Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #14

[andreww]

I believe you're right on target about 2 guns and the obvious reason why MS can't lead LE to where they are - buried or otherwise, IMO.

All MOO.

If I were LE I'd be grilling the hell out of Arthur this weekend and see if they can get him to admit seeing two guns.

 

[brightii]

If I were LE I'd be grilling the hell out of Arthur this weekend and see if they can get him to admit seeing two guns.

And with Arthur's mother present!

All MOO.

 

[RandomName479]

See my post above. IMO this is a very key piece of evidence that was kept from us. Is Smich lying and TB was shot in the field or was he shot at the Bobcat dealership like Smich says? It all rests on that sound and we are kept from hearing it.

Its BS I tells ya!

Friday rant over.

I'd have to look, but the only piece of evidence I remember the collective journalists agreeing not to release out of respect for the family was the incinerator lighting at the hangar.....or am I mis-remembering this? That being said I have never once seen the sausage/furniture picture.....was it actually entered into evidence? Seems to be hugely damning evidence against MS.....I would like to see it. MOO

 

[cansleuther]

I believe you're right on target about 2 guns and the obvious reason why MS can't lead LE to where they are - buried or otherwise, IMO.

All MOO.

Not to mention MS was searching online for 9mm ammunition just days before he was arrested.

A photo of a gun was also found on the Blackberry, while a Google search from May 18, 2013, for "rounds for 9mm" was found on the iPad.

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/national/tim-bosma-trial-dellen-millard-stole-for-the-thrill-of-it-friend-says/ar-BBrM0gX

 

[palisadesk]

I wonder why AJ doesn't speak with SS? Is it because of this case or did his daughter end her relationship with him?

I don't have time to go back and check the tweets at the moment, but I'm fairly certain that SS said during his testimony that he had not had any contact with AJ since the day that AJ was asked by DM to leave the hangar and take his stuff with him. That is strongly suggestive of the rupture being on account of the case. I interpreted it to mean that SS had more loyalty to DM than to family. He ought to be thanking his lucky stars that AJ did something (even if less than he should have): otherwise SS might be in the slammer with his buddy.

 

[JuneBug67]

I have missed the discussions on here this week because I've been attending the trial each day and then catching up at work during the evenings. Today I quickly skimmed through this week's threads and was shocked to find that so many people believe MS's story. I hope the jury isn't similarly fooled. His story, which conveniently removes him from the murder and the cleanup while pinning it all on DM, is extremely weak IMO. It contains numerous holes and fits awkwardly into the other evidence. What a liar this guy is. I'm looking forward to the Crown going up and ripping him to pieces next week. They will out his lies and make sure his true character -- a violent, evil killer who conspired with DM to murder the owner of a truck -- is revealed to all. JMO.

It's so interesting how different people see things differently. There was another person on a previous thread who says they were there for the first day of his testimony who found him credible and remorseful. It must be so tense in jury rooms sometimes when average people try to reconcile their views. Somehow in the end the mostly seem to get it right.

 

[Typhoo1961]

Its BS I tells ya!

I agree. I'd like to hear it myself in order to draw my own conclusions.

 

[ArianeEmory]

Not to mention MS was searching online for 9mm ammunition just days before he was arrested.



http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/national/tim-bosma-trial-dellen-millard-stole-for-the-thrill-of-it-friend-says/ar-BBrM0gX

I lost track of what day he's supposed to have hidden it, but I believe the Walther can take 9mm rounds. Meaning that's not proof of a second gun.

 

[andreww]

I don't have time to go back and check the tweets at the moment, but I'm fairly certain that SS said during his testimony that he had not had any contact with AJ since the day that AJ was asked by DM to leave the hangar and take his stuff with him. That is strongly suggestive of the rupture being on account of the case. I interpreted it to mean that SS had more loyalty to DM than to family. He ought to be thanking his lucky stars that AJ did something (even if less than he should have): otherwise SS might be in the slammer with his buddy.

SS should be in jail, they all should be for that matter. All those thefts? I guess the homicide department just couldn't be bothered with such trivial matters.

 

[JuneBug67]

I appreciate the discussion on journalists being the gatekeepers of public evidence and deciding when things are held back out of respect. As I was reading the board's thoughts it occurred to me that another problem with this is it unfairly weights the evidence against the defendant and assumes relevance. In any other context a pan of sausages is just a pan of sausages, but journalists here have decided these sausages are too dark, too painful, too terrible to dump into the culture, all before the jury has evaluated them in context and decided if they're damning or not. It doesn't impact a verdict of course, but it sure can impact a defendant in a high profile case upon release.

Editing to add that I'm assuming based on previous posts that the decision not to release the evidence photos was a media level decision. I don't know this for a fact.

 

[spanishshara]

The whole carding process came under fire a while back because police started carding young black men, seemingly without reason. It was quite obvious that they were making an effort to gather information on anybody that looked like they might be a criminal. Actually makes sense, but in this politically correct world its a no no. They never card average people like you and I, that would just bloat the system and make it less effective.

I respectfully disagree big time on this. It does not make sense and blaming it on the world being too politically correct is disingenuous IMO. People of color are 3 times more likely to be stopped by police. Many unfairly stopped who didn't even have a criminal record. I'm a TA at U of T and have heard many horror stories from students being stopped who did nothing wrong. There's been plenty of data and statistics to back up why it's wrong. i.e. https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...-to-be-carded-by-peel-police-than-whites.html

To say they never card people like you and I is factually incorrect. You should also take the time to read Desmond Cole's moving piece on the many times he's been stopped for doing nothing wrong. http://torontolife.com/city/life/skin-im-ive-interrogated-police-50-times-im-black/

I understand you may think carding makes sense and you're entitled to your opinion but it's also found to not even be effective - especially in relation to stopping gangs. https://nowtoronto.com/news/police-carding-racist-anti-black-and-useless/

There's quite a lot of empirical evidence to support the ban that happened.

