Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #1

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Just to set the record straight, SS is not a POI nor has he been charged in this case.
 
MsSherlock said:
Third party and a "drop off vehicle". What LE had was a picture of a vehicle following TB's truck, which was later determined to be DM's Yukon. They never said they had video evidence of a third party or any other vehicle other than the Yukon. I don't want to get the facts confused here. IMHO, early on in the investigation, they knew that 2 men had been at TB's- they knew they had arrived on foot, so they assumed they had gotten dropped off. IMHO, once they took a look at the traffic cams they realized that there wasn't a "drop off" vehicle- only an "arrival vehicle". This was very early in TB's disappearance. So to clarify, IMHO, LE have never said they have "video evidence" of a 3rd party or "drop off" vehicle. MOO
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What they said was that both men got into TB's truck and drove out the driveway and that they had video of a vehicle (the Yukon) following them when they left. Hence why they were originally looking for a third suspect.
 
jash said:
I'm not sure about when he first met each of those guys but based on social media/public posts, DM was friends with AM since at least March 2009, was SS's "boss" since at least December 2010, and had MS over to his Etobicoke house around September 2011.
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Thanks, Jash. I actually meant the other car crew - the ones who allegedly also sell drugs and guns. Do you have any info for them?
 
This was familiar territory, at least for DM, who owned property in Ayr and may have taken that route many times before, on his way from the family home in Etobicoke. He might have known the hours of operation of the K. facility, and that no one would be around at that time of day.

I take it that the Ayr property was on well water, or had water trucked in. Either way, chemicals might be needed by individual land owners to treat water on a rural property, unless it is on a rural water co-op. There are other reasons to treat water, not just for drinking.

I'm also curious to hear evidence about which road the TB truck traveled on its way to Brantford: west on Wilson Street, or Highway 403.

The TB test drive was the only one done after dark, IIRC.
 
Snowglobe said:
AJ said he was also afraid for DM.
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I can't find a link for that particular quote from AJ's testimony. Perhaps you're generalizing what he said.

"I kept looking at that truck and thinking of that poor man and hoping [Millard] hasn't gotten himself into something," said Jennings.

"I was in shock," Jennings said from the witness box. "I went outside to my truck and I vomited. I was upset for everybody — for [Millard], for [my son-in-law] Shane, for my family, for everyone."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...ing-beyond-hope-it-wasn-t-the-truck-1.3433620
 
Alethea Dice said:
What they said was that both men got into TB's truck and drove out the driveway and that they had video of a vehicle (the Yukon) following them when they left. Hence why they were originally looking for a third suspect.
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That is correct but LE never said they had video evidence of a 3rd person or anything more than the SUV following TB's truck. MOO
 
sillybilly said:
I don't see anything coincidental about it. Brantford is enroute to both the airport and the farm, and if an employee happened to live in Brantford, it doesn't necessarily mean they have involvement in a crime that happened to be travelling through their city. JMO
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Agreed, but they allegedly went through downtown Brantford. Why not head straight north and bypass Brantford and the 403 altogether? I think the point being made is, why Brantford?
 
Snowglobe said:
He was as concerned for DM as he was for TB. He was so concerned that he vomited.

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/bl...red-belonged-to-missing-tim-bosma-trial-hears
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He was "concerned" for DM as he was for TB- which IMO is different than having "fear" for DM. He was fearful for himself and his family. Big difference. IMHO, he vomited because he had spent all day Tuesday watching the news of TB's disappearance-then he spent all day Wednesday looking at a truck sitting out in the hangar where he worked that looked identical to TB's truck- IMHO, he was sick because his fears were confirmed. I'd be throwing up too- only difference is I would have been driving down the road going 100 miles an hour while I was throwing up. MOO
 
Snowglobe said:
He was as concerned for DM as he was for TB. He was so concerned that he vomited.

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/bl...red-belonged-to-missing-tim-bosma-trial-hears
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Sure, he was concerned that DM was going to get life in prison, lose everything, and that SS and AJ themselves would lose their jobs, and SS's wife and AJ's daughter would have no income coming into their household.

If you knew that your son-in-law who supports your daughter is going to lose his job and sole means of support because his boss (who is also your boss) is a murderer...wouldn't you be upset at how much grief DM had caused in your life?
 
Alethea Dice said:
You're certainly entitled to your opinion, as is everyone. I think it is just as ridiculous to think that someone would have to work his way through a tight area or lean over the high part of the seat. He doesn't have to put his body though the space and there is plenty of room for his arm to go through by leaning forwards. If that were the case, it wouldn't be a "shot from behind". The back seat offers much more mobility and range than the driver's seat does.

Personally, what I don't understand is why some people have the tunnel vision that MS had no involvement other than driving the Yukon and waiting for a ride home.
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I'm not sure if everyone is familiar with Dodge Rams, but the space in between the front passages and driver seats is an armrest the size of a third seat, and in fact, if you flip the arm rest up, there is another seat with a seatbelt there.

If the driver were to shoot, first off, they would be at a disadvantage because they they are driving: have you ever sneezed while driving? Now imagine trying to keep a vehicle in the road while fighting the kickback of a gun. Also, how long are you confident in taking your eyes off the road for? Would you take a chance that the part of the road you choose to pull out your weapon on was going to have no distractions to take your eyes back off your intended victim? For some reason, I think that shooting someone requires looking at them without distractions for at least long enough to line up and aim. How far can you travel in that time without even glancing back at the road?

