Bosma Murder Trial 06.2.16 - Day 58 - Closing Arguments Day 3

[TOR]

Could attempt to counter several of your points, but I think the Crown put it as straightforward as it needs to be:

"Helpers or those who encourage a murder may be as guilty as someone who causes a murder, Letich says. "If there was one shooter, does that mean the other non-shooter is not guilty? Not at all."
by Adam Carter 9:53 AM

"To knowingly help a murderer do it, or encouraging a murder ... is enough."
by Adam Carter 9:54 AM

"We are not required to prove who did what."
by Adam Carter 9:56 AM

Leitch says the issue is, are you satisfied they were both in this together.
by Adam Carter 9:56 AM

"If you are spending your time trying to decide who did what, you are missing the point."
by Adam Carter 9:57 AM

Leitch says both are guilty either as being a party to the crime, or as the shooter.
by Adam Carter 9:59 AM"

Right - what I'm saying is I believe MS story which means I dont believe he knew the murder was going to take place, therefore MS "wasn't in it together" with DM, didn't encourage it nor helped the murder take place. He happened to pull up to the scene of the crime. He cleaned up as an accessory after the fact - similar to CN and MB, who also cleaned prints off the trailer and spent time concocting stories together over copious amounts of wine. To me, MS is as guilty as CN.

 

[Ontario Mom]

The idea that MS would take off and get away from DM if in fact he wasn't in on it from the beginning, is interesting.

Most people assume there are 2 reactions to extreme fear: fight or flight. There is actually a 3rd very common reaction: freeze.

It's seen in the cases of battered women ALL the time. Not that I'm comparing MS to a battered woman, but in those cases people constantly ask the same thing: "why didn't she just leave as soon as she had the chance?" There are usually layers and layers of answers to that, but in many cases where someone is genuinely in fear of another person instead of doing something, they do nothing except try to rationalize it and stay.

Now I don't know really what to think of Smich's story about why we didn't take off and get away from Millard but the fact that people actually do react this way is part of what makes his story have a ring of truth to it. The Crown today though did do a pretty good job of blowing that story out of the water, especially with all the contact initiated by Smich after the night of May 6th.

 

[sleuther76]

Right - what I'm saying is I believe MS story which means I dont believe he knew the murder was going to take place, therefore MS "wasn't in it together" with DM, didn't encourage it nor helped the murder take place. He happened to pull up to the scene of the crime. He cleaned up as an accessory after the fact - similar to CN and MB, who also cleaned prints off the trailer and spent time concocting stories together over copious amounts of wine. To me, MS is as guilty as CN.

And let's be honest here AATF isn't an easy jail sentence ... I think it can go up to 20 years. It wasn't like he came out and said he was innocent. He admitted to a very serious crime.

 

[kaen]

Most people assume there are 2 reactions to extreme fear: fight or flight. There is actually a 3rd very common reaction: freeze.
.

This is a good point. I think that he knew it could happen, though. There are so many things--the eliminator ---that don't make me think he was clueless. Not admitting where the gun is. I believe he knew something was going to happen and it was a matter of when, not if.

 

[Claroon]

Fence sitters, not interested in a debate. Just want to suggest:

1, What if MS is a con-artist and you've been conned?

2. What if he was the one with the ideas?

Example:
Nov 25 ?? Smich texts Millard: "have you ordered those things yet?" Day 36: Harrison testimony
Nov 25 ?? Smich texts Millard: "i got a way better idea...talk to me tmrw...for that one. And we can run 35 tmrw." Day 36: Harrison testimony

Nov 25 ?? Millard texts Smich: "I like new ideas." Day 54: Crown cross of Smich

Nov 25 ?? Smich texts Millard: "dog. Simple. Remember these things." Day 54: Crown cross of Smich

Nov 25 ?? Millard texts Smich: "K tomoro then." Day 54: Crown cross of Smich
Nov 25 ?? Smich texts Millard: "maybe my idea isn't that good. I thought further. We lose too much...lol."

