Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #16

[ABro]

And until the trial is over, we at Websleuths will keep on keeping on...sleuthing.

So you think the sleuthing will end with the verdict?

 

[cansleuther]

You are mistaken , forensics said no such thing .... it was the Georgia manufacture of the incinerator who said it had been used more than once .... and the judge interjected and told the jury to disregard it .... probably because of implications regarding the upcoming LB trial

SS's email to the supplier implies that he used the incinerator to test it out. Perhaps he tested out the incinerator without putting anything in it?

He added that the incinerator was “working great now. Sounds awesome when the afterburner kicks on!!”

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/accused-killers-employee-raved-about-awesome-15k-incinerator-he-bought-for-his-boss-bosma-trial-hears

 

[JuneBug67]

IMO, the missing SIM cards was brought up to show that MS was doing everything he could think of to erase all evidence of his own involvement before, during and after the test drive.

Yes, and it's understandable why an opposing lawyer would make that argument. It's not understandable though that this got converted to the idea that MS "wiped out his entire phone history by getting rid of his SIMs". That is almost certainly utter fiction.

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

Yes, and it's understandable why an opposing lawyer would make that argument. It's not understandable though that this got converted to the idea that MS "wiped out his entire phone history by getting rid of his SIMs". That is almost certainly utter fiction.

We know he's used his phones and no one has presented any information. He clearly deleted everything off his phones. Who knows if the SIM cards would have helped, but its just another point against MS being truthful.

 

[XiolaBlueX]

It could have been from a tarp etc. All items that could be part of the mission. Depending on the type of material incinerated, the cost for fuel can be higher than $25 for 100 pounds in a 500 pound propane unit. Not a device that makes garbage disposal economically feasible. $23,000 capital investment for the device, plus the cost of fuel and maintenance, this was not bought for garbage disposal. And according to RB, it was not bought as a business venture for pet cremation.

Anyone with other suggestions besides what it has been used for? The garbage purpose is a garbage excuse imo.

I can't think of any.

MOO

http://tammi.tamu.edu/Poultry-Incinerator-07-08.pdf

(BBM) Well sadly, if I recall correctly, LB went missing in June 2012, suspected already dead by LE beginning of July 2012.... Overlapping perfectly with when the incinerator was ordered and delivered. IMO it was not purchased one year prior to TBs disappearance in anticipation of that truck theft/robbery/murder, rather for an earlier 'problem' that DM was dealing with (LB). SS is extremely involved in that whole process. It remains to be seen with unreleased evidence how much MS may have known. In my opinion only.

 

[billandrew]

Is it not true that the photos and messages recovered from Smich's devices had all been deleted? And all the SIMs were lost or destroyed. So it seems he took all the steps to erase anything incriminating from his phone and chat history, apart from smashing the devices into bits and disposing of them.

 

[matou]

So you think the sleuthing will end with the verdict?

Sleuthing will always happen. And considering there are two other murders, sleuthing will happen.

 

[Arnie M]

SS's email to the supplier implies that he used the incinerator to test it out. Perhaps he tested out the incinerator without putting anything in it?

That is something different altogether , every new Eliminator has to be slowly brought up to full temperature to cure the firebrick , it is part of the assembly instructions , and nothing is to be incinerated while they do it. When the same manufacturer who built the unit and wrote those instructions gives his opinion it had been used more than once to incinerator something , I tend to believe him.

 

[Inspector_North]

Is it not true that the photos and messages recovered from Smich's devices had all been deleted? And all the SIMs were lost or destroyed. So it seems he took all the steps to erase anything incriminating from his phone and chat history, apart from smashing the devices into bits and disposing of them.

Fits his testimony. He did everything to remove himself from the murder and incineration. Nobody should doubt his street smarts ..... or memory of the events. We just didn't hear it.

MOO

 

[XiolaBlueX]

Didn't the police remove the stolen bobcat from the farm? I suspect they used the bobcat to load the incinerator. No chance a string bean like DM could ever lift 170 lbs. five feet off the ground by himself. So another lie by MS that DM lifted him by himself. Not a chance. MS likely helped DM place Tim's body into the bobcat's bucket. DM controlled the bobcat after that, with MS providing some help with positioning.

BBM
I saw MS testify to this question. He answered with something along the lines (paraphrasing) of DM being "much bigger", in better shape 3 years ago than he is now, that DM worked out and did "gymnastics" (?!) and had been "fully capable" of lifting/moving TB.

 

[ABro]

Is it not true that the photos and messages recovered from Smich's devices had all been deleted? And all the SIMs were lost or destroyed. So it seems he took all the steps to erase anything incriminating from his phone and chat history, apart from smashing the devices into bits and disposing of them.

More testimony on Smich getting rid of a phone:

Apr 21 2016 12:30 PM
She's holding a phone in one of these pictures. She says Smich got rid of that phone.
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Adam Carter

Apr 21 2016 12:31 PM
Millard was paying the bill for that phone, so once he was arrested the phone was cancelled. She says she thinks he kept the phone in a box at home.
Share
Adam Carter

Apr 21 2016 12:32 PM
The photos we're seeing are from May 14.

http://embed.scribblelive.com/Embed/v7.aspx?Id=2027439&Page=3&overlay=false

 

[JuneBug67]

We know he's used his phones and no one has presented any information. He clearly deleted everything off his phones. Who knows if the SIM cards would have helped, but its just another point against MS being truthful.

