Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #1

[SnooperDuper]

This man was scared. He said he didn't know what DM had gotten himself into. I think there is a bigger picture here.

It's hard to imagine him looking at that truck and not imagining the worst, if he saw it when it was still shot up and being sanitized. So why feel the same concern for TB as he did for DM? Why would the truck be in DM's hangar undergoing cleanup if DM wasn't involved? Why concern for DM if so?

Something's unexplained here. We'll find out, or not, at the trial.

If you're buddy is facing life in prison, it's natural to feel concerned.

 

[Ontario Mom]

The fact that no one else has been arrested or charged or even named as being the 3rd person at the Bosma residence that night, after the rather lengthy, meticulous and exhaustive investigation that was done, leads me to believe there was never a 3rd person to begin with.

Based on everything I've read I believe it happened just like this:

They leave the house, DM driving, Tim in the front passenger seat, MS in the back. They turn left out of the driveway and head down the road. Before they ever get into an area where there is a video camera - they pull over and one of them gets in the other vehicle - the very same one they arrived in, parked and walked from to the Bosma house. Whether before or after Tim was shot is hard to say, but I suspect after. They get back on the road and at some point the video camera catches both vehicles.

Which begs the question: wouldn't that same vehicle be caught on that same video camera going toward the Bosma residence? I suspect it would have, and for all we know, maybe it did and maybe that evidence has yet to be disclosed?

 

[matou]

Who knows? Maybe Millard and Smich showed up on ebikes? LOL

 

[Tamarind]

It's as simple as this: DM had control of the vehicle and could have stopped it and then shot. I am sure the last thing TB would expect is for DM to whip out a gun.

We don't know who was in control of what when shot happened.

No, residue would end up upwards and to the right (towards the back seat) and forwards (and as it dispersed, upwards) so the residue would have ended up where it was found: in the driver and passenger front seat area.

Not in my opinion

We're not talking hand-to-hand combat here, we're talking about DM with a gun vs. the unarmed, very surprised TB.

How do we know there was no hand to hand combat?

Yes, there are two valid places where DM could have hidden the gun.

And valid places MS could have hidden a gun IMO. Also if a third party, who is to say where gun came from?

 

[MsSherlock]

Agreed, but they allegedly went through downtown Brantford. Why not head straight north and bypass Brantford and the 403 altogether? I think the point being made is, why Brantford?

IMO, DM was very familiar with the Brantford Airport-I'm also very familiar with Ancaster, Brantford, the Airport and all the routes to Cambridge and roads to Waterloo International. An easy route from Brantford Airport to Cambridge is Hwy 24. But, it can get confusing if you're travelling on Hwy 53(Colborne St) in Brantford because they have another road aka Regional 24. IMHO, DM knew the area from the Brantford Airport to Ayr but not Ancaster to the Airport. Instead of taking Hwy 24 that would have swung him to the South down to the Airport, DM made a right turn on RR 24 and headed North- easy mistake to make. The good news was that RR 24 runs right into Hwy 24 (Paris Road). Once he was there, he knew where he was. That's my hypothesis. I don't think this route was planned. The irony of this route is that it goes right by Brantford Hospital. If TB had been injured, they could have just dropped him in that vicinity. MOO

 

[Alethea Dice]

That is correct but LE never said they had video evidence of a 3rd person or anything more than the SUV following TB's truck. MOO

Yes, I realize that. As I remember, the video was bad enough that they called in experts to determine even what kind of vehicle it was that followed. They only said that they had video of a vehicle following and that they were actively searching for an unknown third suspect.

He said police have seized the SUV, driven by the third suspect, and are examining evidence taken from the vehicle.

“We continue to seek out the third person and we will continue to go where the evidence leads us,” Kinsella said. “We encourage that individual to turn themselves in.”

http://m.hamiltonnews.com/news-story/5421433-oakville-man-second-suspect-to-face-first-degree-murder-charge-in-bosma-slaying

All I have seen since that is when Kavanaugh said they did not want to have tunnel vision and were not sure if there was a third person or not and were continuing to investigate all possibilities.

Depending where exactly that video was taken, it can be hard to imagine that one person could be in two different vehicles at the same time or to appear so quickly in one after leaving the driveway in the other. That could be the reason LE thought there was a third suspect and I hope it better explains my reasoning. Whether they found other evidence to show there was no third person, or whether they just couldn't find anything leading to if and who that person was, won't be known until and if it is presented as evidence at trial.

