Bosma Murder Trial 06.2.16 - Day 58 - Closing Arguments Day 3

[Redwing]

I lived through the OJ trial too, and still remember hearing the verdict on the radio at lunchtime..... it was shocking for sure! A bunch of us just looked at each other incredulously..... did that really just happen???? Perhaps OJ being a celebrity had some impact on the verdict... who knows.

This crime happened sooooo close to home, and I sincerely hope the jury gets it right this time.

for me I felt the same about the Casey Anthony trial

 

[leafs_fan93]

Because she knew he had gone on a mission and was worried. She's a young girl and worried.

And DM made a comment to AM the next day about MM always worrying too much. I don't think her being worried was out of the ordinary.

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

Not only is it possible, it is highly likely that MS (in the person of his lawyers) did exactly that.. I would bet a sizable sum on that having taken place, if I were inclined to bet at all; I think it's almost a foregone conclusion.

But the Crown would have had no compelling reason to accept such a deal. They save money by trying the two accused together on the same charges, so keeping costs down was not a factor, and they have some prospect of conviction (not certainty) based on the evidence, or they would not have been able to get a direct indictment. The optics of plea resolution agreements in high-profile cases almost always look bad to the public, and they certainly wanted to avoid that (shades of "the deal with the devil," etc. etc.)

But it's not true that what the accused says, goes, as far as his defense is concerned. He (or she) can insist on taking the stand, against his counsel's advice, but he cannot control what questions the lawyer asks him while he's on the stand, and he can't make a speech according to his own desires. His lawyer will usually not know what details of the client's "story" are true or not, but he will not knowingly facilitate the client getting on the stand to tell a pack of known (to the lawyer) lies or falsehoods. If a compulsive liar insists on taking the stand, his lawyer can circumscribe the possibilities by simply restricting the questions he asks so that any flights of perjured fancy are limited in scope.

Why not tell the Crown the "true story"? Well, in this case, we will never know what might have happened (and I'm not prejudging whether MS's story is true in parts or not), but AIDWYC can reel off a stream of people who did variations on exactly that and got years in the slammer (unjustly) for their cooperation.

Plea resolution agreements are commonplace because they help the wheels of justice grind more efficiently and when properly handled are fair to all parties, and allow the courts to focus on more critical cases. They are much less appropriate where heinous crimes, like this one and some others we could mention, are involved. In such cases justice must not only be done, it must be very publicly seen to be done.

But there can not be any justice for Tim Bosma. No restitution, no penalty, no sentence will ever undo the harm done, or give back what was taken away. The most that can be hoped for is that those responsible can never again inflict such harm on another individual or family.

Knowing these two I'm sure they both offered to roll over on the other one for a lesser charge through their lawyers.

 

[canadiangirl]

Something that really stuck with me today, was how Leitch really tied the 2 of them together, working as a team, through the whole thing. Was it 68 times they contacted each other in the 3 days after the murder and that's not counting the hours and hours they were together afterwards, cleaning and burning stuff. But mostly, it dawned on me about the gun. MS said he was worried DM was trying to frame him and that's why he buried the gun. The gun is the ONLY piece of evidence that could have cleared MS and yet, it's just gone gone gone.

I don't know what else he could have done, he put them together like Bonnie and Clyde, salt and pepper, chips and dip.... They were in this together, from start to finish.

I'm curious as to how having the gun would've cleared MS? First degree murder is premeditation and forcible confinement. With or without the gun, based on the consensus here, those incriminating texts still would've existed between both the accused. Proving MS was in on the plan. Both prints would be on that gun. Doesn't matter who fired the kill shot. They were in this together. So I'm not seeing how this is the ONLY piece of evidence for an acquittal?

