Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #14

[redwing7225]

my brother once lifted a 219lb buck up onto the back of his half ton alone, he said he was only capable of this because of the adrenaline pumping through him, cuz he finally got the big buck, he was a fit lumber jack working in the bush at the time. I would have to say that DM would not have it in him to do it alone, a city boy smokin weed daily and absolutely no physical daily work routine, nope i just don't see it...moo

I'm with Just4TB on this one...
Personally, I'm a 5'2", 115lb LADY, whom in a bit of a "temper" shall I say, hoisted up my significant other and toss him over my shoulder and threw him on the ground. He is 6'5" tall and approx 190lbs.
IMO, mental state has a lot to do with capabilities.
For the record, I am just stating this to share that imo, it would be possible for DM to lift Tim himself. *scampering away now after this confession*
Bobcat use makes sense to me but it would be noisy at night and he neighbor is close by, was there reports of the neighbor hearing machinery?

 

[Inspector_North]

Ms had a long restful sleep afterwards and went back for more, helping DM the next day. Also does not fit with his alleged terrified, shocked state.

She says Millard was driving. She says the mood was "very happy. They were just very happy, saying that they wanted to celebrate ... they didn't tell me exactly what they were celebrating. They just said that the mission went well."
by Adam Carter 11:17 AM

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 2m2 minutes ago
Now remembers #Millard and #Smich saying they stole the truck. They used the words "mission complete" #Bosma

They were then dropped off at Smich's mother's house, she says.
by Adam Carter 11:51 AM

She says she was with Smich for most of the day on May 7, and they just did "regular stuff."
by Adam Carter 11:52 AM

She never mentioned him crashing immediately after being dropped off.

MOO

 

[mozzagirl]

What I find interesting is that previous witnesses were called liars and other things by posters on here, claiming they weren't truthful on the stand about things and time periods they explained.

Now that MS has taken the stand, these previous "liars" testimonies are being used against MS's to now say he must be lying because it is contrary to what they said.

So which is it? Were people like MM, MH, and BD liars or honest?

 

[Ontario Mom]

Re: MS and his bum shoulder - remember he testified he went to see a doctor about that on the 8th. I'm just going to assume this doctor likely gave him something for the pain. Which of course would allow him to hoist truck seats into a fire and other strenuous things, without using shoulder pain as an excuse.

Just a random thought that might explain a few things.

 

[SnooperDuper]

She says Millard was driving. She says the mood was "very happy. They were just very happy, saying that they wanted to celebrate ... they didn't tell me exactly what they were celebrating. They just said that the mission went well."
by Adam Carter 11:17 AM

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 2m2 minutes ago
Now remembers #Millard and #Smich saying they stole the truck. They used the words "mission complete" #Bosma

They were then dropped off at Smich's mother's house, she says.
by Adam Carter 11:51 AM

She says she was with Smich for most of the day on May 7, and they just did "regular stuff."
by Adam Carter 11:52 AM

She never mentioned him crashing immediately after being dropped off.

MOO

I was thinking of MS's own testimony:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...5-11-16-Day-47-Smich-Defence-commences/page41

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 3m3 minutes ago
"Dell said we got the truck. We proceeded to go to my mother's house. He said he'd be back to pick me up so we could move the incinerator."

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 3m3 minutes ago
Says Marlena was stressed out. DM told her he got the truck. We went to our mothers home. Went to sleep. @AM900CHML

Shannon Martin ‏@ShannonMartinTV 3m3 minutes ago Vaughan, Ontario
Smich glazed over this - saying only 'he tried to get as far away as possible' when it was in use #Bosma #HamOnt

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 3m3 minutes ago
"...so that we could move the incinerator. I ended up going to sleep." He says he didn't tell Marlena what had happened. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 3m3 minutes ago
Told Marlena they got the truck. Dell dropped him at his mom's. Dell said they would go back to hangar later to get Eliminator.