3. What if he was a volitile killer and got a thrill from it and you are overlooking that because you feel sorry for him?:

Example:

"Never lonely, it's jut me & my chrome piece, I'm holding the cards I was dealt... I'm never folding. #
"The one & only .... SAY10, it's no fony [sic]. My 380 iz NO stranger. My .380 is no stranger, when I'm angry you're in danger.""

Here's how he was around friends:

Brendan: Daly says that Smich got angry when he asked him about Bosma.
You told police, that when that happened, Mark makes you nervous," Pillay says. Daly agrees.
"You felt intimidated?" Pillay asks. "Yes," Daly says.

Marlena: "It was at times horrific, right?" Sachak says. Meneses agrees. "He was abusive, wasn't he? He hit you?" She says yes.


Arthur: "Mark described Arthur as his *****," Pillay says. Daly responds yes"

Just a few things to ponder.

 

[canadiangirl]

Why do people assume because you find there is a reasonable doubt that you must feel sorry for someone? Feeling sorry for someone doesn't have anything to do with the evidence. This is why there is a jury of your peers.

 

[NashBridges2]

for me I felt the same about the Casey Anthony trial

That verdict gutted me to the core, I didn't sleep for weeks. We were actually in Orlando when the verdict came down, the shock and disgust from everyone was everywhere.

 

[sleuther76]

This is a good point. I think that he knew it could happen, though. There are so many things--the eliminator ---that don't make me think he was clueless. Not admitting where the gun is. I believe he knew something was going to happen and it was a matter of when, not if.

Knowing it could happen is not premeditation ... at least I don't believe. Knowing someone is capable of something (i.e. has a gun, incinerator), does not mean you were part of a specific plan.

 

[kaen]

Knowing it could happen is not premeditation ... at least I don't believe. Knowing someone is capable of something (i.e. has a gun, incinerator), does not mean you were part of a specific plan.

I think they did plan. I think the gun and the eliminator were part of a plan. Was that plan supposed to happen that night, with that man? I think they both knew they needed to account for what would happen if there was resistance, a problem, or a judgment call needed to be made. It is what they got all of the contingencies (gun, eliminator, change of clothes) for. Each one made a plan for different reasons-- DM b/c he is egotistical, sociopathic, MS b/c he was taken by the wealth of DM, this was a next step in making money. At the end of the day, from my listening to the trial via twitter, I believe this was a plan that they both made--one may have put in motion that night, but the other fell in line and they carried out the cover-up together.

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

Having heard all the evidence, I still don't think MS is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

It's difficult because I think about TB, his family and the pain they are going through and that makes me really want to make a decision that feels like justice is served. It won't bring him back, but it might offer temporary relief or a feeling of getting them (MS, DM) back for all the pain that was caused by their stupidity. I read their texts and see the life they were living and I can see how easy it is to be inclined to think they are better off locked up. Or they deserve it...

But If I were a juror, Im not sure I would be able to make the decision to put someone away for life based on the lack of evidence around MS.

- His story around the events the night of the murder line up. It makes sense with the bobcat video footage (vs lack of evidence in field where Crown suggested murder took place) and also explains the lack of GSR or blood in the Yukon.
- DM was seen wearing satchel that was found in DM's washing machine with GSR or blood on it, which further shows MS story to be accurate
- DM continued cleaning up with help of CN after MS was no longer involved, he parked the car at his mom's home and put the truck's key on his key ring with all his other possessions like a prize or keepsake. This is what serial killers do - collect keepsakes from their victims which continues to make me sick thinking about it. This again shows MS story to be most accurate (DM desperate, goes for the kill "Im keeping it", and keeps the truck and goes on about life like nothing happened - truly deranged)
- DM tried to set him up as proven in the letters where he tampers with evidence/witnesses and speaks to concocting a story based on disclosure (I think this was the most damning evidence to show MS was right about how sick in the head DM truly was. If the amazing work of the police hadn't uncovered this, I think the trial would have ended up very different)