 

[Jug Up]

But it's not true that what the accused says, goes, as far as his defense is concerned. He (or she) can insist on taking the stand, against his counsel's advice, but he cannot control what questions the lawyer asks him while he's on the stand, and he can't make a speech according to his own desires. His lawyer will usually not know what details of the client's "story" are true or not, but he will not knowingly facilitate the client getting on the stand to tell a pack of known (to the lawyer) lies or falsehoods. If a compulsive liar insists on taking the stand, his lawyer can circumscribe the possibilities by simply restricting the questions he asks so that any flights of perjured fancy are limited in scope.

Well said, and just for clarity, when I suggested "what he says goes", I only meant in relative terms when it comes to the client/solicitor relationship. (i.e. a lawyer can advise his client not to take the stand, or to accept a plea bargain, but ultimately it is the client's decision).

 

[swedie]

Mr. Leitch did a fantastic job today in his closing to put everything into perspective, aligning it with the evidence IMO. It was a major plus for him to explain to the jurors it doesn't matter who pulled the trigger murdering Tim. He methodically proved DM and MS worked together throughout, equally responsible for Tim's demise, therefore both should pay the price...25 years and no chance of parole for 25 years.

After we get the facts in LB's and WM's cases I have my doubts these two disgusting will ever see life outside of prison ever again.

Thank you Mr. Leitch and all the professionals for the excellent and hard work in seeking justice for Tim and his loved ones and society as a whole. And thank you for all the WS members who posted tweets throughout the last 58 days of the trial. To those WS "die hards" who stuck around posting and sleuthing for over three years, you are greatly appreciated in keeping Tim's name out there with your relentlessness pursuit of justice for him and his loved ones. We wanting nothing but justice for Tim, justice for the two vilest forms of evil the devil led down the Bosma's laneway the night of May 6, 2013. We weathered many storms together here on WS but by keeping our common sense and logic in check and the evidence in the forefront we shone through the brightest . For those who sat on the fence dangling their legs on the opposing side, or sat on the opposite side of the fence, with you few, you gave us "die hards" all that more reason to dig our heels in and keep this case and Tim's name in the forefront and alive. By the numerous around and around we go, you made us delve deeper into sleuthing out facts, coming up with logical theories and many times prevailing. Let the truth be known, the MSM was right on the money with their reports. To the numerous reporters who covered Tim's case, a huge thanks you all of you for giving us information to work with. Then we have the fantastic WS mods; thank you so kindly Sillybilly, Bessie and Coldpizza for the numerous voluntary hours you people spend of your free time monitoring Tim's and other forums and putting up with a lot...BS?! Is it ok to say that hahaha. Tricia thank you for giving and allowing us such a site to play armchair detectives on and putting up with the many difficulties that arise.

Personally I stuck it out over the three plus years in the name of justice for the many victims who have been affected by such a senseless murder of three innocent people all because two men with warped, sick, minds decided they needed to thrill themselves by committing unthinkable crimes. Also because I did not want to see attention to this case die away, but more than anything I want those responsible for murdering Tim to pay the ultimate price for their pure selfishness and evilness. I never doubted for a second that justice would not be served for Tim. You know when you have that gut feeling? I've had it all along...justice will be served for Tim, Laura and Wayne. In about a week, I guess I will know if once again I should continue to follow my gut instinct. It's never served me wrong yet. ALL MOO.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 9h9 hours ago
Leitch says both men hope the jury will have trouble deciding who the shooter was, and will find one or both not guilty.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes
He says he will outline some legal principles.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes
He says anyone who encourages a murder may be as guilty as the shooter.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes
He gives the example of a husband hiring someone to kill his wife. "He is as guilty as the shooter," he says.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes
"A person can not encourage or decide to help and then say 'I didn't shoot.'" He says.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes
One finger on the trigger does not mean only one person is guilty.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes
Leitch suggests if they believe beyond a reasonable doubt that one was a shooter and one was an accomplice, they are to find them guilty.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes
"If you are spending your time deciding who did what, you are missing the point," he says.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes
And that a handgun was used--brought by one of them. "You don't bring a gun to a scope-and-steal mission. You bring a gun to kill."

