Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #14

[andreww]

The quick end to court proceedings yesterday was weird. If all they had was another 20 minutes or so of testimony why not finish it up on Wednesday? It hardly makes sense to drag the jury in for such a short period of time. IMO something was amiss. Not sure what, but something changed I think.

As for the gun and burying the gun, my first reaction was, "who buries a gun"? I found that "solution" to the problem bizarre to be honest. I know the thought has been that since MS wrapped it in duct tape prior to burying it indicated that he might go back for it. A reasonable idea but it wouldn't be what I would do.

That gun is the thing that ties me to the murder and I know it. I don't want anyone to ever find it. I would be just getting rid of it real quick. Bronte Creek, Sixteen Mile Creek, Lake Ontario for goodness sake! That gun would be at the bottom of some body of water and since I had options it would be my first thought.

What do I know? MOO

I agree, sealing it in duct tape suggests that he was at least considering retrieving it at some point. It would also suggest that he buried it somewhere that he knew he'd be able to find it again. So ask yourselves why he doesn't offer it to LE?

2 guns.

 

[JuneBug67]

In regards to the "struggle" I knew I wasn't going mad. It was said but not in the trial.

Also according to the source, police said after Bosma’s body was found that they believed he was killed in his truck following a struggle.
https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/..._man_was_killed_inside_truck_source_says.html

I would wonder what that unnamed source was, particularly very early in the investigation. Given what we know so far who would have or could have told a police source there was a struggle? At any rate, by trial the statement was "The Crown intends to prove that on this date in the late evening hours, Tim Bosma was killed in his truck, shot by the two accused at close range, while on a test drive with his truck; his body then incinerated hours later by the two accused."

 

[Errrr]

Snipped post for clarity.

I think letting Tim call Sharlene would have made her more suspicious and worried. If Tim knew he was in trouble and/or had seen the gun already, he most likely wouldn't have sounded like himself on the phone. Speaking from personal experience, I have known my husband for quite a few years and I can tell when he is ok and when he is "off" on the phone.

MOO.

Well, we know that TM didn't get to call anyone. How would DM know what he was doing with his phone if he saw him about to use it? TB didn't have to ask permission.

 

[andreww]

But if he's admitting to helping with cleanup - AATF, then he should be showing remorse for that part. (Of course I think he is guilty of much more than that, and likely only feels remorse that he was caught.)

I can't believe that Dungey would have made an obvious mistake, so there must be another reason.

Its been 3 years, he should only be caring about his own welfare. He should be angry at millard for getting him in to this. He should feel victimized and he should be scared. All those emotions should trump any guilt emotions because according to his story, he had nothing to do with TBs death.

 

[Errrr]

I'm with Just4TB on this one...
Personally, I'm a 5'2", 115lb LADY, whom in a bit of a "temper" shall I say, hoisted up my significant other and toss him over my shoulder and threw him on the ground. He is 6'5" tall and approx 190lbs.
IMO, mental state has a lot to do with capabilities.
For the record, I am just stating this to share that imo, it would be possible for DM to lift Tim himself. *scampering away now after this confession*
Bobcat use makes sense to me but it would be noisy at night and he neighbor is close by, was there reports of the neighbor hearing machinery?

Bobcat isn't all that noisy.
Live body is hellish different than dead one. Good way to prevent someone from lifting you up is to go completely floppy.

 

[andreww]

Bobcat isn't all that noisy.
Live body is hellish different than dead one. Good way to prevent someone from lifting you up is to go completely floppy.

Actually wouldn't be that hard for someone the size of Millard to lift TBs skinny body. Same way firefighters do it.

 

[Typhoo1961]

I'm not sure if they would have passed Kemira before the Bobcat or after as I'm terrible with geography and I don't know the area at all.

They would have passed Kemira twice. Going south, passed by Kemira which is right next to the railroad tracks, then they stopped a little way down the road at Bobcat and turned around (TB is dead at the point as we know from MS's testimony), heading north they would have crossed back over the RR tracks and passed Kemira again on the way to the farm. The phone could have been tossed either time.

 

[Tealgrove]

O/T somewhat.

I was watching the news the other night and they showed video of CN and her mother leaving court one day and I believe it was from the last day CN testified. She was all covered up as per usual.

What struck me about that video was her demeanor and how she was walking. It really grabbed my attention.

I saw this haughtiness in her body language. The way she walked and swayed her hips was almost conceited. I could feel the cockiness through the TV. CN really does believe she is something special. It was like she was pleased with herself. Smarmy was another word that came to mind.

MOO

 

[SnooperDuper]

Its been 3 years, he should only be caring about his own welfare. He should be angry at millard for getting him in to this. He should feel victimized and he should be scared. All those emotions should trump any guilt emotions because according to his story, he had nothing to do with TBs death.

I've debated you heartily in the past, but I think we are on the same page now.

I really agree with a lot of the things you have been posting lately.

 

[redwing7225]

Remind me to stay on your good side......

I truly am a "usual" good spirited, kind hearted person.
I stated those facts based upon my own experience to relay to others that based on my capabilities, I would think DM would be in a state of "rampage", an altered state of mind.
As Just4TB stated, adrenaline pumping, people manage to do remarkable things.
Wish we heard more about the removal of the bobcat.

 

[deugirtni]

Maybe TD will call the doctor to the stand to testify? MS would have to waive confidentiality I would think......

I'm trying to decide if I think TD will call any more witnesses......would have thought closing with MS would be the most impactful - so calling him first makes me question if others will even be called. On the other hand, opening strong and showing you have "nothing to hide" (there ya go RP/NS) could work in his favour.

I can see Arthur being called. Maybe a doctor. Is there anyone else that could potentially benefit/bolster MS's defense?

