There is clearly enough evidence on MS to build a case in the death of LB. He may be playing the Jester with NS right now but it will be interesting to hear after the LB trial, what we were not allowed to hear in this trial. I think that his comic relief with reference to Walt Disney is completely disrespectful to the Bosma family. He is showing his true colours of the punk that he is. Did he pull the trigger? I am not sure if we will ever know but he isn't someone who I would EVER feel safe having in my neighbourhood.
Bosma Murder Trial 05.19.16 - Day 52
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There is clearly enough evidence on MS to build a case in the death of LB. He may be playing the Jester with NS right now but it will be interesting to hear after the LB trial, what we were not allowed to hear in this trial. I think that his comic relief with reference to Walt Disney is completely disrespectful to the Bosma family. He is showing his true colours of the punk that he is. Did he pull the trigger? I am not sure if we will ever know but he isn't someone who I would EVER feel safe having in my neighbourhood.
Yes, looking forward to those articles and columns.
canadiangirl
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Me too. I especially want to read what Susan Clairmont and Adam Carter have to say.
Alethea Dice
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Yes, he totally turned around the events at the hangar. Last week he said he stripped the truck while DM went to get gas, then he washed it after DM got back. Today he ways he washed it while DM got gas, then they stripped it when he got back. He has made up a convenient story based on the evidence presented in court that he hopes takes him away from the actual murder and the incineration. He had some things not totally covered in his story because he failed to listen to 1/3 of the testimony. He took that make believe story and memorized it. That's why he gets tripped up when things are asked out of chronological order and claims no memory or that he must direct his mind to that before he gives a non-answer. He hasn't learned his story enough to be able to randomly repeat it in any given order.
He has to find a reason why they were at Bobcat so long so he invents changing the plates "with a dime". How strange they would remember to take the plates off the red truck and put them in the Yukon, but then forget a screwdriver.
Convenient for him that DM still had everything but the gun, still had his phone, the truck, the incinerator. But everything connected to MS - the gun, the SIM cards, his hoodie, his FB (except for a brief time when "someone" reactivated it briefly for him while he was in jail) - all of it is gone, gone. I wonder if one of those "less than 10" cell phones with the missing SIM cards was the Lucas Bates phone. Could be wrong, but IIRC, it think that it pinged near Oakville early on the morning of May 6th when TB messaged it, and no one called him back until DM and MS were together again.
Anyone ever consider if MM didn't want him to go on this one "mission" because maybe he told her this one would be different and he was finally going to get that Cadillac? That maybe the celebration she only just remembered before she took the stand, she had confused with MS's happiness after returning home, and before contentedly going to sleep, thinking that would happen now? Just a couple of thoughts.
JMO
littlesauce
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Probably already answered, and I'm not sure of the actual answer, but I can tell you that anytime I have sat in court I've seen both DM and MS look at the jury and smile (only saw MS give a small smile at them today as he was on the stand and they were leaving)
ArianeEmory
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Ok, it had escaped my notice that the LB case is also "direct indictment". I remember the furor over the first DI (for Tim), I must have missed Laura's (I took a long WS break last year), and of course she does not have an unlocked thread.
Am I correct in thinking that implies the Crown's evidence is pretty substantial?
Because that would kind of be the kicker for me. The only way I've gotten to any kind of place of questioning MS's pre-knowledge of the murder was via the possibility that he just got swept up in the LB case because he had her iPad or something.
Direct indictment, if I understand correctly, blows that possibility out of the water.
Alethea Dice
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Thank you. I do remember that now. So, with seemingly so little to help support 1st degree for MS, why do you think they chose not to present that? Any ideas?
I think at the end of the day I believe DM was the shooter because I'm convinced he was the mastermind of this plan but I think MS's version of events is slightly more true than DMs (which was kind of hilarious! Oh no!). But I think Smich was a willing and knowing participant.
Mr Sachak in my opinion has just confronted smich with the truth. It would be interesting to know Smich's reaction to this. Did he do his best poker face and say "nope" over and over again? Smich operating on the "deny till you are blue in the face" defense.
Sounds right to me and Smich just denying till he is blue in the face.
brightii
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So DM ... the same DM who is now suggesting that he wanted to call an ambulance for mortally wounded TB - the same DM is suggesting he said this in a panic to oblivious but treacherous MS whose phone was dead when DM's phone was working? The same DM who minutes later wiped TB's phone - a phone that could have been used to dial 911 if the perps didn't want to or couldn't use their own phones - the same DM who then promptly threw TB's phone out the window - the same DM who then sped directly to his farm with a dead man in the front seat beside him so he could get and load the incinerator - the same DM who then led the way to his hangar to incinerate TB - the same DM who told MS to strip TB's truck and help him destroy as much evidence as possible - the same DM who scooped up CN and hid the truck inside a trailer at his mother's house - the same DM who dropped off a toolbox with a gun(s) inside to his friend at 4 am - the same DM who sent SS a text saying he couldn't imagine what TB's family was going through and wondered if he should return the truck - and the same DM when SS replied to his text that perhaps DM could call the police and say he bought a truck that was "warm" the same DM replied: "what truck?"