In terms of the circumstantial character evidence about MS:
- The "amnesia" around gun: There's simply so much scientific research that shows traumatic experiences and pot usage both significantly affect the brain's ability to create memories. TD is right - he could have lied and said he tossed it in a lake, but he didnt. He stuck to his story under intense pressure by people much smarter than him. I also can't help to speculate though whether he was scared for his life because of MWJ - but that's speculation so let's not get into that.
- Why he stayed and helped clean up: Over drinks with my neighbors, we were talking about this. 4 out of 5 in the group admitted that while it's impossible to assume how you'd react in a situation until you are in it (hello: look at judging parents when a young 20-something to becoming a parent and the "rules" are out the window! LOL like "I'll never be like my mom"). If we were hypothetically in MS shoes with a best friend or loved one who just did something like this, we probably would have helped in some way and possibly would not have called police. Not to mention being on drugs, having a criminal record and being under duress. This may also explain why so many witnesses (friends, family) all seemed to have known something but didnt say anything. If we get off of our soap boxes for a second and think about it... I don't know how I would truly react in that same situation.
- Why he continued contact with DM: Google Stokholm syndrome. There's a lot of scientific evidence that loving the abuser or person who created your traumatic experience is a coping mechanism the brain creates as an evolutionary mechanism.
- Why he didnt go to police after: You've just helped cover up a murder. You're going to go to the police and turn yourself and your squeaky clean psychotic millionaire friend (who you suspect would turn on you and frame you) in to the police? Yeah right.
- The texts: There was an actual bbq that week they were inviting girls to... I venture you to look at your texts messages over the past 2 months and see if there's anything that could be spun to look like you are up to no good. What did you mean about the box in the basement you asked your wife to get? etc etc

I know I'm going to get a lot of attacks for saying this because I'm sensing my opinion is unpopular, but I just don't think MS is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. I wouldn't be able to put MS away for life based on the evidence that's been presented and I think the jury needs to really think critically, not emotionally, about the reaction their decisions will cause.

I believed bits and pieces of what MS testified to, but I truly believe that the vast majority of his testimony was simply a concoction based upon all the discovery he had seen, and the evidence/testimony that was presented prior to his taking the stand. Too many "I can't remembers", etc., to be believable, therefore, for me, I can't give his story very much weight at all, when compared to all the other evidence, the purchase of the incinerator, and extremely telling, damning text messages, destroying evidence, cleanup, etc.

They were bonded together to complete a specific mission -- before, during and after.

Of course, only my personal conclusion, but I have spent a considerable amount of time, examination and reasoning in getting there, and it most definitely was not based upon emotion.

I am confident that what Mr. Leitch stated in his closing remarks today is as close to the entire truth as one can possibly get, given all the unknowns that DM and MS have created.

I thought by the sounds of Susan Clairmont's tweets that the Crown's close would be published in its entirety, but it hasn't been yet. I would love for everyone to have the opportunity to read it completely.

MOO






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[MrsThreadgoode]

Adrian Humphreys from the National Post has just put a video on YouTube entitled Prosecution's Closing Address.

https://youtu.be/JmGpGWFX180


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[toom]

You have a right to think what you want.

I tend to respect those in authority over me (governing authorities such as LE), and look to the professionals for wisdom. It is merely their place to present evidence which they have. They have also given their opinion and that is what I trust personally--the Crown's opinion. I don't have to agree with every detail as I think they mixed a few up, but overall, I agree their opinion matches a ton of evidence. I'm not there in the depth of it as they are so I defer to them.

I do agree with the crown in this particular instance, but it's literally their job to be of the opinion that whomever is charged with a crime actually committed it. If you ever somehow end up not screened out of jury duty please don't just defer to the crown's predetermined opinion.

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

That verdict gutted me to the core, I didn't sleep for weeks. We were actually in Orlando when the verdict came down, the shock and disgust from everyone was everywhere.

Yes, that certainly was a shocker, wasn't it? Never in a million years would I have predicted that outcome. I don't think those jurors spent much time thinking critically in that case. Perhaps even more shocking than the OJ case verdict was.


