Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #1

[Alethea Dice]

Why make Ms into the murderer when he's not, though? <JMO>

Respectfully, we don't know that he's not the murderer. All we know at this point is that "The presence of gunshot residue indicated the firearm was shot at close range, inside the vehicle." And that the Crown claims that "Tim Bosma was killed in his truck, shot by the two accused in close range while on a test drive," Fraser said. "His body was incinerated hours later by the two accused."

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/02/01/dellen-millard-mark-smich-murder-trial-in-the-death-of-tim-bosma

http://london.ctvnews.ca/bosma-trial-hears-he-was-shot-in-truck-body-later-burned-1.2759657

 

[Tamarind]

Oh don't get me wrong. IMHO, MS is just as guilty as DM is and they're both justly charged. It was a team event. If you took either one out of the equation, the murder would not have happened. It took both of them to get the truck, murder TB & incinerate TB to conceal the crime. Also, just my observation, DM seldom operated solo. Thus the CN and SS connections. MOO

In my opinion,I think it's impossible to claim with any clarity that the situation would not have arisen without both present. Until we have the details of who dropped off and who may have met up it is impossible to say how any of it went down and therefore impossible to determine who was actively involved JMHO.

 

[Tamarind]

There is no evidence to suggest that Donut existed and no evidence to suggest a Tim Hortons was involved. That only came in the picture b/c the suspects said their friend dropped them off and went to TH. It's pretty clear they had some nefarious plan in mind so it would be doubtful they'd say TH if the plan involved a Tim's. Saying someone just went to Tim Hortons is just a believable thing for anyone in Ontario to say. There has been no evidence pointing to a Tim Hortons.....or a donut, really.

The police were the ones who gave the evidence pointing to a third party and a drop off vehicle, they claimed there was video of that too.IIRC

The fact that SB or WD indicated that they were dropped off by someone who was going to Tim Hortons means it is evidence via that witness, regardless of whether or not they were asked about it on the stand. The information must have come from either of those two people, as they are the ones who were there. We can't determine if its true or not as that factor has not been investigated at trial so far IMO

 

[Snowglobe]

LE said that the murder happened in the truck, close to home. Brantford is where the truck drove through and what happened there is still in question.
But as for a Brantford relevance, SS lives there.

Close to home could mean within walking distance of the Bosma home, but out of hearing range of SB, and nearby residences. Video time stamp of the vehicle following TB's truck will fill in that piece of the puzzle when it is entered as evidence.

Anything that hasn't been entered as evidence is still up in the air, of course.

I can't imagine why they'd risk driving down a 400-series Highway with a shot-out, bloody truck, though. It's more likely they got off the main road, out of view and closer to Ayr first, IMO. The sun sets at 8:28 p.m. on May 6.

 

[Tamarind]

LE said that the murder happened in the truck, close to home. Brantford is where the truck drove through and what happened there is still in question.
But as for a Brantford relevance, SS lives there.

I like to remember that the police were not present when this occurred so they can only allege where things took place. IMO. 'Brantford' has always been something that has given me an alarm bell for some reason.

 

[Tamarind]

I see DM as the leader and MS as his left hand man...yes, DM felt he needed to have an assistant (and shows a remarkable ability to delegate, too).

DM wouldn't have committed the crime without MS's support, but MS would not have committed the crime at all if he were paired with another person, IMO.

I think the trial will show little involvement by MS, except immoral support.

All opinions are valid. My opinion is that we haven't seen evidence to support any of that at this point.

 

[MsSherlock]

The police were the ones who gave the evidence pointing to a third party and a drop off vehicle, they claimed there was video of that too.IIRC

The fact that SB or WD indicated that they were dropped off by someone who was going to Tim Hortons means it is evidence via that witness, regardless of whether or not they were asked about it on the stand. The information must have come from either of those two people, as they are the ones who were there. We can't determine if its true or not as that factor has not been investigated at trial so far IMO

Can you please supply a link that LE had video evidence of a 3rd vehicle please? Thanks in advance.

 

[Gibson67]

I like to remember that the police were not present when this occurred so they can only allege where things took place. IMO. 'Brantford' has always been something that has given me an alarm bell for some reason.

yep me too I think the fact they went to Brantford it pretty coincidental

 

[Tamarind]

Can you please supply a link that LE had video evidence of a 3rd vehicle please? Thanks in advance.

Sure, here you go, HTH. My post said THIRD PARTY, not 3rd vehicle FWIW

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ird-suspect-in-bosma-killing/article12370401/

'Police say surveillance video captured images of Mr. Millard&#8217;s dark blue GMC Yukon SUV following Mr. Bosma&#8217;s 2007 Dodge Ram pickup truck on the evening of May 6,'

They didnt know what the vehicle was initially so it's interesting that later it became a Yukon.

http://www.thecragandcanyon.ca/2013/05/14/police-update-tim-bosma-case

'Kavanaugh said he believes Bosma was murdered at some point on May 6. Security footage obtained by detectives appears to show an "SUV-like vehicle" following Bosma's truck that night while he was on the test drive.'

