Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #16

[ABro]

Everybody discusses things and contributes to discussion on this forum in their own manner. I do not think that conspiratorial thinking is mutually exclusive from accepting recognized authorities evidence. I would think most people even the authorities apply a combination of the two in any investigation and trial. I like that you state your truth. I often have things removed for speaking mine because I forget that it does not relate directly to the trial Well forget sometimes, but other times just get off on a tangent. . But I accept that the forum person has what is affectionately referred to as the rules.

I have no problem at all with criticizing recognized authorities but that criticism should be based on facts and evidence not feelings and preconceived belief systems.

 

[canadiangirl]

What I'm trying to say is you can disregard any testimony you feel is unreliable. That leaves you with the people who had no reason to lie like IT, SB and RB who place them at the scene and the text messages that show planning.

Then you can consider MM and BD who have no connection or don't like DM and judge whether you believe them or not.

Everyone is heavily focused on how MS was there. Yes he was there. Yes he helped with the clean up. Yes he destroyed evidence.

What I'm not seeing is the evidence he knew of the plan and he forcibly confined Tim to justify a first degree murder charge. That is my opinion at this time.

 

[hellkat2]

a security feature where the engine will only start if the correct chip is detected, I think. You may not be able to get it out of park without the key either.

I have one and didn't even know this.

 

[Claroon]

One thing that seems to keep being a sticking point for me, that still gives me the tiniest bit of doubt about Smich's knowledge of the plan ahead of time, is the fact that he truly does seem like he's cleaned up his act and is a very different person now and I could see how someone in his position would only make the decision to testify because he felt the need to come clean about what happened, being overcome with guilt. But on the other hand, has he changed so much that he wouldn't tell half-truths to mostly cover his own *advertiser censored*? Is that even real change at all?
I'm like 95% on him. But the other 5% can see how it's possible he really wasn't expecting DM to do what he did.


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He presented as though he had cleaned up, then swore on the Bible to tell the truth, and then lied! Basically, IMO, spit on the Bible=not cleaned up enough. He's a con artist.

 

[Mscree]

That is an excellent question. How would they guarantee anonymity when they are writing cheques to people who report crimes.

You are given a case Id number there are no names invovled unless you choose to do so

 

[hellkat2]

I agree it was planned.

As for you not grasping the scoping fictional story, it's because you are not an accused facing first degree who needs desperately to attempt a plausible story that removes you from the most severe of charges. A story the aligns with much of the evidence the accused had the privilege to sit through.

DM through his legal team never confirmed the test drive was just a scoping mission. And I still believe that the conversation DM had with AM about IT's 'mission' being a failure on the 5th shows it to be more.

MS's lifestyle and his relationship with DM when combined with DM's weird world, created the evil atmosphere for a partnership in premeditated murder. DM was the 'big' planner, the 'big' dreamer, and the 'big' untouchable that these minions were reluctant to 2nd guess. DM took innocent minions to be involved in theft missions, and he took MS, a minion with a lengthy criminal record to the next level, premeditated murder.

There is much more to this horror story, and once all charges still working their way through the courts is complete, it will be even that more difficult to grasp.

MOO

I am hoping that once all charges have been addressed and the court processes that bring them to conviction happen that it will be clearer to grasp the overall picture and to fill in the gaps that are evident currently. I wish this for the Bosmas.

 

[Mscree]

Everyone is heavily focused on how MS was there. Yes he was there. Yes he helped with the clean up. Yes he destroyed evidence.

What I'm not seeing is the evidence he knew of the plan and he forcibly confined Tim to justify a first degree murder charge. That is my opinion at this time.

I guess it goes to perception I see a lot of evidence pointing to him being aware. The fact I find quite disturbing is if we go by what smich says he knew nothing how do you go home after that and lay your head down and sleep like nothing happened?

