Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #16

[JuneBug67]

It's the weekend and we should all be telling each other to get off the computer and go outside. I'll start. CJPRINCESS, GO OUTSIDE!

 

[CJPRINCESS]

It's the weekend and we should all be telling each other to get off the computer and go outside. I'll start. CJPRINCESS, GO OUTSIDE!

Lol, I'm trying but WS's and SIM card research is distracting me but yes, I'm outta here to go and play with my horse

Enjoy the sunshine everyone

 

[billandrew]

I didn't realize this before, but it appears that the April 27 message "headed to Waterloo, figure out BBQ situation for this week" wasn't simply Millard telling Smich what he was up to that day, but it seems Millard was telling Smich what the two them would be doing together that day. Here is the full conversation:

S: wutchya sayin homes
M: eta 2:47
S: wuts good then? I'm chillin outside waiting for some ppl then Marlena's got work in a couple hours
M: headed to Waterloo, figure out BBQ situation for this week
S: k cuz then I need a lil bit before I can dip

During the Crown's cross-examination of Smich about this conversation, Molly Hayes tweeted the following:

Fraser is suggesting that Smich is going with Millard on this trip. Suggests there are no messages that suggest he's not. Smich agrees.

It seems they both traveled to Waterloo on this day to figure out the BBQ situation. The "eta 2:47" suggests Millard was going to meet Smich, and Smich's replies suggest that he's waiting for some people so he can't leave right away (he needs a lil bit before he can dip).

Smich argued that they were discussing plans for an actual barbecue (May 1 at Maple Gate), whereas the Crown argued they were checking on the incinerator. IIRC, the May 1 barbecue was planned between Millard and Michalski and was to have 5 guys and 10 girls. I cannot recall if anyone said whether Smich attended this barbecue or not, but it seems that Michalski was part of a different circle of friends (Bochenek, Kenny, Hagerman, Scullion, Ciufo, etc.) than Smich, with Millard being their main common connection at the time.

Later in the day (April 27), Millard was texting Schlatman to ask where the big generator was. Whether he was at the hangar or the farm, he was having difficulty finding it. We know that the generator was used with the incinerator: there is a photo from 2012 where the generator was mounted on the trailer of the incinerator, and there is a text from Millard to Schlatman about the generator being mounted on the trailer as well.

Did Millard and Smich go to the hangar, the farm, or both? Noudga claimed "Waterloo" was used in reference to both places, and they are technically both part of the Waterloo region (hangar in Breslau, farm in Ayr).

One way to tie all of this together: Millard and Smich went to check on the incinerator together on April 27. As Smich wrote the day before, "it's almost mission time". They were getting ready for fireworks.

 

[Claroon]

"Just" robbery does not appear to be enough in Canada. In the context of this crime it is forcible confinement that raises a death to first degree murder. I expect we will know much more after the judge's charge on how and for whom the jury can find forcible confinement within the law.

The high five seems quite benign, and actually kind of funny now that we've seen it. The fireside furniture still bothers me and I can't find that as definitively irrelevant. Both pics appear to come off the internet, the couch because it can be found in searches (try "bonfire furniture") and the stools because of the caption. The caption with its "fire pit seating" and "glow in the dark" remain somewhat chilling to me.

Yes, I'm pretty sure off the internet. Here is a link for the painted ones http://dornob.com/stump-seats-light-up-log-stools-turn-colorful-at-night/

 

[Inspector_North]

"The reason he had that Eliminator was to burn a human being, and he did that on May 6," Fraser says. Smich says Millard told him he was going to get into the pet cremation business.
by Adam Carter 12:10 PM

Fraser points out that Smich's girlfriend testified Millard said he bought it to burn farm animals -- which he didn't have. Smich says he didn't talk about it with her.
by Adam Carter 12:11 PM

Smich says he had never met Millard's uncle Robert Burns, who Millard said he was going to go into business with.
by Adam Carter 12:12 PM

Fraser says Burns wouldn't give Millard "the time of day."
by Adam Carter 12:13 PM

Smich says he never saw Millard try to use the Eliminator for pet cremation. Fraser says the only evidence of use for the Eliminator came from forensic teams. All they found was human remains. "That's the only thing that Eliminator was used for," Fraser says. "No sir, that's not correct," Smich says.
by Adam Carter 12:14 PM


And Smich not only calls AM, MH, CN and MM's testimony into question, but also says the forensic teams are not correct.