 

[MsSherlock]

Yes, I realize that. As I remember, the video was bad enough that they called in experts to determine even what kind of vehicle it was that followed. They only said that they had video of a vehicle following and that they were actively searching for an unknown third suspect.



http://m.hamiltonnews.com/news-story/5421433-oakville-man-second-suspect-to-face-first-degree-murder-charge-in-bosma-slaying

All I have seen since that is when Kavanaugh said they did not want to have tunnel vision and were not sure if there was a third person or not and were continuing to investigate all possibilities.

Depending where exactly that video was taken, it can be hard to imagine that one person could be in two different vehicles at the same time or to appear so quickly in one after leaving the driveway in the other. That could be the reason LE thought there was a third suspect and I hope it better explains my reasoning. Whether they found other evidence to show there was no third person, or whether they just couldn't find anything leading to if and who that person was, won't be known until and if it is presented as evidence at trial.

Yes, I can understand why LE thought there had to be a 3rd person- tunnel vision that DM and MS got dropped off. Once they reviewed the CCTV at the corner of 53 and Trinity they may have realized there were only 2. At 9:30 on a Monday night, (especially when there was a hockey game on) Hwy 53 is not a very busy road. The traffic on Trinity would be few and far between as well, so examining the CCTV wouldn't involve looking at very much traffic at all. In a half hour time period, I'd be surprised if there were more than a dozen cars travelling thru those lights down Trinity. IMO, aside for the lack of daylight, identifying the Yukon as it went to and from TB's would have been pretty easy. MOO

 

[swedie]

I wonder if DM checked his own video surveillance and saw that AJ took the photos?

Also: DM's statement when LE wanted to search his hangar "I thought you would want to." is sooooo cocky. Really??? You're gonna actually say this to police? SMH

Just seems to DM's way. I imagine at this time DM felt he was done for. Grabbed his man purse that may have contained the gun and burner phone and his Yukon keys, slung it over his shoulder preparing himself for fight or flight. Detectives had a look around and left, but DM had just flashed some valuable evidence in their faces...THE MAN PURSE hahaha.

Igor told detectives the tall dude with the ambition tattoo, who drove his truck was carrying a man purse. Why did DM pick up his man purse? Did he think one of the detective might have grabbed it and looked inside finding important evidence? Did he feel naked without his man purse, or perhaps DM considered pulling his gun on the two officers had they spotted evidence in the hangar, or should they have told DM he was under arrest? Maybe he realized he was no match for the two detective because they carried guns also.

Once they left, I bet DM thought he was a genius and had once again gotten away with murder. So yeah, it would have come as a bit of a shock to him (his arrogance) when two hours later, he was rear ended and found himself surrounded by more than a dozen people, plain-clothed officers with protective vests, pointing guns at him. MOO.

Millard was fetching financial records for the company when two Hamilton police investigators arrived and started asking questions: His name. His acquaintances. Whether he knew about Bosma’s disappearance. And about the tattoo on his left wrist that reads “ambition.”
It was almost friendly, he recalls. A short while later, they thanked him and left.
Two hours later, while he was driving home, Millard says he was rear-ended as he idled at a red light.
When he got out of the car, he saw more than a dozen people — plain-clothed officers with protective vests — pointing guns at him.

“I was in shock. I can’t pinpoint the feelings,” he says. “It was another world.”

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...didnt_kill_tim_bosma_exclusive_interview.html

 

[Snowglobe]

“I’d say he died of a sudden bleed in his brain, which is what the coroner told me.”

Well, isn't that clever. Manner of death and cause of death are different things.

 

[MsSherlock]

“I was in shock. I can’t pinpoint the feelings,” he says. “It was another world.”[/I]

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...didnt_kill_tim_bosma_exclusive_interview.html

As soon as DM gets lawyered up, DM calls his mom and quickly signs over all his properties on Sunday May 11th. Sure is interesting that less than 48 hours after he was arrested he felt it necessary to look after some money with mommy. Now that we're getting a clearer picture about his business, it's safe to say that DM was the CEO of pretty well nothing. He had no viable business going on. He really only had 1 guy on the payroll. So, exactly why did he need to get those properties in safe keeping and as a lot of us witnessed, quickly liquidated. Maple Gate was sold and closed almost instantly. That's always struck me as strange, because if DM was actually "wealthy" he would certainly have enough money in the bank to cover his day to day expenses. A millionaire like DM would certainly have enough money to retain DP- wouldn't he? At that time, DP was talking about DM's bail hearing and DM was only charged with auto theft and forcible confinement- wasn't he? Really makes me think DM was up to his neck with financial issues. Just for info, all of DM's aircraft have now been sold as well. MOO

 

[matou]

Do Coroners usually speak to the family members of suspected suicide cases? or homicide?