 

[canadiangirl]

Wasn't that hagerman? I could be wrong but I thought that was hagerman

You're correct it was Hagerman. AM gave 2
http://m.thespec.com/news-story/645...n-as-he-recounts-lies-to-police-about-toolbox

 

[hellkat2]

Seriously? This is the same guy, just nicer clothes and a decent haircut. He just spent nine days on the stand lying his *advertiser censored* off, he's never showed any remorse whatsoever, and he is still uncooperative in helping the police find the gun. Smich is every bit as dangerous as Delon Millard, don't kid yourself.

But no xbox, no tv, no skateboard, no cadillac, no ipad, no more rap videos....and in my opinion MS and DM are getting angry at all the privileges they have had taken away as a result of their own behaviour and are turning on each other..

 

[hellkat2]

Paraphrasing from yesterday...

Fraser: You met with Millard for 50 minutes, what did you talk about?

Smich: I don't remember

Fraser: You talked about hiding the guns and drugs!

Smich: Thats not true.


So how would Smich know that they didn't talk about the guns and drugs if he didn't remember the conversation? :thinking:

If this was not such a serious proceeding Smich's selective memory is so classic that any LE would find it comical.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

The mother of a two-year-old said the way she was forced to say goodbye to her husband fills her with rage, particularly when she considers her nightmare began with a truck that wasn't even "a good one."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/sharlene-bosma-speaks-out-about-husband-s-murder-1.1367044

"In 18 months I think we spent over $10,000 in repairs. It was a lemon!" she said. "It makes me angry. And I don't understand."

Very good, they (DM/MS) got caught very quickly but what a shame they didn't get caught in a police patrol when the "lemon" just conked out, towing a big trailer to Mexico or similar.

 

[canadiangirl]

I guess it goes to perception I see a lot of evidence pointing to him being aware. The fact I find quite disturbing is if we go by what smich says he knew nothing how do you go home after that and lay your head down and sleep like nothing happened?

I don't see it because the key points for example are, MS searched for a truck on auto trader. So did AM and he was aware. They are saying MS searched for incinerator. SS built one for DM. SS has texts with DM about if the generator is at the farm prior to this. MS isn't the only one who was aware DM had a gun IIRC. They took pictures with it. I have seen reasonable doubt right now for first degree. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything otherwise. I'm just not there with MS.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I don*t know how others here on WS do but my thread is showing blank places (above the advertising, below the advertising - it changes constantly) and seems to be not very functional .... This new thread more than the thread before.

 

[Mscree]

I don't see it because the key points for example are, MS searched for a truck on auto trader. So did AM and he was aware. They are saying MS searched for incinerator. SS built one for DM. SS has texts with DM about if the generator is at the farm prior to this. MS isn't the only one who was aware DM had a gun IIRC. They took pictures with it. I have seen reasonable doubt right now for first degree. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything otherwise. I'm just not there with MS.

He wasn't on garbage duty. In fact millards own lawyer said dm disposes of his own garbage. So why would ms be researching incinerators. He did odd jobs at the hanger? I don't remember am searching as well only that he was aware. Again I could be wrong. Ms getting excited about fire works? The texts between the two. The year of planning. Why act all sketchy cover your face and everything if you were just going for a test drive and returning later under the cover of darkness?

 

[Claroon]

The lack of recollection regarding the gun is the real sticking point for me. I wish he'd given them something more to go on, but the story that he was completely out of it when it happened is definitely plausible, which is what bugs me. It's very clear he was coached, and well, and those "I don't recalls" are a big part of it, because if there are things he only half-remembers, it's safer to say he doesn't recall rather than give the cross-examiner a chance to dig in on a "well, I seem to recall..." It's one thing to catch him in a lie, but it's quite another to trip someone up and make them look guilty just because they worded something awkwardly.

I won't feel dissatisfied at all if he's convicted, but I also won't blame the jury if they can't decide on a 1st degree conviction for him. Don't get me wrong, I'm mostly on board with his guilt, there's just a small part of me that's not 100% certain, and maybe that's just because I have the certainty I feel about DM to compare it to.

bbm - and it could merely be because you are a compassionate and empathetic person who sees the best in people.

