ago. But can the same be said for DM's "oh no" story?

 

[sab_bri]

Perhaps MS decided to clean up his act in Jail after he realized what he had done? After being involved in a murder he had hit rock bottom the reality of actually being part of killing a human being was too much for him to handle, he decided to turn his life around. DM is the same person, he didn't do anything to change who he was at the time of May 6th, 2013. I am tempted to believe MS version of events.. but I just cant bring my self to believe it. I do not know what to believe.