 

[MsSherlock]

This, exactly. An innocent man, would not sit in jail for 3 years, without a police interrogation, interview, etc. He kept quiet until he knew what he was up against, then he removed himself from every piece of the story that would have got him in trouble.

My take on it is that DM and MS were a team, even after DM was arrested- but DM initiated the "falling out" when DP told the media that he didn't want to get into the "framing aspect" and that things would become obvious after other arrests were made. I wonder if MS saw that news clip and put two and two together, realizing very early on in the investigation that DM was ready to hang him out to dry. Their bromance went downhill from there and certainly reached critical condition with the letters. I can't imagine the look on MS's face when he saw the letters in the disclosure package.

IMHO, MS went on the stand for payback and a slim chance that his story would fly with the Jury- what did he have to lose? Within all of his lies there were probably some truths, but does it matter? Both of the D's efforts to cast the blame on each other did nothing more than implicate their clients. The Crown did a brilliant job at proving just how planned the whole thing was. The cross examination of MS by NS was exhausting and annoying and MS probably enjoyed every jab at DM that he could get in- the ultimate payback. MS mentioned the letters several times during his testimony. It wouldn't surprise me if MS concocted the whole story just to show DM that he could play the "set up" game as well as DM could. DM betrayed MS right from the start and MS, having absolutely nothing to lose, retaliated by testifying. "Why don't you ask Mr. Walt Disney?" Ouch MOO

 

[Ontario Mom]

BBM

LOL! For me too! Gosh "Trial By Twitter" paints a scary picture in my imagination, lol.

MOO


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I know, it sounds goofy but I just meant being informed in 140 character snippits as opposed to actually hearing what was said, how it was said, facial expressions, tone of voice, body language, etc. I know I've gone on about that before but the fact is, communication is so much more than verbal (written or spoken). Not to mention all the legal arguments that some attendees were fortunate enough to hear, that couldn't be reported on.

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

Mr. Leitch did a fantastic job today in his closing to put everything into perspective, aligning it with the evidence IMO. It was a major plus for him to explain to the jurors it doesn't matter who pulled the trigger murdering Tim. He methodically proved DM and MS worked together throughout, equally responsible for Tim's demise, therefore both should pay the price...25 years and no chance of parole for 25 years.

After we get the facts in LB's and WM's cases I have my doubts these two disgusting will ever see life outside of prison ever again.

Thank you Mr. Leitch and all the professionals for the excellent and hard work in seeking justice for Tim and his loved ones and society as a whole. And thank you for all the WS members who posted tweets throughout the last 58 days of the trial. To those WS "die hards" who stuck around posting and sleuthing for over three years, you are greatly appreciated in keeping Tim's name out there with your relentlessness pursuit of justice for him and his loved ones. We wanting nothing but justice for Tim, justice for the two vilest forms of evil the devil led down the Bosma's laneway the night of May 6, 2013. We weathered many storms together here on WS but by keeping our common sense and logic in check and the evidence in the forefront we shone through the brightest . For those who sat on the fence dangling their legs on the opposing side, or sat on the opposite side of the fence, with you few, you gave us "die hards" all that more reason to dig our heels in and keep this case and Tim's name in the forefront and alive. By the numerous around and around we go, you made us delve deeper into sleuthing out facts, coming up with logical theories and many times prevailing. Let the truth be known, the MSM was right on the money with their reports. To the numerous reporters who covered Tim's case, a huge thanks you all of you for giving us information to work with. Then we have the fantastic WS mods; thank you so kindly Sillybilly, Bessie and Coldpizza for the numerous voluntary hours you people spend of your free time monitoring Tim's and other forums and putting up with a lot...BS?! Is it ok to say that hahaha. Tricia thank you for giving and allowing us such a site to play armchair detectives on and putting up with the many difficulties that arise.