Oh no! Oh no ... never, DM.
All MOO.
Oh no! Oh no ... never, DM.
All MOO.
They are going to believe Sachak and discount Smich I would think..
Back in May 2013 when clues were coming out and discussion was going on I was sure a guy 'like' MS was the murderer. MOO
When DM was arrested, I too fell for the rich guy charm and thought 'wow how odd this guy cant really be involved'. My prejudice on a guy like MS for his rapping, shady sort of lifestyle made me join 'the MS pulling the trigger' line of thinking.
I have now gone 100% the opposite direction and feel, I too was duped by DM and his shenanigans. Too many people kept a blind eye to DM and gave him pass after pass. The letters really did it for me on top of all the other overwhelming evidence. To me DM is a total control freak playing his minions with unfulfilled promises. He gives them crums and keeps them hanging on with dreams that 'ONE DAY' they will finally get what was promised. I feel DM was desperate for the truck and he pulled the trigger VERY close to how MS states but I am not totally convinced about all of MS's testimony. JMO
There is still evasion and cover up to some extent but for the most part I think it is sound. I am hoping that the crown can use what we have learned these last four days to get 'some' more of the truth out there. I don't feel 'justice' is served until we get the truth out there at least as much as possible...revenge maybe but not justice. JMO
I find many opportunities where MS could have lied but did not embellish, this makes his story much more believable. He had alot of chances to say he saw the flash or heard the bangs, but he didn't. It is totally plausible with his limited driving experience that he was paying 100% attention on just driving. MOO
I also suspect his lack of driving and unfamiliarity added to his following DM rather than running off to dial 911 as Sachak kept pressing. He was lost out there in the dark and blindly following a set of tail lights for the entire ride to the farm. I do not feel he was getting tripped up at all in questioning, and the only thing that NEVER gets tripped up is the truth. I do feel there is evasion on the loading of the incinerator and the disposal of the gun, both things that could either incriminate MS or get him in more hot water (ie if he loads the incinerator then he gets indignity to a body added to the AATF and 2nd or manslaughter along with theft over 5K, AND if the gun went to MWJ he fears a threat, or the gun was to be made to disappear to avoid evidence for the MWJ trial) JMO
Hopefully DM's team gets it over quick tomorrow morning, I feel for the family and jury, the last four days have been brutal. The crown wont likely start until Tuesday now IMO.
I would also LOVE to know what ELSE he wanted the truck for as MS eluded to before being shut down. I wonder if it had to do with the extra compartments in the trailer SS was building...we will probably never know now.
Great post. Thanks.
Can you give us a reference to your last sentence please?
I've been lurking and watching this case for a while now. As a former Hamiltonian, I was interested when the case broke in the news.
As a former paralegal and Bailiff, these last few weeks, especially this week, have been painful to read. DM's councel hasn't been that awesome, publicly at least, IMO. I'm sure there has been some fantastic legal arguments, behind the scenes, which I hope I get the chance one day to read about. However, this cross has been quite tiring. The very few times that NS has managed to get onto something that might help his client, I feel were somewhat planned in that he wanted a particular answer, but I feel he get there simply though luck. I wonder if NS didn't present a defense because it is possible he is aware that DM is factually guilty (DM told him). Further, he's doing a miserable job in his cross, he doesn't appear to be trying to obtain an aquittal for his client, but rather trying to disprove MS' testimony so as to get a guilty verdict for not only his client and MS also. It's a bit boggling. This weeks cross has brought out what is MS' version of what happened, and I think there is some truth to it. Some parts of it are likely lies, but as for his direct guilt in the murder, I don't think a great case is against him specifically, and that he's been able to show a defence where DM committed the murder solely, and MS councel has managed to even cooborate evidence to support the story (two vehicles). I feel MS is lying about the gun, and it's likely somewhere other than in a forest, and his SIM cards are probably in a landfill or went down the toillet. But, destroying evidence after the fact is accessory after the fact, and not actual murder, but I've been wrong before.
With respect to "who is the trigger man", which is largely MS' defence, It makes sense that DM would be the interested "buyer" and would be the primary tester or driver. If in fact they stopped to pull over and MS was to hop into the Yukon, it is more likely that DM carried on in the truck. Today's story that there was a struggle and all of them were in the vehicle at the same time is another version, but I feel an unlikely one, especially after the evidence of the two vehicles pulling over which coincides with MS' testimony. I don't think hes squeeky clean, but hes trying to be that on the stand.
If MS really wants to make it stick on DM, he would do well to squeek in a reminder or two to the jury that it was DM that wanted the truck, his plan, and he had the body disposal unit ready and waiting. "that DM secretly to himself wanted a truck and wanted the thrill of the kill, and had the plan and the means to do it". The 200 bucks worth of week in the days after? That's called "shut up money". Why didnt MS go to the police? he has a list of minors convictions and he hates the police. Why help DM? because he has the common sense to know that if he went to poilice, with his rap sheet, he would be the prime suspect, not a millionaires son. Plus it's his friend, he was likely in denial and fear of police.