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[THXGuru]

To those who believe there is some reasonable doubt on behalf of MS.

Let me remind you that:

-he has 6 or 7 priors before this murder charge

-he held a grade 10 education at the time of the murder

-he selectively did not remember certain things about the case

-he called out several witnesses and claimed they were lying

-he buried the murder weapon

-he can't remember where he buried the murder weapon

-he had a chance to go to the police

-he helped clean up and destroy evidence

-he was happy the next morning

The list goes on and on and on.....

He is guilty of 1st Degree murder. Do doubt.

 

[THXGuru]

Something that really stuck with me today, was how Leitch really tied the 2 of them together, working as a team, through the whole thing. Was it 68 times they contacted each other in the 3 days after the murder and that's not counting the hours and hours they were together afterwards, cleaning and burning stuff. But mostly, it dawned on me about the gun. MS said he was worried DM was trying to frame him and that's why he buried the gun. The gun is the ONLY piece of evidence that could have cleared MS and yet, it's just gone gone gone.

I don't know what else he could have done, he put them together like Bonnie and Clyde, salt and pepper, chips and dip.... They were in this together, from start to finish.

I'm curious as to how having the gun would've cleared MS? First degree murder is premeditation and forcible confinement. With or without the gun, based on the consensus here, those incriminating texts still would've existed between both the accused. Proving MS was in on the plan. Both prints would be on that gun. Doesn't matter who fired the kill shot. They were in this together. So I'm not seeing how this is the ONLY piece of evidence for an acquittal?

First off, if you did not commit the crime, the murder weapon would/could/might have DNA on it from the person who in fact did the crime.

Second, burying the weapon does not exactly make you look good if you were to in fact say you were scared, did not do it, were afraid of being framed.

 

[brightii]

Tony Leitch. WOW! He delivered the most persuasive, organized and compelling close of all three ... By leaps and bounds!

I was out all day until late this evening and when I got home I began reading the thread to catch up. Big lump in my throat when it was reported TL cleared his throat and was emotional. Bless his beautiful heart! And thank goodness for his beautiful mind that analyzed every detail of this complex case to expose the demented intentions and atrocious actions of both accused. He and Fraser and all the Crown team have shown incredible stamina, dedication, competence and integrity throughout. They have worked together tirelessly all these years to get to this point of the trial where today TL seized the reins, and expertly guided by evidence, he exquisitely expressed and explained in his final summation to the jury the reason both accused must be found guilty of first degree murder of Tim Bosma.

It's very unfortunate that DM and MS will never know the deep satisfaction that comes from finding their true potential and fulfilling it by working together within the law for the greater good. Instead of choosing to live on the right side of the law they carelessly calculated and chose to kill another human being and by doing so they also destroyed themselves and any hope of a fulfilling future. The Crown team by contrast will surely reap their just rewards for their efforts on behalf of the victim, Tim Bosma and their admirable achievement is as precious as it priceless!

It's taken hours to read here tonight (this morning) and now I'm exhausted so I'm off to bed. I will sleep well though because it's clear to me justice for Tim Bosma and his family is much closer, and I believe wholeheartedly that the verdicts will soon confirm it. TL's closing address was a magnificent success and well worth staying up into the wee hours!

Sweet dreams WSers.

All MOO.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Fence sitters, not interested in a debate. Just want to suggest:

1, What if MS is a con-artist and you've been conned?

2. What if he was the one with the ideas?

Example:
Nov 25 ?? Smich texts Millard: "have you ordered those things yet?" Day 36: Harrison testimony
Nov 25 ?? Smich texts Millard: "i got a way better idea...talk to me tmrw...for that one. And we can run 35 tmrw." Day 36: Harrison testimony

Nov 25 ?? Millard texts Smich: "I like new ideas." Day 54: Crown cross of Smich

Nov 25 ?? Smich texts Millard: "dog. Simple. Remember these things." Day 54: Crown cross of Smich

Nov 25 ?? Millard texts Smich: "K tomoro then." Day 54: Crown cross of Smich
Nov 25 ?? Smich texts Millard: "maybe my idea isn't that good. I thought further. We lose too much...lol."