Personally I stuck it out over the three plus years in the name of justice for the many victims who have been affected by such a senseless murder of three innocent people all because two men with warped, sick, minds decided they needed to thrill themselves by committing unthinkable crimes. Also because I did not want to see attention to this case die away, but more than anything I want those responsible for murdering Tim to pay the ultimate price for their pure selfishness and evilness. I never doubted for a second that justice would not be served for Tim. You know when you have that gut feeling? I've had it all along...justice will be served for Tim, Laura and Wayne. In about a week, I guess I will know if once again I should continue to follow my gut instinct. It's never served me wrong yet. ALL MOO.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 9h9 hours ago
Leitch says both men hope the jury will have trouble deciding who the shooter was, and will find one or both not guilty.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes
He says he will outline some legal principles.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes
He says anyone who encourages a murder may be as guilty as the shooter.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes
He gives the example of a husband hiring someone to kill his wife. "He is as guilty as the shooter," he says.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes
"A person can not encourage or decide to help and then say 'I didn't shoot.'" He says.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes
One finger on the trigger does not mean only one person is guilty.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes
Leitch suggests if they believe beyond a reasonable doubt that one was a shooter and one was an accomplice, they are to find them guilty.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes
"If you are spending your time deciding who did what, you are missing the point," he says.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes
And that a handgun was used--brought by one of them. "You don't bring a gun to a scope-and-steal mission. You bring a gun to kill."

Thank you for this excellent post ...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[leafs_fan93]

This is the main reason I conclude MS’s story is complete and utter BS.

Lawyers can advise their clients but, it the end, the accused has the final say. What he wants, goes. The lawyer is tasked with getting his client exonerated or, at the very least, get them the best possible deal. This is why we have plea bargains.

So, if MS’s version of events is true, why not try to get a plea bargain long before this trial started? If this is indeed the truth, and MS will turn on DM and plead guilty to AATF for the burning and cover-up, isn’t this the best possible outcome for MS, and more than he could have hoped for? And do you not think the Crown would have jumped at that deal, or at least considered it? Or is it possible TD tried to get a plea bargain and was shot down by the Crown, because they had so much evidence on the 1DM charge?

My take? They didn’t try to plea this out because they didn’t know the witnesses would be as damning as they were and, after all the evidence was in, MS decided to take the stand and conveniently tell his story based on the evidence already submitted. He knew DM had already hung himself out to dry, so I think as the trial went along, MS decided if DM refused to take the stand, he was going to do the “right thing”, so to speak, and tell his “story”. And I mean that literally.


Otherwise, why not tell the Crown this story two years ago and take the first-degree murder verdict out of the jury’s hands?

MS didn’t know the blow-by-blow evidence and couldn’t plan out his work of fiction until he knew the full details.

That is why I think MS's story is believable to so many. Because he crafted it to fit PERFECTLY with all the evidence submitted, it almost seemed plausible.

I posted this previously in the trial, but I wouldn't be surprised to find out that TD and MS approached the crown looking for a deal, and the Crown sent them packing, as they felt they has plenty of evidence to convict him of first degree, and didn't need to make a deal.

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

I know, it sounds goofy but I just meant being informed in 140 character snippits as opposed to actually hearing what was said, how it was said, facial expressions, tone of voice, body language, etc. I know I've gone on about that before but the fact is, communication is so much more than verbal (written or spoken). Not to mention all the legal arguments that some attendees were fortunate enough to hear, that couldn't be reported on.

This is so true ... I understand what you mean.

By the way I was just joking about the "Trial By Twitter", just sort of imagining it as a futuristic way of trying a case, vs trial by jury, lol ... Pretty scary thought.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Thank you for this excellent post ...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Yes, swedie- one of the best things about the trial I have read today. Thank you.

 

[Just4TB]

Here is a thought that I can't shake.
If MS is found guilty of 1st degree murder, I believe there is a very strong possibility, that a 25 year sentence will in fact be a life extension for him.
The road he was on before the arrest, is a road that leads to an early death. Either getting whacked in a gang hit, short changing a drug deal, or if not that, the drugs, cigarettes and booze would have likely ended his life before 45.
In the 3 years since his arrest, he has cleaned up, improved himself. This sentence might be a blessing in disguise for MS. Now that he has physically cleaned up, he can spend the next 19 years working on cleaning his heart and soul.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Was the date of the deer incineration made available?