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 3m3 minutes ago
"I ended up going to sleep that day." Smich says he was exhausted, out of it. #TimBosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 3m3 minutes ago
"I was so exhausted, out of it, at that point." #Bosma

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 4m4 minutes ago
Smich said he slept and didn't tell Meneses about what happened. #Bosma

Peter Akman ‏@PeterAkmanCTV 4m4 minutes ago
Smich says he didn't tell his ex-gh Meneses about what happened. "I was so exhausted. I was out of it at that point." #Bosma @CTVNews

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 4m4 minutes ago
He says he then woke up, got in contact with Dell. Can't recall the exact conversation. #Bosma

Peter Akman ‏@PeterAkmanCTV 3m3 minutes ago
Smich says he didn't tell his ex-gf Meneses about what happened. "I was so exhausted. I was out of it at that point." #Bosma @CTVNews

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 4m4 minutes ago
Says his shoulder was still in pain when he woke. He contacted Dell. Doesn't remember the conversation"I was trying to, i guess, play along"

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 4m4 minutes ago
He didn't say much to Marlena. "I was so exhausted." Woke he was "still in pain" because of his shoulder. "I was trying to play along."

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 3m3 minutes ago
"I was trying to play along, I guess, like everything was alright," he says. #Bosma

By his account, he was exhausted, he crashed, he woke up and HE called DM, just itching for more I guess.

 

[matou]

Was there any blood found on Tim's phone? or GSR?

 

[deugirtni]

Not quite sure why allowing Tim to call his wife to tell her he would be later as the test drive is longer than anticipated, would be such a bad thing... It would have bought DM more time before LE was starting to look for Tim.... By Tim not answering his phone or responding to texts, that made Sharlene suspicious and worried, and the search began (cell phone records, etc.) merely hours after he left with the 2 men.

There has to be more to this story. MS has a lot of explaining to do on Monday during cross. The luminol lighting up the bed of the truck proves there was a lot of blood in the truck bed. How did that happen? Was Tim moved to the truck bed? Wouldn't that be difficult to do, with MS's shoulder injury? What if someone saw them moving a body? How would they explain that? And changing license plates? What if a cop drove by and saw that? What possible explanation would they give?

No GSR in the Yukon certainly sounds like the shooter was not in that vehicle as some GSR would have transferred with him.

Celebratory mood the next morning is contrary to MS testimony of being terrified, shocked, etc..... Don't think either of them would be able to pull off a "normal" mood the morning after this horrendous incident. Well, maybe DM could as he is a psycho, but MS strikes me as not that way.

JMO

I was wondering about the plates being changed. That suggests perhaps, that this *wasn't* just to be scoping out the vehicle with a return later to steal it, if DM had already obviously removed the plates from his red Ram and had them with him in the Yukon during the trip to Ancaster.

What happened to TB's plates? And his wedding ring? Would metal plates burn... or would they 'melt', or what would have happened to the plates if they had been burned at the temperatures the incinerator would have reached? Wouldn't there still be something left of them? If so, where did that go?

 

[SnooperDuper]

Was there any blood found on Tim's phone? or GSR?

The finder wiped bird poop off of it, I seem to remember. And then it was manhandled by a couple people, recharged, used...they didn't get anything off of it at all.

ETA:

Clark Kingswood, a private contractor cutting the lawn outside Kemira, a chemical company in Brantford, Ont., hopped off his mower to pick up a cellphone he spotted in the grass near the road and took it inside.

At Kemira, Elizabeth Rozwell took the Samsung phone, cleaned off dirt and bird droppings, and plugged it in to find out whose it was.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...-bosmas-cellphone-key-moments-in-murder-probe

 

[don_quixote]

I was wondering about the plates being changed. That suggests perhaps, that this *wasn't* just to be scoping out the vehicle with a return later to steal it, if DM had already obviously removed the plates from his red Ram and had them with him in the Yukon during the trip to Ancaster.

What happened to TB's plates? And his wedding ring? Would metal plates burn... or would they 'melt', or what would have happened to the plates if they had been burned at the temperatures the incinerator would have reached? Wouldn't there still be something left of them? If so, where did that go?

Yes, this is very important. Clearly implies planning by DM.

 

[RandomName479]

I'm with Just4TB on this one...
Personally, I'm a 5'2", 115lb LADY, whom in a bit of a "temper" shall I say, hoisted up my significant other and toss him over my shoulder and threw him on the ground. He is 6'5" tall and approx 190lbs.
IMO, mental state has a lot to do with capabilities.
For the record, I am just stating this to share that imo, it would be possible for DM to lift Tim himself. *scampering away now after this confession*
Bobcat use makes sense to me but it would be noisy at night and he neighbor is close by, was there reports of the neighbor hearing machinery?

Remind me to stay on your good side......

 

[matou]

The finder wiped bird poop off of it, I seem to remember. And then it was manhandled by a couple people, recharged, used...they didn't get anything off of it at all.