If this was something that they tried a dry run on the day before as some have suggested, wouldn't they have noticed this problem when driving with Igor? (Would you take your eyes off of Igor even for a split second to look back at the road if you had a gun on him? No, you'd be dead, and if that didn't occur to them the first time, it wasn't a dry run, it was a test drive.)

Secondly, they have a steering wheel in front of the them, getting in the way and hampering swift movement, and add that to the strange feeling you get driving a car when someone has moved your seat even a little. Thirdly, being left handed meant crossing over his own body, and not a lot of people would fire a gun sideways in front of their own chest and if he did, the steering wheel, instrument panel and his body would get most of the gun powder residue, not the ceiling of the cab.

Would you go into a life or death situation intending to use your non-dominate hand as your fighting hand? Indigo Montoya did, but he was ambidextrous and we have not heard that DM was ambidextrous, only that he is left handed. Would you want to possibly fight someone with your non-dominant hand while you drive, looking back and forth between the road and the victim?

And then where would DM have kept his gun? A holster is very noticeable under a tee shirt, and if it was in his pants he would have had a hard time getting it out and not hurting himself when he sat. Or, if the tenant somehow failed to notice that a man was wearing a purse in the country, DM would have to dig around for it in his purse while he was driving. Do the woman here dig in their purses with their dominate or non-dominate hands while they are driving, I wonder?
 
SnooperDuper said:
Sure, he was concerned that DM was going to get life in prison, lose everything, and that SS and AJ themselves would lose their jobs, and SS's wife and AJ's daughter would have no income coming into their household.

If you knew that your son-in-law who supports your daughter is going to lose his job and sole means of support because his boss (who is also your boss) is a murderer...wouldn't you be upset at how much grief DM had caused in your life?
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We don't know that SS was supporting his wife or what he was paid. She may well have had a job ! Either way we cant sleuth those two, other than follow up on witness testimony. We also don't know who AJ thought may have been responsible.
 
This man was scared. He said he didn't know what DM had gotten himself into. I think there is a bigger picture here.

It's hard to imagine him looking at that truck and not imagining the worst, if he saw it when it was still shot up and being sanitized. So why feel the same concern for TB as he did for DM? Why would the truck be in DM's hangar undergoing cleanup if DM wasn't involved? Why concern for DM if so?

Something's unexplained here. We'll find out, or not, at the trial.
 
Snowglobe said:
This man was scared. He said he didn't know what DM had gotten himself into. I think there is a bigger picture here.

It's hard to imagine him looking at that truck and not imagining the worst, if he saw it when it was still shot up and being sanitized. So why feel the same concern for TB as he did for DM? Why would the truck be in DM's hangar undergoing cleanup if DM wasn't involved? Why concern for DM if so?

Something's unexplained here. We'll find out, or not, at the trial.
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\

Because it was DM's hangar?
 
Juballee said:
I'm not sure if everyone is familiar with Dodge Rams, but the space in between the front passages and driver seats is an armrest the size of a third seat, and in fact, if you flip the arm rest up, there is another seat with a seatbelt there.

If the driver were to shoot, first off, they would be at a disadvantage because they they are driving: have you ever sneezed while driving? Now imagine trying to keep a vehicle in the road while fighting the kickback of a gun. Also, how long are you confident in taking your eyes off the road for? Would you take a chance that the part of the road you choose to pull out your weapon on was going to have no distractions to take your eyes back off your intended victim? For some reason, I think that shooting someone requires looking at them without distractions for at least long enough to line up and aim. How far can you travel in that time without even glancing back at the road?

If this was something that they tried a dry run on the day before as some have suggested, wouldn't they have noticed this problem when driving with Igor? (Would you take your eyes off of Igor even for a split second to look back at the road if you had a gun on him? No, you'd be dead, and if that didn't occur to them the first time, it wasn't a dry run, it was a test drive.)
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It's as simple as this: DM had control of the vehicle and could have stopped it and then shot. I am sure the last thing TB would expect is for DM to whip out a gun.

Juballee said:
Secondly, they have a steering wheel in front of the them, getting in the way and hampering swift movement, and add that to the strange feeling you get driving a car when someone has moved your seat even a little. Thirdly, being left handed meant crossing over his own body, and not a lot of people would fire a gun sideways in front of their own chest and if he did, the steering wheel, instrument panel and his body would get most of the gun powder residue, not the ceiling of the cab.
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No, residue would end up upwards and to the right (towards the back seat) and forwards (and as it dispersed, upwards) so the residue would have ended up where it was found: in the driver and passenger front seat area.

Juballee said:
Would you go into a life or death situation intending to use your non-dominate hand as your fighting hand? Indigo Montoya did, but he was ambidextrous and we have not heard that DM was ambidextrous, only that he is left handed. Would you want to possibly fight someone with your non-dominant hand while you drive, looking back and forth between the road and the victim?
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We're not talking hand-to-hand combat here, we're talking about DM with a gun vs. the unarmed, very surprised TB.

Juballee said:
And then where would DM have kept his gun? A holster is very noticeable under a tee shirt, and if it was in his pants he would have had a hard time getting it out and not hurting himself when he sat. Or, if the tenant somehow failed to notice that a man was wearing a purse in the country, DM would have to dig around for it in his purse while he was driving. Do the woman here dig in their purses with their dominate or non-dominate hands while they are driving, I wonder?
Click to expand...

Yes, there are two valid places where DM could have hidden the gun.
 
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