MOO

That would make sense (TD making a high impact by calling MS as the only and final witness for his defence), except that he knew it would be followed by cross examination by both RP and the Crown, which would reduce that impact, since both of those parties will be pointing out anything to show MS's guilt.. so perhaps it *would* make sense for TD to call upon witnesses to bolster MS's story once MS's testimony is completed.. such as like you mentioned, his doc, perhaps Arthur, and what about an expert who could opine that the shooter was in the front seat along with the victim? If he could find an expert to state that, that would have a lot of impact to leave with the jury in closing up?

 

[RandomName479]

I truly am a "usual" good spirited, kind hearted person.
I stated those facts based upon my own experience to relay to others that based on my capabilities, I would think DM would be in a state of "rampage", an altered state of mind.
As Just4TB stated, adrenaline pumping, people manage to do remarkable things.
Wish we heard more about the removal of the bobcat.

It's hard to know what your body is capable of or even how you will react to situations until it actually happens. I've been robbed a few times at work and I am surprised at how stupid I am. I know what to do, but it takes a moment before my brain kicks in and says "they have a gun, give them whatever they want".....

Stress does different things to different people. MOO

 

[Typhoo1961]

and what about an expert who could opine that the shooter was in the front seat along with the victim? If he could find an expert to state that, that would have a lot of impact to leave with the jury in closing up?

We've had that. It is in the testimony from the gunshot residue expert.

 

[redheart]

We've had that. It is in the testimony from the gunshot residue expert.

IIRC the expert said they couldn't say where the shooter was.

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/03/08/residue-cant-pinpoint-where-gun-fired-in-bosma-truck-expert

It’s highly likely the gun that killed Tim Bosma was fired inside his pickup truck, a gunshot residue analyst testified Tuesday.

“I have never seen that many particles of gunshot residue in a vehicle,” Dr. Robert Gerard told the first-degree murder trial of Dellen Millard, 30, and Mark Smich, 28.

When asked where the shot came from inside the truck, Gerard said he couldn’t pinpoint the exact location.

 

[mskrisc]

O/T somewhat.

I was watching the news the other night and they showed video of CN and her mother leaving court one day and I believe it was from the last day CN testified. She was all covered up as per usual.

What struck me about that video was her demeanor and how she was walking. It really grabbed my attention.

I saw this haughtiness in her body language. The way she walked and swayed her hips was almost conceited. I could feel the cockiness through the TV. CN really does believe she is something special. It was like she was pleased with herself. Smarmy was another word that came to mind.

MOO

Some time behind bars will do the Narcissistic little criminal good!

 

[Typhoo1961]

IIRC the expert said they couldn't say where the shooter was.

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/03/08/residue-cant-pinpoint-where-gun-fired-in-bosma-truck-expert

It’s highly likely the gun that killed Tim Bosma was fired inside his pickup truck, a gunshot residue analyst testified Tuesday.

“I have never seen that many particles of gunshot residue in a vehicle,” Dr. Robert Gerard told the first-degree murder trial of Dellen Millard, 30, and Mark Smich, 28.

When asked where the shot came from inside the truck, Gerard said he couldn’t pinpoint the exact location.

Maybe the expert could not pinpoint the exact location but if we are to believe MS's testimony he wasn't even in the RAM. That leaves DM and TB in the RAM driving south towards the Bobcat factory with MS driving behind the RAM. I'm inclined to believe that DM was driving from various testimonies and that doesn't put him in the back seat or running alongside the vehicle. We all know where TB was. It is obvious the shooting came from the driver's seat. If it was a snake it's so obvious it would bite you and that is my opinion..

 

[cckp72]

Some time behind bars will do the Narcissistic little criminal good!

I cannot wait ! Karma is a b@tch and she is going to get what is coming her way.

 

[redheart]

Maybe the expert could not pinpoint the exact location but if we are to believe MS's testimony he wasn't even in the RAM. That leaves DM and TB in the RAM driving south towards the Bobcat factory with MS driving behind the RAM. I'm inclined to believe that DM was driving from various testimonies and that doesn't put him in the back seat or running alongside the vehicle. We all know where TB was. It is obvious the shooting came from the driver's seat. If it was a snake it's so obvious it would bite you and that is my opinion..

I agree that DM most likely shot Tim, from the driver's seat. deugirtini was pointing out that it would be a good closing for Dungey to get an expert to assert that the shot came from the driver's seat. You said the expert testimony already said that, and I was pointing out that it in fact hadn't. I agree with deugirtini that it would definitely benefit Dungey/MS if they had an expert that would say that.

 

[brightii]

Its been 3 years, he should only be caring about his own welfare. He should be angry at millard for getting him in to this. He should feel victimized and he should be scared. All those emotions should trump any guilt emotions because according to his story, he had nothing to do with TBs death.

You bring up a great point IMO, one I've stated here before and my concern was dismissed. I do find it extremely odd that most of those who testified with the exception of DM's uncle have shown little to no animosity toward either accused for having done what they are accused of nor any obvious resentment or anger for the accused having involved them in their crimes, IMO. LW2 and CN showed a lot of anger and resentment, but curiously IMO it seemed to be misdirected towards police for the inconveniences suffered and not directed at DM who got them on LE's radar, IMO. You'd think they would all have behaved more like RB did, had they been truly shocked and sickened by the behaviours of the accused, IMO.

All MOO.

 

[palisadesk]

Some time behind bars will do the Narcissistic little criminal good!

Well, I dunno. She already testified she spent "four months of her life in a tiny little room" (jail) and it seemed only to increase her sense of entitlement and superiority, and give her something to feel aggrieved about - so now society "owes" her something. That's how she came across to me, anyway. But my perception was reinforced by the fact that some of the journalists present whom I quite respect also found her superciliousness off-putting, Clearly jail made not a dent in her inflated self-esteem.