I'm not cheering him on, but MS has a chance at aquittal. However, I expect the crown next week to be MUCH more focussed than DM's completely horrible councel.
That all said, after the cross examine, thanks to NS' exceptionally thorough cross and asking about every single thing imaginable, repeatedly at that - everyhing covered in the cross is fair game in the re-examination of the witness.
MOO!
As a former paralegal and Bailiff, these last few weeks, especially this week, have been painful to read. DM's councel hasn't been that awesome, publicly at least, IMO. I'm sure there has been some fantastic legal arguments, behind the scenes, which I hope I get the chance one day to read about. However, this cross has been quite tiring. The very few times that NS has managed to get onto something that might help his client, I feel were somewhat planned in that he wanted a particular answer, but I feel he get there simply though luck. I wonder if NS didn't present a defense because it is possible he is aware that DM is factually guilty (DM told him). Further, he's doing a miserable job in his cross, he doesn't appear to be trying to obtain an aquittal for his client, but rather trying to disprove MS' testimony so as to get a guilty verdict for not only his client and MS also. It's a bit boggling. This weeks cross has brought out what is MS' version of what happened, and I think there is some truth to it. Some parts of it are likely lies, but as for his direct guilt in the murder, I don't think a great case is against him specifically, and that he's been able to show a defence where DM committed the murder solely, and MS councel has managed to even cooborate evidence to support the story (two vehicles). I feel MS is lying about the gun, and it's likely somewhere other than in a forest, and his SIM cards are probably in a landfill or went down the toillet. But, destroying evidence after the fact is accessory after the fact, and not actual murder, but I've been wrong before.
With respect to "who is the trigger man", which is largely MS' defence, It makes sense that DM would be the interested "buyer" and would be the primary tester or driver. If in fact they stopped to pull over and MS was to hop into the Yukon, it is more likely that DM carried on in the truck. Today's story that there was a struggle and all of them were in the vehicle at the same time is another version, but I feel an unlikely one, especially after the evidence of the two vehicles pulling over which coincides with MS' testimony. I don't think hes squeeky clean, but hes trying to be that on the stand.
If MS really wants to make it stick on DM, he would do well to squeek in a reminder or two to the jury that it was DM that wanted the truck, his plan, and he had the body disposal unit ready and waiting. "that DM secretly to himself wanted a truck and wanted the thrill of the kill, and had the plan and the means to do it". The 200 bucks worth of week in the days after? That's called "shut up money". Why didnt MS go to the police? he has a list of minors convictions and he hates the police. Why help DM? because he has the common sense to know that if he went to poilice, with his rap sheet, he would be the prime suspect, not a millionaires son. Plus it's his friend, he was likely in denial and fear of police.
I'm not cheering him on, but MS has a chance at aquittal. However, I expect the crown next week to be MUCH more focussed than DM's completely horrible councel.
That all said, after the cross examine, thanks to NS' exceptionally thorough cross and asking about every single thing imaginable, repeatedly at that - everyhing covered in the cross is fair game in the re-examination of the witness.
MOO!
ABro
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The crown has to prove that DM and MS committed first degree murder. They do not have to prove exactly where and when. That's a mug's game given there are only two people alive who know the exact circumstances and they have both told very different self-interested stories. The legal experts I've listened to have said there is extremely strong evidence against both of them for first degree murder.
When we see how long the jury's out we'll be able to see if the reaction to the MS testimony seen here was in line with the jury's thinking or not.
A direct indictment is supposed to be about protecting justice/a prosecution in extraordinary circumstances, but it seems like high profile cases get this treatment disproportionately. They're not to be read as slam dunk cases for sure, just should have a substantial likelihood of conviction because you're depriving a defendant of being able to challenge/test the case against them prior to committing them to trial. While apparent strength of evidence is expected, it's not the reason or justification for a DI.
There are a few different reasons why a direct indictment could be ordered:
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=...sg=AFQjCNHPAyHJTLxOzk1YklQsaX0J_Ay0Dg&cad=rja
MrsThreadgoode
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It is very interesting to hear from those of you who have been in the courtroom.
I realize that you are not allowed to share anything that you have seen/heard outside the presence of the jury, but, if you feel comfortable in doing so, I would love to hear your personal impressions, and hope you don't mind my asking this question (also hope it is OK to ask this question)
Re Sachak's cross: in your opinion does he seem more effective in his cross when you are actually in the courtroom, vs the impressions that only reading the tweets give us?
Thank you very much.
At this point MS is playing a game of F You with DM and his lies are pure aggression directed at DM. MS knows he is going down with DM and this is just a way of rubbing DM's nose in it. Could care less about doing better for himself and trying to do something altruistic as far as the victims family goes. He is pathetic.
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