Would this not have to have been after the beginning of September? SS did the 6 hour test burn first and didn't declare it was working "great" until August 13th. September 5th at 5:59pm was when they took the video of the Eliminator at the hangar, attached to the Yukon. And that was the same day, September 5th, that DM texted MS with the plan to pick up MM, get some things at Home Depot and take the Eliminator to the barn. I thought that it was never seen at the hangar again once it was taken to the farm. (Until May 6th of course.)

 

[Typhoo1961]

I'm curious as to how having the gun would've cleared MS? First degree murder is premeditation and forcible confinement. With or without the gun, based on the consensus here, those incriminating texts still would've existed between both the accused. Proving MS was in on the plan. Both prints would be on that gun. Doesn't matter who fired the kill shot. They were in this together. So I'm not seeing how this is the ONLY piece of evidence for an acquittal?

I think DM wiped the gun before locking it in that toolbox and handing it to MS via friends.

 

[swedie]

Here is a thought that I can't shake.
If MS is found guilty of 1st degree murder, I believe there is a very strong possibility, that a 25 year sentence will in fact be a life extension for him.
The road he was on before the arrest, is a road that leads to an early death. Either getting whacked in a gang hit, short changing a drug deal, or if not that, the drugs, cigarettes and booze would have likely ended his life before 45.
In the 3 years since his arrest, he has cleaned up, improved himself. This sentence might be a blessing in disguise for MS. Now that he has physically cleaned up, he can spend the next 19 years working on cleaning his heart and soul.

Good post Just4TB, and you must have much faith in our jail/prison system. You seem very optimistic where I see him going on a decline should he be found guilty of murder. It's well known drugs are fairly accessible in jails and prisons and what better way for either of them to enjoy their years behind bars as "lifers." They will fit in the the majority and take what they can get when opportunity arises...IF they aren't already getting the odd bit here and there kwim. DM was looking pretty sickly there for awhile. Perhaps his stash of coffee is getting him drug exchanges. I wonder how DM has been feeling lately in the tummy trouble area? JMO.

 

[Errrr]

I agree 100% with your thoughts on this. The compelling part was the walking it through step by step. I think some of the communication was not as the Crown said but, darn it, the back and forth between the two of them through me into the both guilty camp.

I found their collaboration to contact Iisho about the gun particularly damning.

 

[canadiangirl]

I think DM wiped the gun before locking it in that toolbox and handing it to MS via friends.

I guess I'd be hopeful the wiping job was as good as the truck. And if MS opened the toolbox and handled it, his prints everywhere too.

Did we ever find out what happened to the actual toolbox?

 

[Baaasil]

I didn't need any convincing that MS was part of the plan all along, but the one thing that the Crown said today that I hadn't really considered was how TD avoided asking witnesses the questions they needed to ask to prove MS's story. That's not an oversight or being a bad lawyer. It's because he knew asking about those things would just end up with the witness refuting the question and making the point more strongly.

One other random note, I feel like DM's lawyers get a bad rap here. They come off looking worse because they have much less to work with. The odds of DM getting out of first degree murder, especially once the letters were found, are pretty tough to beat. The points they make are weak, precisely because they're working against a extremely strong case. It's hard to make a strong closing argument when your client pretty obviously did the crime.

 

[billandrew]

I guess I'd be hopeful the wiping job was as good as the truck. And if MS opened the toolbox and handled it, his prints everywhere too.

Did we ever find out what happened to the actual toolbox?

The toolbox was seized from Smich's bedroom at Montrose and shown in the court on multiple occasions in the trial.

Smich said the gun was wrapped in cloth and fell out of the cloth upon removing it from the toolbox. It is possible that he was careful enough not to handle it directly with his hands/fingers, but who knows what he really did with it. The only sure thing is that it's long gone.