Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #1

[Ontario Mom]

If we're assuming the mystery 3rd party went off to the closest Tim Hortons to the Bosma place, then came back in time to be captured on video following Tim's truck shortly after it left the Bosma residence, that's an 8 minute drive time, round trip, which doesn't include traffic, red lights, or any kind of line-up at the drive thru or consideration for a walk-in order.

 

[flipflop]

We don't know for sure who DM or TB were speaking to, the prosecution is speculating on that IMO.

LE would know after getting their hands on phone records, so no speculating is necessary IMO.

 

[Errrr]

Uh, well, they did use a gun and cause damage and a mess.

Do you think that would have been their intention?

 

[hopingforjustice]

plus I thought it was already noted that he had already pre arranged for TB's truck to be painted

Painting it would be his way of taking the heat off--buying some time IMO. While the world is looking for a black truck, he would have a blue or green or red one and no one would bother him. But AJ put a crimp in those plans. JMO

 

[Tamarind]

Just wanting to recap here. Witness AJ, claims the truck and trailer went missing sometime overnight on Thursday May 9th/10th. The neighbour of MB , (FC) claims the truck and trailer arrived on Wednesday evening May 8th during the Leafs/Bruins game. Neighbours at Maple Gate Court claim DM and some friends were working on the outside area of the house in the evening of May 8th. So this would mean that the witness AJ is not remembering too well. If his memory is a day off, then he is saying that the truck and trailer disappeared by the Thursday morning and not the Friday morning. If he didnt call LE until the Thursday then he didnt call them until the truck and trailer were gone.

This may explain why RP was asking AJ if he could have done that on the Weds ( ? taking pictures).

 

[Sillybilly]

plus I thought it was already noted that he had already pre arranged for TB's truck to be painted

According to ABro, the Crown's opening statement indicated it was within days of the murder, but it isn't specified whether it was before or after.

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/2016/02/tim-bosma-trial-the-crowns-opening-statement.html

 

[swedie]

Regarding the burner phone. From almost the first day of this case, LE have determined the burner phone was linked to DM. Apparently this finding still hasn't changed in almost three years of their investigation. According to LE's findings MS had his own cell phone (first point). LE have the solid evidence which will eventually come out during the trial. They gave the jury their word and I know they will keep their word. MOO.

Points to consider:
*Through cell phone records the Crown intends to prove both accused were using their cell phones in the area of this man's residence, the other seller of the Dodge Diesel truck, in North Toronto in this time period on that day.

*LE has obtained records from both the burner phone and DM's phone and have determined they ping from the same towers/location around the same time.

*On Saturday May 4th, Tim Bosma was phoned by a person the Crown intends to prove was Dellen Millard.

*It is not apparent that in his dealings with Tim Bosma the caller provided his name, nonetheless the Crown intends to prove the identity of the caller as Dellen Millard.

*LE announced shortly after DM's arrest the burner phone was linked to DM.

* De Boer said he remembered the click of a flip phone being closed by the man putting it back into his pocket.

*SB also saw DM and on a cell phone as he walked up her laneway. She saw TB and DM end call at the same time.

*DM was the one looking for a truck, therefore it only makes sense he was doing the calling to people who advertised their trucks to arranging meetings.

*Evan is DM's middle. Strong indication DM is the one who purchased the phone. I've had friend for many decades and I couldn't tell you what their middle names are. I have high doubts MS knew DM's middle name. In my opinion, this isn't information men usually share with one another. Two men selling their trucks received calls from someone claiming to be Evan, Avan, Ewan.

*When the bogus phone was purchase and registered three months prior, it was purchased in Etobicoke. DM is from Etobicoke.

There's likely many more indication the burner phone was DM's but I'll leave it at that. We will let the Crown prove it was DM's burner phone.
ALL MOO.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Just wanting to recap here. Witness AJ, claims the truck and trailer went missing sometime overnight on Thursday May 9th/10th. The neighbour of MB , (FC) claims the truck and trailer arrived on Wednesday evening May 8th during the Leafs/Bruins game. Neighbours at Maple Gate Court claim DM and some friends were working on the outside area of the house in the evening of May 8th. So this would mean that the witness AJ is not remembering too well. If his memory is a day off, then he is saying that the truck and trailer disappeared by the Thursday morning and not the Friday morning. If he didnt call LE until the Thursday then he didnt call them until the truck and trailer were gone.

This may explain why RP was asking AJ if he could have done that on the Weds ( ? taking pictures).

Why would you now take what the newspapers print as gospel, and disregard the testimony in court?

AJ has time-stamped pictures of the truck. I am sure that he is sure which day it was that the truck was moved.