 

[andreww]

I lost track of what day he's supposed to have hidden it, but I believe the Walther can take 9mm rounds. Meaning that's not proof of a second gun.

It does show that he probably didn't bury the guns before the May 14th surveillance started though. Not sure how he managed to do that while being watched?

 

[JuneBug67]

I'd have to look, but the only piece of evidence I remember the collective journalists agreeing not to release out of respect for the family was the incinerator lighting at the hangar.....or am I mis-remembering this? That being said I have never once seen the sausage/furniture picture.....was it actually entered into evidence? Seems to be hugely damning evidence against MS.....I would like to see it. MOO

I wish I could point to the source, but there was one article on that day's testimony that for me seemed so definitive about the meaning of those pictures because it listed four texts from MS that were sent in succession. The first and last were mission discussion and the middle two were the fireside furniture and pan of sausages photos. Their placement in the middle of the mission texts made it seem so clear that they could only be related to their discussion of their mission plans. It's a huge, huge, huge hurdle for MS to clear.

 

[Elisabeth]

Not to mention, you need the key for these trucks. It's possible to hot wire them but not by 2 dimwitts and is a very complicated task. Not something like DM and MS could do in the dark.

MS testified that they smashed windows to pop the hood on other vehicles. IMO, they smashed the windows to "try" and hot wire them and failed. So they needed the truck key, which means they need the driver. IMO, I believe DM intended all along to murder the truck owner to get that key! I also believe that AM knew this and that's why he told DM to F-off.

My recollection of MS's testimony is that he wasn't very specific why the previous attempts to steal a truck failed. Did he not gloss over this very fact you bring up perhaps? He mentioned something about the previous trucks having been moved but that seems a bit weak and non specific in my opinion

 

[MsSherlock]

No, it's not like that. I have chit-chatted to a lot of people on the board, and few have any sort of real connection to the case. E.g., my connection is the geography.

Very similar as well- geographical area with knowledge of aviation, real estate and farming I have absolutely no personal connection to the case.

 

[palisadesk]

If I were LE I'd be grilling the hell out of Arthur this weekend and see if they can get him to admit seeing two guns.

A couple of witnesses have made comments that led me to consider that it could be true that Arthur has an intellectual disability (the witnesses, MM and someone else, used more disparaging terms). If that is the case, it may explain why he has not been called as a witness. He would lack credibility and perhaps not meet the criteria for being sworn in.

Of course, MM and others may just have been insulting, but in general, a person with real intellectual limitations is not usually called as a witness, especially if he or she is a peripheral character. The SCC has ruled however that people with intellectual disabilities can not be excluded when their testimony (for example, re abuse) is vital to the interests of justice.

 

[andreww]

A couple of witnesses have made comments that led me to consider that it could be true that Arthur has an intellectual disability (the witnesses, MM and someone else, used more disparaging terms). If that is the case, it may explain why he has not been called as a witness. He would lack credibility and perhaps not meet the criteria for being sworn in.

Of course, MM and others may just have been insulting, but in general, a person with real intellectual limitations is not usually called as a witness, especially if he or she is a peripheral character. The SCC has ruled however that people with intellectual disabilities can not be excluded when their testimony (for example, re abuse) is vital to the interests of justice.

I didn't take it that way. If he was actually mentally handicapped I don't think MM would have spoken about him like that. I believe he was just an awkward idiot loser.

 

[tinkr]

Not sure if this is allowed as it doesn't completely relate to this case, so I will delete if not! I have always been sitting on the fence with MS. I feel there *could be* explanations for a lot of things including the sausages and fireside furniture text. A lot of times I wonder what my messages to my best friend could look like out of context. So I give the benefit of the doubt to those pics.

BUT, the thing that gets me (like lots of posters here), is the fact that he is also charged with 1st Degree Murder in the Laura Babcock trial. I know that this can't be used in determining his guilt in this case but it is definitely tough to put out of your mind. I wonder if anyone here knows whether MS was part of the Find Laura FB group? On a sidenote to this, recently digging around, it appears as though AM has a new tattoo with a picture of a girl that looks just like the Elle Ryan profile pic on his arm that says "I remember" - it will be interesting to see if he is a witness in the Laura Babcock murder trial.

 

[MsSherlock]

I wish I could point to the source, but there was one article on that day's testimony that for me seemed so definitive about the meaning of those pictures because it listed four texts from MS that were sent in succession. The first and last were mission discussion and the middle two were the fireside furniture and pan of sausages photos. Their placement in the middle of the mission texts made it seem so clear that they could only be related to their discussion of their mission plans. It's a huge, huge, huge hurdle for MS to clear.

Totally agree that these are major hurdles. I've been thinking about TD's strategy here. TD is definitely no stoop- he's fully aware that these texts and pics are really big to the Crowns case, yet he didn't address them or come up with some reason for their existence during his Examination in Chief. He addressed lot's of other stuff and I don't believe he would just let MS hang out to dry on these items- I do believe he would stick handled them himself or had MS explain them to him. Rather, I'm thinking that perhaps TD knows exactly what they pertain to and they may not be as damning as we think. I think we would be fooling ourselves to think that the Crown isn't thinking about the same thing. Lot's of pressure on the Crown to prove their case and I doubt that they're in the mood for any surprises; it's been long, exhausting trial. MOO

 

[mimimic]

Another stupid move. If the phone had been dumped somewhere else, LE likely would never have discovered the Bobcat dealership video.

Does the phone discovery announcement on the news land on the same day MS says he F'd up?