3. What if he was a volitile killer and got a thrill from it and you are overlooking that because you feel sorry for him?:

Example:

"Never lonely, it's jut me & my chrome piece, I'm holding the cards I was dealt... I'm never folding. #
"The one & only .... SAY10, it's no fony [sic]. My 380 iz NO stranger. My .380 is no stranger, when I'm angry you're in danger.""

Here's how he was around friends:

Brendan: Daly says that Smich got angry when he asked him about Bosma.
You told police, that when that happened, Mark makes you nervous," Pillay says. Daly agrees.
"You felt intimidated?" Pillay asks. "Yes," Daly says.

Marlena: "It was at times horrific, right?" Sachak says. Meneses agrees. "He was abusive, wasn't he? He hit you?" She says yes.


Arthur: "Mark described Arthur as his *****," Pillay says. Daly responds yes"

Just a few things to ponder.

All good points and most I have considered myself. But I wanted to point out, I'm not a "fence sitter" because I feel sorry for MS. Not even close. I believe I've made it abundantly clear that on May 6, 2013 he involved himself in a truly heinous crime. There is nothing to feel sorry for him about in my opinion. Even IF he didn't know Millard was going to shoot a man, Smich did nothing in 3 years to come forward and tell anyone what happened. Nothing.

My only concern is the evidence the Crown has against him. For me personally, it's not as compelling as the evidence they have against Millard. It's that simple.

 

[andreww]

So, the hose...

For probably the hundredth time, nobody but Millard knows for sure, but giving what was going on in his life at that point in time it's safe to say it wasn't a deck. It really doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out though, either he washed the ashes down the drain or he made an attempt to clean the bloody seats. Not sure what else it could be? The cops know it's an incomplete clue as well. We don't know what he was doing but it likely was no good. So the crown included it and left the jury to wonder about it.


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[Ontario Mom]

To those who believe there is some reasonable doubt on behalf of MS.

Let me remind you that:

-he has 6 or 7 priors before this murder charge (indeed, and zero history of violent criminal charges before this one - LB's trial notwithstanding)

-he held a grade 10 education at the time of the murder (so does my husband, and to the best of my knowledge, he's never killed anyone)

-he selectively did not remember certain things about the case (likely lying to save his butt, but possibly doesn't remember some things)

-he called out several witnesses and claimed they were lying (many were, we all know that)

-he buried the murder weapon (not likely, but made it disappear all the same)

-he can't remember where he buried the murder weapon (see above)

-he had a chance to go to the police (yep, and didn't, like a genuine criminal in CYA mode)

-he helped clean up and destroy evidence (indeed, and admitted it)

-he was happy the next morning (according to MM, who was either telling the truth, or not)

The list goes on and on and on.....

He is guilty of 1st Degree murder. Do doubt.

All of those things you listed do not equal evidence to make a man guilty of 1st degree murder. The Crown wants to prove to the jury beyond all reasonable doubt that him and Millard planned not only a truck theft but a murder, and they did it together, with each other's full knowledge. They did a phenomenal job on proving the premeditated truck theft plan, but the evidence against Smich for the premeditated murder plan? I'm just not sure they did enough.

 

[andreww]

All of those things you listed do not equal evidence to make a man guilty of 1st degree murder. The Crown wants to prove to the jury beyond all reasonable doubt that him and Millard planned not only a truck theft but a murder, and they did it together, with each other's full knowledge. They did a phenomenal job on proving the premeditated truck theft plan, but the evidence against Smich for the premeditated murder plan? I'm just not sure they did enough.

I disagree, in fact I say there is no evidence that they didn't plan the murder together. The fact that poor lil Smichy followed a lunatic, out of his mind, killer back to his deserted farm, then locked the gate behind, tells me all I need to know about his state of mind. He, and anybody else, would have gotten the hell out of there and notified police. He would have known that going with Millard was not only a risk to his life but was also putting him at risk of some very serious charges.


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