 

[Sillybilly]

Just wanting to recap here. Witness AJ, claims the truck and trailer went missing sometime overnight on Thursday May 9th/10th. The neighbour of MB , (FC) claims the truck and trailer arrived on Wednesday evening May 8th during the Leafs/Bruins game. Neighbours at Maple Gate Court claim DM and some friends were working on the outside area of the house in the evening of May 8th. So this would mean that the witness AJ is not remembering too well. If his memory is a day off, then he is saying that the truck and trailer disappeared by the Thursday morning and not the Friday morning. If he didnt call LE until the Thursday then he didnt call them until the truck and trailer were gone.

This may explain why RP was asking AJ if he could have done that on the Weds ( ? taking pictures).

Noudga will testify that she helped move the truck and trailer to MB's on the night of May 9.

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/2016/02/tim-bosma-trial-the-crowns-opening-statement.html

Mr. Millard’s girlfriend will testify in this trial. She is currently charged with Accessory After the Fact to Murder for her role in events after the murder of Tim Bosma. Her trial on this charge is pending. In her statement to police she said, among other things, she was with Mr. Millard when he towed the trailer and truck to Mr. Millard’s mother’s in Kleinburg on May 9th

This would seem to corroborate AJ's testimony.

I recall back in very early threads, we had extensive discussion wrt variations of when different neighbours claimed to have seen the truck/trailer arriving at MB's.

 

[MsSherlock]

Just wanting to recap here. Witness AJ, claims the truck and trailer went missing sometime overnight on Thursday May 9th/10th. The neighbour of MB , (FC) claims the truck and trailer arrived on Wednesday evening May 8th during the Leafs/Bruins game. Neighbours at Maple Gate Court claim DM and some friends were working on the outside area of the house in the evening of May 8th. So this would mean that the witness AJ is not remembering too well. If his memory is a day off, then he is saying that the truck and trailer disappeared by the Thursday morning and not the Friday morning. If he didnt call LE until the Thursday then he didnt call them until the truck and trailer were gone.

This may explain why RP was asking AJ if he could have done that on the Weds ( ? taking pictures).

IMO, this neighbours report was a bit more creditable because it was tied into a one time event and not one of the hockey games- remembering that there was a hockey game on almost every night that week.

"FC spotted a large trailer parked in his neighbour’s driveway when he returned home Thursday night from an engagement in Toronto."

http://www.yorkregion.com/news-stor...rs-shocked-by-discovery-of-tim-bosma-s-truck/

 

[Tamarind]

Noudga will testify that she helped move the truck and trailer to MB's on the night of May 9.

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/2016/02/tim-bosma-trial-the-crowns-opening-statement.html



This would seem to corroborate AJ's testimony.

I recall back in very early threads, we had extensive discussion wrt variations of when different neighbours claimed to have seen the truck/trailer arriving at MB's.

Yes the night of May 9th could be the early hours of Thursday. The Leafs game was on the 8th (Weds). This would mean that one possibly two neighbours of MB are not being truthful if AJ testimony is true. IMO

The Leafs game was on the Wednesday evening May 8th. There was no Leafs game on the 9th. The next Leafs game was on the 10th.

http://mapleleafs.nhl.com/club/gallery.htm?pg=20&location=/photos#browse



'Bob Dimas, who also lives on Tinsmith, said he saw someone bringing the black trailer in on Wednesday night, while Dimas and his son were watching the Maple Leafs game. Then by Sunday, “there were more police cars on the street than there were neighbourhood cars.”'
http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...kes_mothers_day_plea_for_his_safe_return.html

 

[MsSherlock]

And DP's early references to DM and his business. Wonder where he got his info from?

"Millard's Mississauga lawyer, Deepak Paradkar, said his client runs a "successful" business and is "completely in shock" by the charges."

"According to Paradakar, Millardair performed aircraft maintenance with several staff at the Waterloo hangar, which was modernized after the company moved from a Pearson airport hangar in 2012."

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2875353-lawyer-says-bosma-suspect-millard-is-completely-in-shock-/

 

[Tamarind]

Why would you now take what the newspapers print as gospel, and disregard the testimony in court?

AJ has time-stamped pictures of the truck. I am sure that he is sure which day it was that the truck was moved.

Well lets say that Mr Dimas is a witness at some point. If he repeats that he was watching the Leafs game when trailer arrived..there is a problem. Thats all I am saying HTH

 

[swedie]

A medical examiner would talk directly to the next of kin (remembering MB was not legal next of kin). The coroner system is different. Anyone?

Yes, an ME would speak of suicide or murder, in trying to determine the mental state of the person around the time of death. A less than honest person could mislead an ME intentionally.

I don't know the role and extent of involvement of the police in that case, which is separate from this one.