Everybody deleted all or some of their phone data, including witnesses. Key texts and photos were virtually all recovered from a deleted state. There is nothing in the record that suggests that SIM data played a role on any phone or that investigators needed them, or that anything MS did thwarted effective forensic analysis of his phones. That there is some untapped and forever lost data store on some SIM cards out there that would have further implicated MS is almost certainly utter crap, and that is fine tripping off the tongue of a defence attorney, but that's about the only place it belongs.

 

[hellkat2]

Re: the phones. Everyone is testing their sim cards with smart phones. Smart phones have lots of storage room for music/photos/messages etc. MS had a bunch of old non-smart phones that have very little memory so it isn't going to store messages after you delete them unless they get stuck on the sim card. Having old junky phones is a lot of the reason why they didn't get much of anything without a sim card. The black berry was the only semi-smart phone and it was also the only one they got anything off.

Good old Blackberry.

 

[Webulls]

Is it not true that the photos and messages recovered from Smich's devices had all been deleted? And all the SIMs were lost or destroyed. So it seems he took all the steps to erase anything incriminating from his phone and chat history, apart from smashing the devices into bits and disposing of them.

Ummm... not to mention that he lied through his teeth on the stand. Conveniently "forgot" all aspects that would incriminate him. An innocent man would have performed far differently on the stand than this liar...and murderer. MOO

 

[hellkat2]

It seems to "five finger" means to steal or rip off.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=five finger

I agree.

 

[Claroon]

And until the trial is over, we at Websleuths will keep on keeping on...sleuthing.

We will keep on for sure, and no amount of debating matters. Nothing we post will influence the jury. (Had a headache the other night over some endless points that were on repeat, repeat, repeat as though they were a desperate attempt to influence the jury.)

 

[Alethea Dice]

You are mistaken , forensics said no such thing .... it was the Georgia manufacture of the incinerator who said it had been used more than once .... and the judge interjected and told the jury to disregard it .... probably because of implications regarding the upcoming LB trial

The forensic anthropologist, Dr. Rogers, said there were a lot of remains missing and she thinks the incinerator had been cleaned out, which is all I said in my post. From MH's tweets, February 18 line 714:

There are a lot of remains that are not there, Rogers says, reminding the jury that bones don't "just disappear"
Rogers says she thinks the incinerator had been cleaned out.

I didn't say anything about forensics (or anyone else) saying it had been used more than once. I was asking for a link showing that forensics had said that "only human remains had ever been burned in the incinerator", as the OP had stated.

HTH

 

[Webulls]

BBM
I saw MS testify to this question. He answered with something along the lines (paraphrasing) of DM being "much bigger", in better shape 3 years ago than he is now, that DM worked out and did "gymnastics" (?!) and had been "fully capable" of lifting/moving TB.

But it's not true. Lifting a barbell is one thing...you've got control, proper grip, etc...and with good form, and being in good shape, one could easily bench or deadlift 170 lbs. Easy as pie. BUT...170 pounds of a murder victim, is an entirely different thing. And lifting it 5 feet above the ground to drop into a narrow chamber...there is no way DM is physically capable of doing that with his physique (even 3 years ago). Not a chance. Pick up a loose 45 pound plate, try and raise it over your head. Now imagine 4 of those in a duffle bag and picture yourself doing the same. DM is a former fat guy, who lost a bunch of weight, has close to zero lean mass and almost no muscle tone. He's a bean pole, not a power lifter. The only way Tim ends up in the incinerator is if MS helps him...either loading directly or using the bobcat. Likely the bobcat.

 

[Claroon]

So you think the sleuthing will end with the verdict?

It's the thing I do when I need a break from the outdoor heat. I'm on WS more than Facebook lately. I'm pretty sure the addiction will subside. I'd really like LE to make sure E. Glass wasn't poisoned or something, however. Her obit sounded sketchy. I could see DM wanting to get necessary possible obstructions out of the way of his inheritance.

 

[hellkat2]

The man who made the trip from Georgia, representing the Incinerator Company that produced the eliminator said on the stand that from looking at interior pictures that the incinerator had been used more than once. He was immediately shut down by the judge and the lawyers as I recall, and I think the jury was sent out. I think this is because it was used for the murder of LB, and we know that both DM and MS are also charged with that, and have to stand trial for it in the future. I agree, they both intended to kill, given all the BBQ talk, and we know they called the incinerator the BBQ. IMO

The reason I think suggesting that the suggestion that there was an attempt to restrain TB physically might imply that they did not intend to shoot him. Because to shoot him in the back would have been very easy for MS to do given his rear seat position in TB's truck. No warning and no reaction from TB with regards to defending himself would be likely. Therefore no unpredictable elements in their mission.