“I’d say he died of a sudden bleed in his brain, which is what the coroner told me.”

Well, isn't that clever. Manner of death and cause of death are different things.

 

[Snowglobe]

Do Coroners usually speak to the family members of suspected suicide cases? or homicide?

A medical examiner would talk directly to the next of kin (remembering MB was not legal next of kin). The coroner system is different. Anyone?

Yes, an ME would speak of suicide or murder, in trying to determine the mental state of the person around the time of death. A less than honest person could mislead an ME intentionally.

I don't know the role and extent of involvement of the police in that case, which is separate from this one.

Again remembering that the media is a filter, it seems I'm reading between the lines in finding the "bleed" a cold and calculating way of explaining the death of one's father. It's kind of like saying a person died because their heart stopped working. Everyone dies when their heart stops working, but it explains nothing of how and why they died.

A bleed can have many causes.

 

[swedie]

I imagine if the window was shattered they would have to roll it down to hide that...then they would have to move TB into the back to hide him, because that window was open.

Unless the window shatter and fell out. Otherwise they could have pulled over to knock it out so it wouldn't attract attention in case they drove through populated areas. It would have also been covered in blood most definitely. It would be interesting to know if the glass from the window was found in the area where TB's cell phone was found or if they ever found it. One of the perps could have reclined the passenger seat after shooting TB to keep him out of view. I doubt they would struggle to move him anywhere out in the open and take the chance of being seen. JMO.

From TB's house to Kemira, it's approximately a 20 minute drive. Perhaps DM pulled over near Kemira to remove the window as it is a secluded area, to chat with MS (who was following in the Yukon), about their next plan of action and route, or to "relieve" themselves. Did one of them have TB's phone in their pockets and it fell out? Did DM go to slip TB's cell phone into his purse after shutting it off, he missed the opening and it fell onto the ground without him realizing? Personally I'm not so sure about TB's phone being tossed. I think however it got there, it was by accident. DM was dumb, but not dumb enough to just toss TB's cell phone. Why not destroy it by running over it or smashing in on the asphalt somewhere? I can understand not wanting to keep it on them in case it was being tracked, but just to toss it, doesn't make sense. Then again there is so much we know about DM that doesn't make sense. Maybe because it's hard to figure out psychopaths?
ALL MOO.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Yes, I can understand why LE thought there had to be a 3rd person- tunnel vision that DM and MS got dropped off. Once they reviewed the CCTV at the corner of 53 and Trinity they may have realized there were only 2. At 9:30 on a Monday night, (especially when there was a hockey game on) Hwy 53 is not a very busy road. The traffic on Trinity would be few and far between as well, so examining the CCTV wouldn't involve looking at very much traffic at all. In a half hour time period, I'd be surprised if there were more than a dozen cars travelling thru those lights down Trinity. IMO, aside for the lack of daylight, identifying the Yukon as it went to and from TB's would have been pretty easy. MOO

Does the camera at that corner show the inside of the vehicle to see how many people are in it as it goes through the intersection? If so, does it show clear enough to see who the person or people are?

 

[Alethea Dice]

Just seems to DM's way. I imagine at this time DM felt he was done for. Grabbed his man purse that may have contained the gun and burner phone and his Yukon keys, slung it over his shoulder preparing himself for fight or flight. Detectives had a look around and left, but DM had just flashed some valuable evidence in their faces...THE MAN PURSE hahaha.

Igor told detectives the tall dude with the ambition tattoo, who drove his truck was carrying a man purse. Why did DM pick up his man purse? Did he think one of the detective might have grabbed it and looked inside finding important evidence? Did he feel naked without his man purse, or perhaps DM considered pulling his gun on the two officers had they spotted evidence in the hangar, or should they have told DM he was under arrest? Maybe he realized he was no match for the two detective because they carried guns also.

Once they left, I bet DM thought he was a genius and had once again gotten away with murder. So yeah, it would have come as a bit of a shock to him (his arrogance) when two hours later, he was rear ended and found himself surrounded by more than a dozen people, plain-clothed officers with protective vests, pointing guns at him. MOO.

Millard was fetching financial records for the company when two Hamilton police investigators arrived and started asking questions: His name. His acquaintances. Whether he knew about Bosma’s disappearance. And about the tattoo on his left wrist that reads “ambition.”
It was almost friendly, he recalls. A short while later, they thanked him and left.
Two hours later, while he was driving home, Millard says he was rear-ended as he idled at a red light.
When he got out of the car, he saw more than a dozen people — plain-clothed officers with protective vests — pointing guns at him.