 

[SnooperDuper]

Sure, here you go, HTH

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ird-suspect-in-bosma-killing/article12370401/

'Police say surveillance video captured images of Mr. Millard&#8217;s dark blue GMC Yukon SUV following Mr. Bosma&#8217;s 2007 Dodge Ram pickup truck on the evening of May 6,'

That's not a third vehicle, that's just the Yukon they came with.

 

[Gibson67]

Sure, here you go, HTH

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ird-suspect-in-bosma-killing/article12370401/

'Police say surveillance video captured images of Mr. Millard&#8217;s dark blue GMC Yukon SUV following Mr. Bosma&#8217;s 2007 Dodge Ram pickup truck on the evening of May 6,'

ok what if SS was in the yukon and had no idea what went on in the truck with DM and Smitch until they stopped in Brantford and at that point SS bailed and Smitch got in the Yukon..is SS going to be the BIG crown Witness? Did SS drop them off and then meet up with them? Is this why AJ was reluctant to go to LE when he knew it was Tim's truck?

 

[Tamarind]

That's not a third vehicle, that's just the Yukon they came with.

I never said a third vehicle, I said a THIRD PARTY.

HTH

 

[Alethea Dice]

Can you please supply a link that LE had video evidence of a 3rd vehicle please? Thanks in advance.

That's not a third vehicle, that's just the Yukon they came with.

Tamarind didn't say a third vehicle, only a third party.

The links have been posted many times, but here is another one. I don't see how MS could be following in the Yukon when they left the Bosma's, and yet still in the truck when the murder occurred. Until evidence is given showing how this happened, I will continue to have questions surrounding that point.

"Video evidence that we've now recovered shows that when Mr. Bosma's vehicle left his residence, there was a second vehicle following," Kavanagh said.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/tim-bosma-s-widow-says-i-am-broken-1.1324918

 

[Tamarind]

ok what if SS was in the yukon and had no idea what went on in the truck with DM and Smitch until they stopped in Brantford and at that point SS bailed and Smitch got in the Yukon..is SS going to be the BIG crown Witness? Did SS drop them off and then meet up with them? Is this why AJ was reluctant to go to LE when he knew it was Tim's truck?

Once a third party is added, there are many possibilities IMO. Anyone could have bailed. If the Yukon was DM's maybe he got into his own vehicle !

 

[Alethea Dice]

ok what if SS was in the yukon and had no idea what went on in the truck with DM and Smitch until they stopped in Brantford and at that point SS bailed and Smitch got in the Yukon..is SS going to be the BIG crown Witness? Did SS drop them off and then meet up with them? Is this why AJ was reluctant to go to LE when he knew it was Tim's truck?

That's two possibilities that could be considered. JMO

 

[Sillybilly]

yep me too I think the fact they went to Brantford it pretty coincidental

I don't see anything coincidental about it. Brantford is enroute to both the airport and the farm, and if an employee happened to live in Brantford, it doesn't necessarily mean they have involvement in a crime that happened to be travelling through their city. JMO

 

[MsSherlock]

I never said a third vehicle, I said a THIRD PARTY.

HTH

Third party and a "drop off vehicle". What LE had was a picture of a vehicle following TB's truck, which was later determined to be DM's Yukon. They never said they had video evidence of a third party or any other vehicle other than the Yukon. I don't want to get the facts confused here. IMHO, early on in the investigation, they knew that 2 men had been at TB's- they knew they had arrived on foot, so they assumed they had gotten dropped off. IMHO, once they took a look at the traffic cams they realized that there wasn't a "drop off" vehicle- only an "arrival vehicle". This was very early in TB's disappearance. So to clarify, IMHO, LE have never said they have "video evidence" of a 3rd party or "drop off" vehicle. MOO

 

[jash]

Yeah, his downhill turn seems to have started with the Baja race, losing his fiance, and starting up with CN. I wonder when he met MS and the car crew. Does anyone know?

I'm not sure about when he first met each of those guys but based on social media/public posts, DM was friends with AM since at least March 2009, was SS's "boss" since at least December 2010, and had MS over to his Etobicoke house around September 2011.

 

[Alethea Dice]

If this video isn't presented by the Crown, I would think the Defense would bring it up to potentially show that their specific client was not in the Bosma truck when the murder occurred. Maybe wishful thinking.

 

[Snowglobe]

ok what if SS was in the yukon and had no idea what went on in the truck with DM and Smitch until they stopped in Brantford and at that point SS bailed and Smitch got in the Yukon..is SS going to be the BIG crown Witness? Did SS drop them off and then meet up with them? Is this why AJ was reluctant to go to LE when he knew it was Tim's truck?

All we know so far is that AJ, a mature man, was sick to his stomach when he found out the truck belonged to TB. We know that he was so afraid for his family's safety that he decided not to tell Crime Stoppers the location of the truck until he talked to his family -- initially his wife and daughter, and then his son-in-law.

His son-in-law stormed off after AJ talked to him.

AJ said he was also afraid for DM.