MOO

 

[Claroon]

-This graphic nature of this topic is not one that I chose to dwell on and yet this morning my mind was on it like a dog with a bone.
There is a school of thought that one man alone could not have moved the body into the incinerator because of size and weight and the distance of the lift. But the truth is, we have all seen the luminol photos of the tail gate and bed of TB's truck and we know that at some point in time his body had been deposited there. If the tailgate were lowered and the truck backed into position against the trailer/incinerator the lift distance would have been reduced by 3-4 feet making it more feasible that one person could have done it alone.
-During Smich's cross examination, I believe it was the Crown who introduced the issue or suggestion of TB's body having been repositioned while stopped at the Bobcat dealership....and IIRC there was no extended conversation or even suggestion of how the transfer from the passenger seat to the truck bed was accomplished and by how many men. Smich was not questioned or challenged on his possible involvement with the "repositioning". ( also somewhat swept over)
-At one point Smich testified that the body was wrapped in a sheet at the farm.......but it would seem more likely that it would have been wrapped at the Bobcat dealership to contain blood transfer onto the clothes of the accused or onto the Yukon where as we now know, no transfer was ever detected.
-And if Smich had been questioned about his part in the "repositioning" would he have resorted to the same 'bad shoulder' excuse or did he just do his part?
It seems that this is a case that just keeps on giving and giving food for more thoughts at every level. IMO

I suspected some of DM's questions to SS April 27 about the front-end loader and May 3 about the fork lift was him wondering how he would lift the body into the incinerator. The question about the fork lift was shortly after MS asked for an orange guy which we now know is Oxy for shoulder pain relief.

 

[Tilly23]

<snip>
Smich says he never saw Millard try to use the Eliminator for pet cremation. Fraser says the only evidence of use for the Eliminator came from forensic teams. All they found was human remains. "That's the only thing that Eliminator was used for," Fraser says. "No sir, that's not correct," Smich says.
by Adam Carter 12:14 PM


And Smich not only calls AM, MH, CN and MM's testimony into question, but also says the forensic teams are not correct.

MOO

RSBM

So, how would MS know that it was not correct?

MOO

 

[Claroon]

I didn't realize this before, but it appears that the April 27 message "headed to Waterloo, figure out BBQ situation for this week" wasn't simply Millard telling Smich what he was up to that day, but it seems Millard was telling Smich what the two them would be doing together that day. Here is the full conversation:

S: wutchya sayin homes
M: eta 2:47
S: wuts good then? I'm chillin outside waiting for some ppl then Marlena's got work in a couple hours
M: headed to Waterloo, figure out BBQ situation for this week
S: k cuz then I need a lil bit before I can dip

During the Crown's cross-examination of Smich about this conversation, Molly Hayes tweeted the following:

Fraser is suggesting that Smich is going with Millard on this trip. Suggests there are no messages that suggest he's not. Smich agrees.

It seems they both traveled to Waterloo on this day to figure out the BBQ situation. The "eta 2:47" suggests Millard was going to meet Smich, and Smich's replies suggest that he's waiting for some people so he can't leave right away (he needs a lil bit before he can dip).

Smich argued that they were discussing plans for an actual barbecue (May 1 at Maple Gate), whereas the Crown argued they were checking on the incinerator. IIRC, the May 1 barbecue was planned between Millard and Michalski and was to have 5 guys and 10 girls. I cannot recall if anyone said whether Smich attended this barbecue or not, but it seems that Michalski was part of a different circle of friends (Bochenek, Kenny, Hagerman, Scullion, Ciufo, etc.) than Smich, with Millard being their main common connection at the time.

Later in the day (April 27), Millard was texting Schlatman to ask where the big generator was. Whether he was at the hangar or the farm, he was having difficulty finding it. We know that the generator was used with the incinerator: there is a photo from 2012 where the generator was mounted on the trailer of the incinerator, and there is a text from Millard to Schlatman about the generator being mounted on the trailer as well.