“I was in shock. I can’t pinpoint the feelings,” he says. “It was another world.”

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...didnt_kill_tim_bosma_exclusive_interview.html

If DM had the gun and the burner phone in his possession that Friday morning, and was under surveillance from then until he was arrested, how and when did he get the gun to MS to bury and why haven't we heard that LE have the burner phone?

 

[hopingforjustice]

As soon as DM gets lawyered up, DM calls his mom and quickly signs over all his properties on Sunday May 11th. Sure is interesting that less than 48 hours after he was arrested he felt it necessary to look after some money with mommy. Now that we're getting a clearer picture about his business, it's safe to say that DM was the CEO of pretty well nothing. He had no viable business going on. He really only had 1 guy on the payroll. So, exactly why did he need to get those properties in safe keeping and as a lot of us witnessed, quickly liquidated. Maple Gate was sold and closed almost instantly. That's always struck me as strange, because if DM was actually "wealthy" he would certainly have enough money in the bank to cover his day to day expenses. A millionaire like DM would certainly have enough money to retain DP- wouldn't he? At that time, DP was talking about DM's bail hearing and DM was only charged with auto theft and forcible confinement- wasn't he? Really makes me think DM was up to his neck with financial issues. Just for info, all of DM's aircraft have now been sold as well. MOO

All staff was laid of after WM died. I would be highly surprised if SS was known to Revenue Canada as a current employee.

 

[matou]

Pay the "staff" with stolen vehicles that get rebuilt and sold off?

 

[matou]

from an older article, MAY 29, 2013:

One company that made regular deliveries to the hangar tells CTV News the deliveries suddenly stopped the day after Bosma’s disappearance.
There was no further contact between the company and Millard Air until last week, when the employee the company always dealt with showed up and said it would be business as usual beginning this week.
The company says it was skeptical about that claim, and locked the cash-only account in Dellen Millard’s name over the weekend.

http://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/activity-at-millard-air-hangar-not-what-airport-boss-expected-1.1302652

 

[Gumshew]

As soon as DM gets lawyered up, DM calls his mom and quickly signs over all his properties on Sunday May 11th. Sure is interesting that less than 48 hours after he was arrested he felt it necessary to look after some money with mommy. Now that we're getting a clearer picture about his business, it's safe to say that DM was the CEO of pretty well nothing. He had no viable business going on. He really only had 1 guy on the payroll. So, exactly why did he need to get those properties in safe keeping and as a lot of us witnessed, quickly liquidated. Maple Gate was sold and closed almost instantly. That's always struck me as strange, because if DM was actually "wealthy" he would certainly have enough money in the bank to cover his day to day expenses. A millionaire like DM would certainly have enough money to retain DP- wouldn't he? At that time, DP was talking about DM's bail hearing and DM was only charged with auto theft and forcible confinement- wasn't he? Really makes me think DM was up to his neck with financial issues. Just for info, all of DM's aircraft have now been sold as well. MOO

His legal fees must be astronomical. It might be for this reason that he is liquidating things. His lawyer is not of the cheap variety.

He might be worth a couple of million or more but it might not be liquid.

 

[Tamarind]

As soon as DM gets lawyered up, DM calls his mom and quickly signs over all his properties on Sunday May 11th. Sure is interesting that less than 48 hours after he was arrested he felt it necessary to look after some money with mommy. Now that we're getting a clearer picture about his business, it's safe to say that DM was the CEO of pretty well nothing. He had no viable business going on. He really only had 1 guy on the payroll. So, exactly why did he need to get those properties in safe keeping and as a lot of us witnessed, quickly liquidated. Maple Gate was sold and closed almost instantly. That's always struck me as strange, because if DM was actually "wealthy" he would certainly have enough money in the bank to cover his day to day expenses. A millionaire like DM would certainly have enough money to retain DP- wouldn't he? At that time, DP was talking about DM's bail hearing and DM was only charged with auto theft and forcible confinement- wasn't he? Really makes me think DM was up to his neck with financial issues. Just for info, all of DM's aircraft have now been sold as well. MOO

He was probably advised by his lawyer to transfer properties to his mothers care. He was obviously advised he would be there for some time and needed to take care of things. Properties have bills that go with them and he couldn't very well do that from jail. Real Estate investments are a business and he seemed to be doing ok with that.

I am thinking his mother may have advised him also to get rid of everything and not have added responsibility of properties. After all she was the one having to take care of them. I'd do the same thing. I wouldn't want to be left dealing with all that. Much easier to deal with cash and accounts. JMO