Hmmmm.. is it possible, given where the phone was found, that DM threw it out of the truck BEFORE TB was shot? Maybe he saw TB take his phone out to check something or message Sharlene and he grabbed it and threw it out of the truck?

 

[redheart]

What I find interesting is that previous witnesses were called liars and other things by posters on here, claiming they weren't truthful on the stand about things and time periods they explained.

Now that MS has taken the stand, these previous "liars" testimonies are being used against MS's to now say he must be lying because it is contrary to what they said.

So which is it? Were people like MM, MH, and BD liars or honest?

Personally, I think they've all lied on the stand to some extent - BD, MM, MH, AM. The trick now is to figure out what was a lie and what is truth. Same with MS' testimony. I'm not discarding ALL of the testimony from the people I think lied - I'm just weighing it, comparing it, thinking about the reasonableness of it. It's quite possible to believe parts of any or all of those testimonies and discard other parts. IMO

 

[Inspector_North]

What I find interesting is that previous witnesses were called liars and other things by posters on here, claiming they weren't truthful on the stand about things and time periods they explained.

Now that MS has taken the stand, these previous "liars" testimonies are being used against MS's to now say he must be lying because it is contrary to what they said.

So which is it? Were people like MM, MH, and BD liars or honest?

Not calling any of them truthful. Just pointing out the inconsistencies. You seem to be interpreting pointing out he said, she said as taking a side. The jury will be instructed by Judge Goodman on how to interpret all this evidence, including inconsistencies in testimony.

MOO

 

[Inspector_North]

Hmmmm.. is it possible, given where the phone was found, that DM threw it out of the truck BEFORE TB was shot? Maybe he saw TB take his phone out to check something or message Sharlene and he grabbed it and threw it out of the truck?

Which phone was he wiping down when they stopped according to MS?

MOO

 

[matou]

Which phone was he wiping down when they stopped according to MS?

MOO

I'm not sure but you made me wonder about what DM did with his burner phone? Dungey didn't ask Smich about that.

 

[Tealgrove]

Personally, I think they've all lied on the stand to some extent - BD, MM, MH, AM. The trick now is to figure out what was a lie and what is truth. Same with MS' testimony. I'm not discarding ALL of the testimony from the people I think lied - I'm just weighing it, comparing it, thinking about the reasonableness of it. It's quite possible to believe parts of any or all of those testimonies and discard other parts. IMO

That's what I've been saying all along. They are ALL lying to some extent and in between the lies they give you a bit of truth so long as it doesn't impact them. Then you have to go back, find all the bits of truth, get rid of what appears to be lies and piece it together.

We have been fed a bucket load of lies, half truths, half lies and CYA testimony to last a lifetime.

I guess the good news (to a degree), is that we can see these lies and figure it out. Hopefully the jury has the ability to do that too. I have faith.

 

[Mscree]

Yes the testimony about the changing of plates I found kind of shocking. Did they bring the plates with them everytime they scoped out a truck?

 

[SnooperDuper]

I think AJ, BD, MM, MH and AM were ultimately truthful. They may not have wanted to come out with their stories, but they did.

The LW's, SS, CN and MS have been untruthful and evasive, IMO.

I think IT laid it on thick. JV had a ridiculously complicated relationship with DM and we could have another 4-month trial just to figure out the finances between them, lol, but I think his testimony about events was honest.

My take, anyway.

 

[Tealgrove]

Yes the testimony about the changing of plates I found kind of shocking. Did they bring the plates with them everytime they scoped out a truck?

I think it's quite damning. It certainly helps to secure the fact that there was premeditation to steal the truck.

Actually it's somewhat amusing if you think about it. DM was worried about AM giving testimony that DM had told him he was going to steal a truck and tried desperately to find a way to get AM to change his testimony. At the end of the day, MS is the one he really had to worry about and (as far as we know), he didn't try to get to him. Treacherous Mark lived up to his moniker, in DM's eyes anyway.

MOO

 

[redheart]

I think AJ, BD, MM, MH and AM were ultimately truthful. They may not have wanted to come out with their stories, but they did.

The LW's, SS, CN and MS have been untruthful and evasive, IMO.

I think IT laid it on thick. JV had a ridiculously complicated relationship with DM and we could have another 4-month trial just to figure out the finances between them, lol, but I think his testimony about events was honest.

My take, anyway.

AJ, BD, MM, MH and AM were more truthful than the others, for sure. I still think they lied about a number of things, but it's easier to get the basic truth from their testimonies, IMO.