Did Millard and Smich go to the hangar, the farm, or both? Noudga claimed "Waterloo" was used in reference to both places, and they are technically both part of the Waterloo region (hangar in Breslau, farm in Ayr).

One way to tie all of this together: Millard and Smich went to check on the incinerator together on April 27. As Smich wrote the day before, "it's almost mission time". They were getting ready for fireworks.

I think they went to both, April 27 DM "Millard texts Schlatman: "generator is not at farm." That makes me assume they looked there.

Also of interest is way back in Sept. "Millard texts Smich: "Let's reach Waterloo, pickup your girlfriend, move the BBQ into the barn (need some things..." (1/2)

and that was a week before discussing gun with IIsho, "Sep 12 ?? Millard and Isho text each other about a "3 eighty" with "beam's already it in."

 

[billandrew]

I suspected some of DM's questions to SS April 27 about the front-end loader and May 3 about the fork lift was him wondering how he would lift the body into the incinerator. The question about the fork lift was shortly after MS asked for an orange guy which we now know is Oxy for shoulder pain relief.

I'd say that's a fair inference re: the front end loader and/or forklift. Like all the other evidence, these messages could be totally innocent. However, they appear to be part of a running conversation involving the mission, the BBQ, the generator, etc.

The other thing is, assuming DM and MS were planning to kill and incinerate somebody, they wouldn't know ahead of time how much that person might weigh. If the victim ending up being 250 lbs, it would be extremely difficult -- especially with Smich's bad shoulder -- to manually lift their body up into the incinerator. It would make sense to have some type of machinery on standby to help them out.

 

[Inspector_North]

RSBM

So, how would MS know that it was not correct?
MOO

Exactly! He is sure about anything that does not show his involvement. Otherwise he can't recall.

Only an hour earlier he said this about the homemade incinerator .....

Millard to Smich: "We go do incinerator, cool?" Smich responds: "Yo, I'm down bro."
by Adam Carter 11:17 AM

This is at 10 p.m. Smich says he believes the incinerator was at the hangar.
by Adam Carter 11:17 AM

"You and Mr. Millard were planning. And that's part of the plan because you had the truck, and you had the gun, and you had the bullets, but you didn't have the incinerator. And now, you're trying to get that phase of the plan in place." Smich says "No, sir."
by Adam Carter 11:19 AM

"That is a year before you killed and burned Mr. Bosma. This is the plan, Mr. Smich," Smich says. "No sir, he said it was for garbage." Fraser says "So you're cool with leaving your house at 10 p.m. to go burn garbage?"
by Adam Carter 11:19 AM

Now from June 6, 2012. Smich texts Millard: "I'm lookin at a mobile one right now. Some chopping wood be necessary. It's called thermal treatment. The heat generated by incineration can be used to generate electric power."
by Adam Carter 11:21 AM

Fraser asks what SMich meant about "chopping would be necessary." Smich says he doesn't recall. "Dismemberment?" Fraser asks. "No sir," Smich says.
by Adam Carter 11:25 AM

If it was for garbage, why was the $23,000.00 replacement version not a garbage incinerator? There are many problems with burning household garbage in a biological waste incinerator. Need to ensure no spray cans, etc. are in the bags as small explosions will damage the insulation required to allow the burn chambers to reach the required temp for destroying biological waste properly.

MOO

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

Re: the phones. Everyone is testing their sim cards with smart phones. Smart phones have lots of storage room for music/photos/messages etc. MS had a bunch of old non-smart phones that have very little memory so it isn't going to store messages after you delete them unless they get stuck on the sim card. Having old junky phones is a lot of the reason why they didn't get much of anything without a sim card. The black berry was the only semi-smart phone and it was also the only one they got anything off.

 

[hellkat2]

You really have to read those letters well and not skim-read them. Alot of that crap was DM trying to get CN to tamper with witnesses. Example is one you stated above. He was trying to get CN to tell AM how he could change his testimony.