 

[canadiangirl]

He wasn't on garbage duty. In fact millards own lawyer said dm disposes of his own garbage. So why would ms be researching incinerators. He did odd jobs at the hanger? I don't remember am searching as well only that he was aware. Again I could be wrong. Ms getting excited about fire works? The texts between the two. The year of planning. Why act all sketchy cover your face and everything if you were just going for a test drive and returning later under the cover of darkness?

SS built DM an incinerator? Why? Possible the same reason why MS was looking at incinerators. SS actually purchased the incinerator that burned Tim's body. Does it mean he knew the "plan"? When asked who was there or knew about the truck theft. They ALL did AM. MM. DM. LW. Some random girl. Everyone knew about this year long truck plan. It wasn't just MS. Did they all know the details that a murder was being planned? I'm not sure how we can say one person (MS), knew about everything but everyone else who was involved knew nothing. Doesn't add up for me.

The fireworks text I've never focused on. Many have. Ever hear some say.. "It's show time!" I take that text to mean the same thing and in relation to the theft itself.

Acting sketchy is likely because he's known to police with priors. People don't ask why DM was not hiding anything and acting" normal" persay. I attribute that to, DM knew the plan and knew TB wouldn't be coming back alive so no worries. He wasn't the one with a police record. Police wouldn't suspect him anyways. MS' demeanor can be explained because of the plan to steal. Doesn't take a rocket science to figure out who stole it when it goes missing later. And he's known by police. Most recently was the graffiti charge with Arthur.
IMO

 

[torontoguy31]

Yes there is ways but not for two dimwits in the dark. The chip/SKIM key vehicles are not 100% theft proof but makes it tougher for the non-pro car theives to steal.

true, but a few things i've read say u can at least get the vehicle out of park....but we don't know what their plan or what MS says their original plan was supposed to be. Doesn't matter really I guess at this point.

 

[Claroon]

This is all after the fact stuff. It doesn't show premeditation for murder IMO

I think the poster is pointing out MS's character and ability to attempt to cover his tracks.

 

[Claroon]

Since AJ was up on the news reports, his call into CS, and his evidence complete with photo and VIN number, may have been the main tie in had the tattoo not been noticed. Fortunately, that was merely a few days later too.

Knowing what he did do speaks for his character IMO and I believe no matter if police had shown up or not, he would have done the right thing.

MY OPINION.

 

[Mscree]

SS built DM an incinerator? Why? Possible the same reason why MS was looking at incinerators. SS actually purchased it. Does it mean he knew the "plan"? When asked who was there or knew about the truck theft. They ALL did AM. MM. DM. LW. Some random girl. Everyone knew about this year long truck plan. It wasn't just MS. Did they all know the details that a murder was being planned? I'm not sure how we can say one person (MS), knew about everything but everyone else who was involved knew nothing. Doesn't add up for me

The fireworks text I've never focused on. Many have. Ever hear some say.. "It's show time!" I take that text to mean the same thing and in relation to the theft itself.

Acting sketchy is likely because he's known to police with priors. People don't ask why DM was not hiding anything and acting" normal" persay. I attribute that to, DM knew the plan and knew TB wouldn't be coming back alive so no worries. He wasn't the one with a police record. Police wouldn't suspect him anyways. MS demeanor for a theft simple. If he's showing his face then going back to steal a truck. Doesn't take a rocket science to figure out who stole it. And he's know by police. Most recently was the graffiti charge with Arthur.
IMO

Sorry I disagree. Ms had nothing to do with the day to day operations. It's not like ss and ms built the homemade thing. So why is he doing research? why is he going to give it a test run? You also said Am helped search for a truck, not that he was aware. The communication between them. I see first degree. I trust the jury will as well. Smich had more time to conveniently get rid of things