Again remembering that the media is a filter, it seems I'm reading between the lines in finding the "bleed" a cold and calculating way of explaining the death of one's father. It's kind of like saying a person died because their heart stopped working. Everyone dies when their heart stops working, but it explains nothing of how and why they died.

A bleed can have many causes.

Wayne Millard, a former airline pilot who steered the family’s business into aircraft repair, died on Nov. 29, just as he prepared to open the new hangar. His death was deemed a suicide at the time, but the coroner’s investigation remained open six months later and Toronto police are re-investigating the case.

Wayne’s remains were cremated. Dellen and his mother – who was divorced from his father but was on good terms with him – held a memorial reception at a restaurant north of Toronto in mid-December.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...y-related-to-two-other-cases/article12190515/

A Coroner's investigation does not determine whether someone is to blame for the death or whether criminal charges should be laid. Following the investigation, however, the Coroner may make recommendations in their report to help avoid similar deaths in the future. It may take up to six months to complete a Coroner's report, including any autopsy report.

The Coroner's report is not automatically sent to the deceased person's family unless they request it. The request must be in writing to the Office of the Chief Coroner. If an insurance company requires a "Proof of Death" or "Physician's Statement of Death" form to be completed, and a Coroner was involved after the death, these forms can be forwarded to the Chief Coroner as well. However, the Chief Coroner will have to wait until the investigating Coroner's report is finished before they can complete these forms. The address and phone number for the Coroner's Office can be found in the directory at the back of this booklet.

Inquests
An inquest has a similar function to an investigation. However, an inquest is conducted more like a court hearing, and is generally open to the public. The Coroner calls witnesses to give testimony under oath. A jury decides the same issues that an investigation does, and makes recommendations for avoiding similar deaths in the future. Like an investigation, an inquest does not decide criminal or civil responsibility for a death.

http://www.plea.org/legal_resources/?a=249&cat=28&pcat=4

 

[Sillybilly]

from:
http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...ssing_man_is_dead_body_burned_police_say.html

A neighbour who lives next door to the Tinsmith Crt. address where the trailer was found said it first appeared in the driveway late Thursday. The home belongs to Millard’s mother, Madeleine Burns, who is listed as the sole owner.

“It was suspicious in that it was parked right up against the garage,” said Frank Cianfarani, who called the police to have them check out the trailer.

 

[Tamarind]

from:
http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...ssing_man_is_dead_body_burned_police_say.html

I guess they better hope FC is a witness and not BD :dunno:

 

[Kamille]

from:

A neighbour who lives next door to the Tinsmith Crt. address where the trailer was found said it first appeared in the driveway late Thursday. The home belongs to Millard’s mother, Madeleine Burns, who is listed as the sole owner.

“It was suspicious in that it was parked right up against the garage,” said Frank Cianfarani, who called the police to have them check out the trailer.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...ssing_man_is_dead_body_burned_police_say.html

That can't be...apparently Mr Dimas saw the trailer (or lights depending on which news source you choose to look at) on Wednesday night during the Maple Leafs game. Do you think he got up off the couch and went to the window or outside to check out what the lights were? Or maybe just assumed that whatever lights he saw during that game must have been the trailer when the media spoke to him on Sunday as the street was full of LE? Or he was actually mistaken about the night as witnesses are notorious for doing? Can he even see MB's driveway from his home? We have no idea. If he didn't get a date stamped picture or video, I'm going with the guy who did and testified to it, and the date, under oath in a court of law.

MOO

 

[Sillybilly]

I guess they better hope FC is a witness and not BD :dunno:

Who knows. I doubt the Crown will call BD, but the defence may choose to. Not sure what that would accomplish though when you've got 3 other witnesses and time-stamped pics that all say May 9.

 

[canadiangirl]

It would be an injustice to have a jury that already thinks that they are guilty before they hear the evidence. Good reason for a mistrial or appeal. We don't have to treat them as if they are innocent until proven guilty, but I'm pretty sure that is the duty of the jury.

Honestly I'm still in complete shock with all the media exposure and coverage with this case how they were ever able to find a completely impartial jury. And held in Hamilton no less. Boggles my mind

 

[swedie]

Judge scolds people who skipped Bosma jury selection
But for those who outright failed to show, Goodman was adamant they would not be let off the hook. He issued a bench warrant for each person, ordering each to appear in front of him.

At Friday's mini-hearing, the normally good-natured Goodman spoke sternly, sharply pronouncing each syllable as he stressed the importance of jury duty: a "cornerstone of civilized democracy" and a "serious civic responsibility."

In the end, none of the no-shows were found in contempt of court.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6265521-judge-scolds-people-who-skipped-bosma-jury-selection/