I was attempting to make an interpretation of "lies were told". It really does not require an example and should not have used the one I did. I know that there were several interviews with AM and other members of the gang of thieves by LE before 'truths" were told.

 

[Mikala]

This rings true to me. Bear with me for a moment and help me reason this out.....

Knowing that TD could not put MS on the stand and knowingly have him lie (ethically at least....and he seems like a straight up guy)....don't we have to assume MS's story on the stand is basically the same one he told TD 3 years ago?

And if that's the case, is there ever a reason a lawyer who believes his client to be innocent would advise them to keep their mouth shut, spend 3 years behind bars, and then only "come clean" on the witness stand?

If the client buried the gun(s), if the client was a drug dealer supplied by Isho, who also sold guns, if the co-accused was being investigated for two other possible murders, if the client needs to get drugs and alcohol out of their system, in order to be reasonably coherent, then I can see a lawyer giving this advice. There was virtually no possibility of bail anyway.

 

[Sphinx]

.

I am surprised someone hasn't noticed that the log furniture stools are painted CN's Rubiks Cube colors ..... red , green , yellow, and blue

Good catch Arnie ! It may not be a co:incidence. I have wondered for quite some time if CN was involved in the murder and disposal of LB's body -- jealous rival. Maybe this is MS's way of reminding DM or what to them are exciting memories. IMO

 

[JuneBug67]

Re: the phones. Everyone is testing their sim cards with smart phones. Smart phones have lots of storage room for music/photos/messages etc. MS had a bunch of old non-smart phones that have very little memory so it isn't going to store messages after you delete them unless they get stuck on the sim card. Having old junky phones is a lot of the reason why they didn't get much of anything without a sim card. The black berry was the only semi-smart phone and it was also the only one they got anything off.

There is a limit to how old the phones can be if they have SIM cards, and phones came standard with cameras for years before smart phones or even SIMs were standard, meaning phones have had internal storage for a long time in the relative history of phones. Older phones would mean less storage though, and the space deleted messages had taken on the internal storage would be more quickly overwritten with new ones.

 

[canadiangirl]

There is a limit to how old the phones can be if they have SIM cards, and phones came standard with cameras for years before smart phones or even SIMs were standard, meaning phones have had internal storage for a long time in the relative history of phones. Older phones would mean less storage though, and the space deleted messages had taken on the internal storage would be more quickly overwritten with new ones.

Funny that you posted this. Just the other night my older mom was saying she didn't want to buy a cell because it's too much money. But I worry about her when she's driving alone. So I said you can have my old flip phone, and get pay as you go. It has everything you need. Camera. Text. Calling.

Went to grab it. No removable SIM. All my texts are on it still through.

 

[JuneBug67]

Funny that you posted this. Just the other night my older mom was saying she didn't want to buy a cell because it's too much money. But I worry about her when she's driving alone. So I said you can have my old flip phone, and get pay as you go. It has everything you need. Camera. Text. Calling.

Went to grab it. No removable SIM. All my texts are on it still through.

I have an LG Lotus I just pulled out that I bought in early 2009. 2 megapixel camera - no SIM. SIM cards came with the advent of 3G networks, which means MS's phones cannot be ancient storageless relics.

 

[XiolaBlueX]

RSBM

So, how would MS know that it was not correct?

MOO

IIRC, 3 burned seat belt buckles were found in evidence also, suggesting that there were materials from the vehicle and perhaps other inorganic evidence as well (clothing, seat belts, truck materials) If so, how can LE/forensics declare that it has only been used for human remains? At the very least, even if DM had bought it with intention of using it for people (sorry, graphic thought), I would imagine that he would at least be 'testing it out' with other junk ( and perhaps other evidence of previous thefts, etc.)In my opinion only.

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

I have an LG Lotus I just pulled out that I bought in early 2009. 2 megapixel camera - no SIM. SIM cards came with the advent of 3G networks, which means MS's phones cannot be ancient storageless relics.

Do you need a sim card to have your phone connect to a network... Not sure?

I believe even way back you needed a sim on certain networks and others you didn't.

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

I can't find the photo of the phones, does anyone have it?